A Missing Kid Story

[Green Tea]

And I'll ALWAYS believe that if this had happened on any other cruise line, most of the people here who are calling this man a liar and a money-grubbing jerk would instead be rallying behind him.

I completely think if this had been on Carnival that we would have had 20 pages of people saying it was to be expected that they would lose a kid, and the you get what you pay for comments, and the maybe the kid was hiding because of bad people being employees in the kid's area.

 

[bellebud]

the 'tunnel of stacked chairs' is the main thing I don't like about the story.

That seems pretty unsafe for a room that lots of 3yo's are in, somewhat unsupervised.

How many other areas are there in the room that a kid, or kids, could be totally alone, with no one able to see what they're doing, or even know they're in there? That's certainly not a place I'd drop off my child, especially so young.

Not a good job on Disney's part of having a 'safe' area for 3yo's.

 

[tgropp]

Disney has never offered refunds on cruises unless it's a major act of God and the cruise can't sail at all, even then they usually only offer to reschedule, so I'm not surprised he didn't get a refund, they did try and offer a couple of passes to the parks, so it's not like they ignored him, honestly, he panicked, didn't understand their lost child process, and wanted the world.[/QUOTE]


OMG. are you serious. A child is missing for 45 minutes and you accuse a parent of panicking and wanting the world. Give your head a shake! Do you people realize that when you leave a child with Disney daycare or ANYONES daycare that you are paying for, that you EXPECT your child to be there when it is time to pick the child up. I can not believe that people think that this is acceptable!!!

 

[neg58]

Never... I would most likely not use their services again/or not go there again ...but I don't actually try to get something for free. I mean a refund for an entire cruise because of something that happened with the 'Free" childcare?

My kids are older, but if I put them in a setting like that. I set some ground rules, don't go off by yourself, stay with the group, here is a code word we will use don't leave with anyone unless they know our special word. I also would require my older child to stay with my younger. yeah yeah I know..mean mommy.

Maybe I just lack trust...but they would have to be old enough/responsible enough in order to understand those rules before I would leave them there,

People have to use some common sense and judgment too. Even though you are paying for child care/club as part of the cruise, you are not paying for individual care, individual supervision. Some stores (IKEA) have a drop off for kids. Do you really feel it is as safe as the day care you selected for your kids after looking at and interviewing 20? Do you think there is going to be direct supervision for every second? DCL says that kids are allowed to move freely around the club/lab, and that's what happens.

I used to be a small claims court judge. You can't believe the extent of my knowledge about dry cleaners because every third case was about dry cleaning (another third about cement pouring, and the final third everything else in the universe). People would have suits and dresses and drapes ruined by dry cleaners and want the full value of the 10 year old suit or a new living room set to match the new curtains. One time someone took a beaded dress, a $600 vintage dress, to a bulk dry cleaner and all the beads came off in the BULK cleaning process. The explanation by the dress owner? The girl at the counter said it would be fine. Really? The 16 year old took your $3 and said it would be okay? Common sense.

DCL offers a service that is great, fine, wonderful for most kids. Most kids don't fall asleep, most don't try to escape. But they never promised direct supervision and the fact that the bracelet malfunctioned is not a security threat or child endangerment because they have the back up check of requiring a KTTW card to check out. You have to decide if your child will be safe, just like you'd have to decide if your child is safe at the drop in child care at IKEA, or a grocery store, or the $5/hr place at the mall. There is a standard that they have to meet like background checks and safety features for the area, but if no harm comes to the child I think it would be hard to show they didn't meet that minimum standard. Now YOU can set a much higher standard (and most of us do) and if they don't meet that standard, don't send your kids to the clubs. That may mean that cruising is not for you since the club is the only type of child care offered (DLC doesn't offer in-room sitters like they do at the resorts).

This story should be taken to heart by all parents. Do you think this level of care (200 or more kids in an open flow space, ages 3-12, probably more than 20 kids per cast member) is a good fit for your family? Can you accept that it may take 15 or more minutes to find your child at pick up? Can your child speak up for himself? If the answers are No, don't leave your child. You can't change what is offered, and what is offered is group child care. It is what it is.

