A little hurricane grievance/evacuations education/ Katrina timeline.

[swilphil]

I read that the governor requested $5 million to aid in evacuating on August 27th and was DENIED. She (the gov) also requested military assistance on Sunday night. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I read.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that N.O. hasn't had a major hurricane since 1969. The citizens and government officials there aren't used to dealing with the evacuations like the citizens of Florida. I do think there was a ball dropped, but I don't think you can blame one person like the mayor, governor, or even the president, and certainly not the citizens who didn't leave.

Lisa--Thanks for the background information. It was very helpful.

 

[Aimee K]

I was looking for just such a timeline, Lisa. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

There are many places things could have been done differently, many place that things were done the only way they could be done. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.

Preparing for a category 5 hurricane in 48 hours in MONUMENTAL. Preparing for a catastrophic flood? Only if you prepare to fight Mother Nature, and I'd bet on her to win every time!

 

[Pin Wizard]

Excellent job! Thanks for posting all that. You're right...hurricanes can change course in no time. I remember friends telling me of a hurricane in FL in the 70s or 80s I guess that was "supposed" to hit Boca Raton. They left and headed for Orlando and got a hotel. Ended up the hurricane hit Orlando, not Boca Raton. That's a 2.5 to 3 hour drive.

When the evacuation order is issued, THAT'S the time to leave! (If not before.) Not wait around deciding yes, I'm going or no, I'm not going. People waste so much time and are then stuck where they are. At some point, evacuations must be called off in order to keep the people doing the evacuating safe.

FL practically has evacuations down to a science since they go through it so often. Areas that are rarely hit don't have the "drills" FL does.

 

[Kermit]

I completely agree, Lisa.

To answer some of the questions/points in previous posts:

The Superdome has been used as a refuge in previous storms, so it must have been used as a part of a plan. There was food and water there.

And to those who were saying that you should start acting as soon as the hurricane hits the gulf without waiting for a warning...

People like us probably should. By people like us, I mean people who have the Internet, time to watch TV and see what the hurricane is doing, and money to takes trips to WDW. And in fact, a lot of the people like us did start to prepare early. Most people didn't start to actually leave until Saturday morning, but they did board up their houses, make sure everything was ready to go, etc.

NOLA is made up with a lot of people who aren't like us. You can't even get a handle on if you haven't really ever been there. And by being there, I don't mean staying at a hotel on Bourbon Street. In addition to living there, I've done mission work in the inner city. These people are poor like you've never seen poor before. Many don't have cars. They work several jobs and don't have time to watch TV. They may not be able to feed their families if they miss one shift at their jobs. Even if they do evacuate, they have to somehow figure out where a shelter is because they don't have money for the Holiday Inn.

People, and the government of New Orleans, can't afford to evacuate until they KNOW that it will be bad. And you can't just say that we knew on Saturday that it would be bad. You don't really know until it hits. You probably don't closely follow hurricanes that hit areas where you don't have close friends or family. You may not be aware that about every other year there is a prediction that there's a hurricane coming that will destroy New Orleans. I don't remember which one it was, but last year I sat glued to the TV one morning, watching a hurricane blow in that was supposed to cause flooding so bad that there would be water up to Jackson's nose on the statue of him in Jackson Square in the heart of the French Quarter. At the last minute, it turned. Jackson didn't even get his feet wet.

Will things change because of Katrina? I certainly hope so. I hope that the plan for moving people in AFTER the storm becomes much more efficient. I hope they start keeping food, water, and emergency equipment in places like Baton Rouge, Jackson, MS, and other locations just out of reach of the worst damage, and that they come up with a plan to get these things in quickly and efficiently as soon as needed. I also hope that people will take more personal responsibility. I hope that more people will make a better effort to get out ahead of time, and I hope that those who choose to stay with have over a week's worth of water, food, and for goodness gracious, formula if they have a nursing baby. And I certainly hope they keep a pick axe in their attics. But would I recommend mass government evacuations before the storm for able bodied people? No. It's more efficient to get the people out afterward IF it ends up being necessary.

 

[BuckNaked]

If the officials in NOLA and LA are going to throw up their hands and say "There is no way everyone can get out and there is no way we can safely shelter them in the city", then I think they should give serious consideration to not rebuilding the city as it was. To me, it is totally unacceptable to write off 100,000 citizens in a city because "it's just too hard" to help them get out or protect them if they have to stay.

NOLA faces unique dangers in the face of hurricanes, and there has to be some creative solutions about how to handle those dangers in the future.