Nancy

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Earlier in this thread, when I used a commonly repeated quote (without naming the person who says it often) you told me that it was a LOW BLOW.


Remember now, that while you're pointing that one finger at someone, three others are pointed right back at YOU.

That qoute was used to say the same thing as *Cheerleader*. It is my qoute. I have proved to you and others, many times, I am no cheerleader and I dont beleive most here are.

I do object to people wandering in and saying *ho the Cheerleader are out or the apploizists are out.....the same I object to people wandering and saying *disney hater*

AKK

AKK

 

[KappaSigHero]

Me? Where?

Maybe I'm just making an ASSUMPTION about your intent.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I completely think if this had been on Carnival that we would have had 20 pages of people saying it was to be expected that they would lose a kid, and the you get what you pay for comments, and the maybe the kid was hiding because of bad people being employees in the kid's area.

Thats hog wash and a fairy tale and you now it!.....just another way of saying *cheerleader*


AKK

 

[justmestace]

This story should be taken to heart by all parents. Do you think this level of care (200 or more kids in an open flow space, ages 3-12, probably more than 20 kids per cast member) is a good fit for your family? Can you accept that it may take 15 or more minutes to find your child at pick up? Can your child speak up for himself? If the answers are No, don't leave your child. You can't change what is offered, and what is offered is group child care. It is what it is.

Nancy

I think what some people are hoping is that if this has happened before, and according to a few posters it has, then maybe the ships will decide to adjust their system somewhat, IF enough people talk about it....i.e. complain.

Wow....what a tough job....judge. Seriously! I wouldn't have the patience to listen to that all day. But I have to say, if a person working at the dry cleaner said they could do it, I'd trust them. I've taken items to a high-end cleaner, and had bad results, too...so it isn't always a matter of high/low.

Lucky you came out of the courtroom with your sanity!

 

[manhattanman]

That qoute was used to say the same thing as *Cheerleader*. It is my qoute. I have proved to you and others, many times, I am no cheerleader and I dont beleive most here are.

I do object to people wandering in and saying *ho the Cheerleader are out or the apploizists are out.....the same I object to people wandering and saying *disney hater*

AKK

AKK

a kid was missing for 45 minutes, and there were plenty of people who were casting aspersions on the father's motives or thruthfulness. How is that not being an apologist ?

It might not have been you, but a cursory look at this thread and there is ample evidence of people seemingly willing to carry water for disney.

If acknowledging that a massive global company like disney can and does occasionally make mistakes makes me a "disney hater" that's a cross I'm willing to bear.

 

[justmestace]

Changed my mind about post. Backing away. This thing's probably closing soon.

 

[KappaSigHero]

I think what some people are hoping is that if this has happened before, and according to a few posters it has, then maybe the ships will decide to adjust their system somewhat, IF enough people talk about it....i.e. complain.

Hopefully what the CD told the dad is followed through and they do review, learn, and train staff based on what they learn. That's the best case scenario.

 

[KappaSigHero]

a kid was missing for 45 minutes, and there were plenty of people who were casting aspersions on the father's motives or thruthfulness. How is that not being an apologist ?

It might not have been you, but a cursory look at this thread and there is ample evidence of people seemingly willing to carry water for disney.

If acknowledging that a massive global company like disney can and does occasionally make mistakes makes me a "disney hater" that's a cross I'm willing to bear.

Just my perspective, but you've been fair and reasonable even with those you disagree with. Not what I would call a hater.

 

[tinkerone]

You weren't slow on the uptake, at this point, it would take all day to read the whole thing.

I think that the dad wouldn't have even blogged about it....or maybe not been AS upset in his blog, if they'd had the Captain stop by on his wife's birthday like they said they would, or if they'd shown a little more compassion. At least, that's what I take away from it all.

Like I said in my very first post on here, when I had my accident (caused by a careless CM) I fully trusted the cruise line (and it doesn't matter AT ALL whether it was Disney or not)...I fully trusted the CM's onboard when they told me that the people shoreside would work with me to give me some kind of compensation. Further medical bills at home, whatever.
And it was the cruise director, the hotel director and the head of security onboard, who ALL told me the same thing. I love DCL...obviously, since I'm going to take cruise number 13 (or is it 14?) next year. I BELIEVED them when they said they'd take care of me. I honestly thought I had a reasonably close friendship with the CD onboard.
And I was devastated when I got home and the shoreside person told me "TOUGH LUCK TOOTS".

I did not post the story on here...what happened to me.....and I don't have a blog, so I didn't post it online anywhere. I've only recently mentioned it because it backs up a few things that people don't seem to understand....and maybe it will help someone in the future.

But I have to say, I DO believe this dad, because of what happened to me. And I totally understand how frustrated he is about the fact that while they basically patronized him onboard with promises of compensation once back home, he didn't even get an apology, or the acknowlegement that there might have been a malfunction of the bracelet, or the reassurance that they'd do their best to "fix" the problem. He was simpy shooed away like an annoying fly.
I've been there. I know that feeling. And it makes no difference what cruise line it is. I said that from the start.

But then everyone comes along not believing, calling the man greedy, saying he's lying or over-reacting....and it makes me upset, because if it did happen on one of the other cruise lines, there'd be very few DISers who would doubt the story. THAT'S the part that upsets me.

So if no one saw it in writing, then it must be ASSUMED that he wanted to do this???? You know what they say about assuming things.......except leave me out of it.

I don't think it was snarky and didn't mean it to be. I'm saying that there's been a lot tossed out here that the man never really said. And if he didn't really post it in his blog, why are people saying things that he never said? That's assuming.
I think what he said in his blog was very clear. Multiple times, he very clearly posted what he was thinking and what he had expected. He used bullets, even...or whatever those are called.

Why would it be HIS FAULT if people don't understand him, or didn't read it all?

quote from his blog.....

I mentioned that we had a dinner reservation for her birthday, and I thought to myself that maybe the Cruise Director or the Captain might come by to wish her a happy birthday and apologize to her in person. At least to show that they do value their customers and that truly cared for what had happened to us.
note he did not say that they said they would come as your post does.

sometimes people get it wrong. you have as well. I may have, who knows. what we read can be, and often is, subjective. lets agree that dcl should look at their policies however I will not agree that we should know everything that goes on when something like this happens. I will never believe there isn't a protocol for lost children. it would be nice if I knew what it was but if I know than the 'bad guy' knows as well. it could be not so good if everyone knew what 'green from is missing' meant. in saying that, i'm not sure Disney did not do exactly what they were supposed to. in saying that i'm not sure the man did or did not just hear what he wanted to. he admits to being upset and we both know when your upset, really upset, you don't 'hear' everything.
I don't hate dcl, sorry. I do say they should look into what happened but I don't think they are wrong. nor do I say the family is wrong.
looking at what he wrote I (jmo) do not think it was an issue that ruined their holiday. put a damper on it for sure, but ruined it? not from what I read.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

a kid was missing for 45 minutes, and there were plenty of people who were casting aspersions on the father's motives or thruthfulness. How is that not being an apologist ?

It might not have been you, but a cursory look at this thread and there is ample evidence of people seemingly willing to carry water for disney.

If acknowledging that a massive global company like disney can and does occasionally make mistakes makes me a "disney hater" that's a cross I'm willing to bear.

I was not clear...............my point is that the folks who come in here calling anyone who is supporting Disney in whatever the discussion is about, a Cheerleader or a appologist.........are wrong .....its plain name calling and rude.............just as I feel..............no one should use the term Disney hater.....that is just as bad from the other view point.


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hopefully what the CD told the dad is followed through and they do review, learn, and train staff based on what they learn. That's the best case scenario.

Totaly agree!

AKK

 

[ilovetexas]

Yeah, I'm sure my kids are totally on a "ok to lose" list now. Never mind. The ability to ignore certain people is a wonderful thing.

Yes it is, feel free.

You are indeed correct, when someone cannot defend a position, just came them names!......Thier are a few here who use *cheerleader* as code..........any one who has a different opinion, that may not agree to the idea that DCL is in the wrong, uses *cheereleader* to say that person is not able to offer a honest and fair opinion, thier opinion should not be considered.