 

[peachgirl]

NOLA faces unique dangers in the face of hurricanes, and there has to be some creative solutions about how to handle those dangers in the future.

I refuse to believe that there is no way to improve evacuation plans, however as always, it's going to cost money so don't look for it to happen.

You'd think we'd learn that prevention costs less than curing, but we don't. We'll spend billions and billions of dollars to help victims and repair the city and no one will complain too much and even if they do, it won't change anything. New Orleans will be rebuilt right where it stands today and no one is going to stop that....not that I think they should.

However, should the Federal Government attempt to spend a dime on flood control or assistance to New Orleans for improved evacuation plans, you can bet we'll hear how NOLA should take care of itself.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If the officials in NOLA and LA are going to throw up their hands and say "There is no way everyone can get out and there is no way we can safely shelter them in the city", then I think they should give serious consideration to not rebuilding the city as it was. To me, it is totally unacceptable to write off 100,000 citizens in a city because "it's just too hard" to help them get out or protect them if they have to stay.

NOLA faces unique dangers in the face of hurricanes, and there has to be some creative solutions about how to handle those dangers in the future.

They didn't throw their hands up in the air.

You cannot move 100,000 people in 48 hours. End of story.

For that matter--my county must throw its hands in the air--b/c there are people who cannot leave and go to shelters.

There is no magical limosine service to move that many people.

 

[BuckNaked]

I refuse to believe that there is no way to improve evacuation plans, however as always, it's going to cost money so don't look for it to happen.

You'd think we'd learn that prevention costs less than curing, but we don't. We'll spend billions and billions of dollars to help victims and repair the city and no one will complain too much and even if they do, it won't change anything. New Orleans will be rebuilt right where it stands today and no one is going to stop that....not that I think they should.

However, should the Federal Government attempt to spend a dime on flood control or assistance to New Orleans for improved evacuation plans, you can bet we'll hear how NOLA should take care of itself.

I don't think NOLA should take care of itself, but I definitely think that they should help contribute.

As for preventing, I'm all for trying to prevent such disasters, but this is nature we're talking about. We can try all we want, but there have to be real and effective plans in place in case the preventative measures don't work.

 

[Galahad]

Seems to me that we not only need to rebuild NOLA, but that we need to REDESIGN NOLA. It might work in the netherlands where there are no hurricanes, but perhaps a city with a sump-pump is a bad idea in the subtropics.

 

[tikkipoo]

If they evacuated the entire city, who would drive the buses to evacuate the ones that don't have transporation? Since were only talking about 48 hours at the most, wouldn't the drivers be gone? (I'm not trying to be smart, just a question)

 

[BuckNaked]

They didn't throw their hands up in the air.

I'm talking about future plans.

You cannot move 100,000 people in 48 hours. End of story.

Yes, you can, but it takes a good plan and Hurculean efforts. And any that can't be moved have to have a safe place to go to.

For that matter--my county must throw its hands in the air--b/c there are people who cannot leave and go to shelters.

That's fine, because your county obviously has shelters. NOLA doesn't. If a city doesn't have shelters, they they have to try to get people out.

 

[peachgirl]

I don't think NOLA should take care of itself, but I definitely think that they should help contribute.

As for preventing, I'm all for trying to prevent such disasters, but this is nature we're talking about. We can try all we want, but there have to be real and effective plans in place in case the preventative measures don't work.

I think they should contribute, but a city doesn't have nearly the kinds of resources they would need for extensive improvements in the levee system or the money it would cost to improve evacuation plans.

I wasn't talking about preventing disasters, I don't think we can. I meant preventing the type of flooding New Orleans experienced by improving the levee system. There are plans to improve the system, but as you know have not been completed due to lack of funding.

We also might want to look into improving Federal response times.

 

[Beastlover]

A very catastsrophic lesson....our coastal cities need to have better evacuation plans in place so they can be implemented effectively.

I think people have forgotten: this is 2 catastrophies in 1. First the hurricane, then the levy break. My DH saw on Discovery channel (??) a program on the condition of LO (NA), being built under sea level and the condition of the levies. THey talked about a tsunami coming along and causing a breach.

Don't know when it was on, but we thought that to be interesting.

So so very sad for all...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I refuse to believe that there is no way to improve evacuation plans,

I completely agree with you.

However--there is no way logistically--to empty 1 million people out in 48 hours.

You can improve maybe so that more people could leave--but you will have people--ALWAYS have people who cannot get out. It is the nature of the beast. The government is to keep you as safe as possible from natural disaster, not immune from it

(Note--I'm not discussing the levees which is a whole other topic for a whole other thread of how that failed the population).

They just didn't fathom that Katrina specifically--was any threat....b/c the National Hurricane System--whose responsibility is to track and predict these disasters---couldn't predict that the "possibility" of this specific storm was even going to bring a breeze to New Orleans let alone total devastation. It didn't come up until Friday--and the city reacted as quickly as they could.

Improvements can be made--but only so much is possible until the Hurricane forecasted track gets refined as technology improves to give more certainty further out.

 

[Kermit]

Another point I wanted to bring up is that if the government started evacuating people, I'm guessing that some of the people who would have otherwise evacuated themselves would suddenly be unable to evacuate on their own and need the government to do it for them. The number of people who stayed behind in NOLA doesn't represent the number the government would have to evacuated if they attempted to do it.

 

[BuckNaked]

I think they should contribute, but a city doesn't have nearly the kinds of resources they would need for extensive improvements in the levee system or the money it would cost to improve evacuation plans.


I wasn't talking about preventing disasters, I don't think we can. I meant preventing the type of flooding New Orleans experienced by improving the levee system. There are plans to improve the system, but as you know have not been completed due to lack of funding.

Even if the money had been available, it was a plan that wasn't planned to be completed for more than 10 years. I highly doubt it would have made any difference in this case. But nice try.

We also might want to look into improving Federal response times.

The failure of the feds this time was in not telling state and local officials to get the hell out of the way and federalize the entire effort. Following the procedures that are in place require state and local governments to let the government know what they need, and it's obvious that those officials didn't have a clue.

 

[momof2inPA]

I'm sure they'll be better prepared next time. I'm not so much surprised at how many people stayed, but at how many people evacuated. There is so much poverty in the deep south.

A side note: How did president Bush find the only two black women in Biloxi who had time to get their hair and nails done since the hurricane while he was taking his tour yesterday? Well, at least we know he does like black people. Even though the poor ones are dying in New Orleans, he will let the clean, wealthy ones hang on his shoulder in the coastal neighborhoods of Mississippi.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, you can, but it takes a good plan and Hurculean efforts. And any that can't be moved have to have a safe place to go to.



That's fine, because your county obviously has shelters. NOLA doesn't. If a city doesn't have shelters, they they have to try to get people out.

This is great--and very noble...and I agree with you---but it is more than 100,000. The city has ~500,000 to think about.....and then all the surrounding areas. You are moving millions in 48 hours. Not to mention Alabama and Mississippi. People are dead on the beaches their too. Had they not been told to evacuate (which they were)--so that one city could have all the highways....then there would be rage of all the 1000s dead in MS and AL.

The point is--they can only do as much as what is available from forecasting.

3 days before...it was a Florida problem only--one could argue--why not evacuate North Carolina south and Texas coast east---for each and every hurricane!

That is the point!

The city had a plan and it was executed when it became necessary to execute. You do not empty cities for natural events which pose no threat.

Katrina was NOT a threat to New Orleans...NOT a threat--until Friday. She was a threat ONLY to Florida and northward.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The failure of the feds this time was in not telling state and local officials to get the hell out of the way and federalize the entire effort. Following the procedures that are in place require state and local governments to let the government know what they need, and it's obvious that those officials didn't have a clue.

Absolutetly....

(though I'm only talking specifically about the Hurricane Prep--not rescue and recovery--so I will leave it there).

 

[WDWBetsy]

Oh for God's sake. Everyone living in coastal areas including the northeast knows something about flooding, if not hurricanes, and this is as much a flood disaster as anything else....and so was Hurricane Floyd, in NC. There are tangetally related problems that I wouldn't criticise the mayor for, but the federal gov't (Bush) declared emergency in advance and personally lobbied for evacuation of New Orleans based on flooding, which would be (and is) a catastrophe of proportions unique to New Orleans.

Just fed up with people on soapboxes today. Mayor included.

I'm fed up with people not having any compassion and not looking outside their safe little world. Just because Bush declared an emergency and called for an evacuation doesn't mean the poor had the money and vehicles to leave. Let's see - if you have no money, no car, and no way out of town - how are you supposed to evacuate? These people are below poverty level.

Oh by the way - our President also cut funding to improve the levies so the money would be for homeland security and Iraq. What hard work he does!

It's pretty sad that our government can drop pallets of food/water in other countries (especially when we're bombing them) and they can't get their act together in our own country. Oh, that's right - the money and resources is in Iraq. Isn't Homeland Security supposed to protect the homeland?