AKK

I've been called a Carnival cheerleader on these boards when I've tried to defend something going wrong on one of their ships (just as others are doing here). I have never discounted a level-headed, evenly thought out position.

What SOME on this thread are failing to acknowledge is that DCL, for whatever reason, messed up on this one. Does the guy deserve a refund, I don't know or care and all I've said from the beginning is that this was handled poorly. You, of all people, who have a serious concern about safety on ships cannot think this was handled well. Do I think DCL is a horrible company because of it? No. Do I think the problem is systemic? I seriously doubt it. Did they screw this up in a major way? Yes. Do the first several pages of replies on this thread refuse to acknowledge that? Yes.

And I'm sure there are some who preach that Disney can do no wrong, as well as some who preach that they can do no right. But from what I've seen, there are quite a few who fall on the middle that are being inaccurately mischaracterized.

This guy has been called a liar, people are accusing him of drinking and exacerbating the ordeal, you yourself in the 3rd post of this thread stated he was just contacting the media to set up a lawsuit (which there is currently no evidence of), etc. etc.

I'm absolutely referring to those on this thread who have jumped to DCL's defense by calling this guy names and minimizing his experience. Good grief, I've seen people on this board crazy upset if there weren't Mickey Bars onboard during their cruise!

I'm not saying that he deserves a refund (although whoever posted that DCL only gives refunds due to acts of God is wrong, I've gotten one for a sick child receiving shabby treatment on a cruise), I'm saying that people who care more if they get a particular type of ice cream or if their server makes toys out of napkins than a father's panic over a missing child should rethink their priorities.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

quote from his blog.....

I mentioned that we had a dinner reservation for her birthday, and I thought to myself that maybe the Cruise Director or the Captain might come by to wish her a happy birthday and apologize to her in person. At least to show that they do value their customers and that truly cared for what had happened to us.
note he did not say that they said they would come as your post does.

sometimes people get it wrong. you have as well. I may have, who knows. what we read can be, and often is, subjective. lets agree that dcl should look at their policies however I will not agree that we should know everything that goes on when something like this happens. I will never believe there isn't a protocol for lost children. it would be nice if I knew what it was but if I know than the 'bad guy' knows as well. it could be not so good if everyone knew what 'green from is missing' meant. in saying that, i'm not sure Disney did not do exactly what they were supposed to. in saying that i'm not sure the man did or did not just hear what he wanted to. he admits to being upset and we both know when your upset, really upset, you don't 'hear' everything. I don't hate dcl, sorry. I do say they should look into what happened but I don't think they are wrong. nor do I say the family is wrong.
looking at what he wrote I (jmo) do not think it was an issue that ruined their holiday. put a damper on it for sure, but ruined it? not from what I read.

Well said!, better then I could..........AKK

 

[manhattanman]

I was not clear...............my point is that the folks who come in here calling anyone who is supporting Disney in whatever the discussion is about, a Cheerleader or a appologist.........are wrong .....its plain name calling and rude.............just as I feel..............no one should use the term Disney hater.....that is just as bad from the other view point.


AKK

cheerleader and disney hater might be loaded but apologist is a pretty good definition for those who immediately questioned the motives or thruthfulness of the father based on their largely positive interactions with the mouse.

if that was not you, great. but to presume that there were not people who were acting as disney apologists, is easily disproven.

 

[Disney Dreams]

There are so many arguments within arguments on this thread it's hard to even decide what some people here are even debating anymore.

I did want to comment on this statement though.

...Do you people realize that when you leave a child with Disney daycare or ANYONES daycare that you are paying for, that you EXPECT your child to be there when it is time to pick the child up. I can not believe that people think that this is acceptable!!![/B]

Except you don't pay for Disney's kids clubs.

- Dreams

 

[justmestace]

Except you don't pay for Disney's kids clubs.

- Dreams

Um, yeah, you do. It's called "Cruise Fare". You pay a LOT. Just like the "free soda". You paid for it.





Yeah, I lied, I said I wasn't coming back. Gone now.