A Glorified 800 Unit Apartment Complex?

[FLYNZ4]

I think we are going to like SSR because our kids (and us too) like to go to PI/DD in the evenings... and having it so close is a real plus. We also like the rooms and the feel of the resorts... as well as the ability to park directly in front of the units.

I personally think that BWV/BCV are the most centrally located resorts... and probably the best on a "pure location" basis. If any single thing worries me about SSR... it is the transportation to other areas of WDW. We always have a car... so it is probably a minor concern.

We are currently staying at VWL, and I feel that it too is too remote. It does have good access to the MK, but we probably spend less time at MK than any other aspect of WDW (major or minor parks). VWL is gorgeous... and we especially enjoy staying here at Xmas.

I suspect that we will try the various resorts... but if we were ever restricted to just SSR, we would still be happy. I like the lower MFs, and I think the extra 12 years will effect the long term value of the resorts... unless of course, DVC offers contract extensions to the other properties... which I fully expect them to do one of these days.

/Jim

 

[Simba's Mom]

I'm just curious-how will SSR compare in size to OKW? The other DVCs? Is OKW about 750 units, meaning that SSR will be a little bigger? How big are the others?

 

[Paul G in the UK]

It seems like a lot of people, who "don't like SSR", and by the sounds of it never want to stay there, don't mind spending their hard-earned cash to use poor SSR as a way in to their "favorite, better" resorts. Maybe you would like DVC to bring a rule in along the lines of "because I bought into SSR, but don't want to go there, can I have an 11-month window for everywhere else, as it's a bit hard getting the time and place I want at 7 months".

This may sound like an annoyed SSR owner, who loves what he owns, and doesn't like to hear it being dissed out of hand, and to a point that's right. I respect and value everyone's opinion, we are all entitled to one and I have plenty of them (just ask DW!!!). But it seems a little like wanting your cake and eating it by saying that the 7 month window will be competetive when you have not tried a resort you own at with a perfectly accessible 11 month window. Please don't think I am tring to flame anyone, I love the DVC, and all you wonderful, kind and hospitable people out there, I really am not being disrespectful to anyone (I hope). Honest!

I thought it was us Brits who were the best in the world at complaining anyway!!

 

[LeftCoaster]

I think we are going to like SSR because our kids (and us too) like to go to PI/DD in the evenings... and having it so close is a real plus. We also like the rooms and the feel of the resorts... as well as the ability to park directly in front of the units.

I personally think that BWV/BCV are the most centrally located resorts... and probably the best on a "pure location" basis. If any single thing worries me about SSR... it is the transportation to other areas of WDW. We always have a car... so it is probably a minor concern.

/Jim

I would say being next to DTD makes it a great transportation hub. Having dinner at AKL or another deluxe? Freshen up in your room, walk over to DTD and take a bus to AKL. No more need to take a bus to a theme park and then wait for another bus.

 

[erikthewise]

Not quite...

Say DVC built three 250 unit resorts instead of on SSR. One had the Upstate New York theme. The second had a European village feel to it. The third was Asian inspired (I'd kill for a resort with great Japanese gardens and shoji screens for curtains).

People who don't like the SSR theme would have two other "chances" to have resorts that appeal to them that they might switch into or book at seven months. I'm unlikely to every try SSR because neither the theme nor the location appeals to me - if I need a last minute resort and that is what is available, I'll live. But I might try to change into either of the other two resorts at seven months (or BCV or VWL or OKW) - freeing up my BW Standard View reservations for someone else.

The nice thing about DVC is that there are resorts to appeal to everyone. But when one of the resorts is bigger than the rest, it does throw a wrench into the availability of the smaller resorts - not right at seven months, everyone has the same chance with MS opens - but at five or six months (and potentially if you don't make early morning day to day reservations at seven months - which I think is what people are most concerned about). The more "themed" resorts DVC offers its members, the more appealing the "DVC offers a lot of different experiences, there will be one, or several, that appeal to you" argument becomes.

Good point, Crisi. I was thinking of 3 separate but pretty much the same resorts, but variety is obviously more desirable. A 250-unit resort you're never going to stay in is not a problem, but an 800-unit resort you're never going to stay in may be a problem, especially if a lot of other members feel the same.

 

[spiceycat]

okay you want a reservation in Dec to go to some meets or just to see the Christmas decorations - you are saying that you won't accept a reservation at SSR?

kept in mind that Dec 1 -14 is a pretty busy time at all the DVC resorts....

 

[crisi]

To us, yes, I believe it variety is more desireable. To Disney - well, one 800 unit resort means designing one pool, one exterior and one landscaping theme. Cheaper on the initial build. They also have plenty of land at SSR for 800 units - although even there they could have done a PO/POR or Y&BC thing - with two complementary themed resorts sharing facilities, each with 400 units.

Similar sized resorts increase your chances of similar numbers of members switching around their home resorts. Say 60% of members stay at their home resort in a given year, 40% switch. That 40% at SSR is going to be more people than the 40% at VWL. And if its a pain for the VWL folks who don't want the big resorts to try and get BCVs, they are less likely to even bother switching - they will either make a private trade with a BC owner, or not free up the VWL room I'd like to swap into.

Of course, in reality it isn't that simple....

 

[Deep-Thots]

I do my reservations at my home resort at 11 months to the day, but that's not where the potential problem lies. The problem is at the seven month window. If I ever want to stay at any resort other than my home resort, SSR has the potential to provide 2-4 times as much competition for those slots. This is actually a minor issue for me personally as we love our home resort and DW always says no when I suggest trying somewhere else -- so far we've spent exactly one night at other DVC resorts.

The secret fear is that SSR will turn out to be an 800-unit Vero Beach, with a large percentage of owners who bought with the intention of staying somewhere else. If that turns out to be false, and SSR owners love their resort, then no problem (or at least less of one). But if the secret fears are borne out, there is no question that it will put a strain on reservations at the seven-month window. Deep-Thots points out there is no problem if everyone else stays at their home resort; I say that applies equally to SSR owners.

The whole tenor of this thread reminds me of two prepubescent kids sharing a bedroom and deciding to split the room down the middle, each having his/her "own side," and using duct tape and extreme vigilance to insure equity. Sigh.

Please do not misconstrue my meaning regarding home resort reservations. My intent in my previous post was to point out that if you (generic "you," not you specifically, erikthewise) are an owner at one of the smaller resorts, you have a four-month booking advantage (relative to staying at your home resort) over those members who own at the larger and ostensibly less desirable resorts.

After that period of time, however, you're in the same boat as all other members. And that's just tough luck. There's no use whining about it, for heaven's sake. Like it or not, the fact is that DVC promotes the possibility of staying at other resorts as part of its sales package. Moreover, said possibility is written into the contracts.

If these facts bother some people as much as they seem to, then perhaps it would be best for them (a) to stay only at their home resorts (being certain to book while one has an advantage), (b) to purchase additional points at one of the smaller resorts in order to secure the four-month advantage there, or (c) to sell their memberships in DVC.

SSR is a reality -- a reality that's here to stay. It would probably be best to be proactive about it -- to accept these new circumstances and figure out how you are going to deal with them (and sooner rather than later). But whining and complaining accomplish nothing.

 

[Dean]

Why???? The addition of SSR takes absolutely nothing away from you. To wit, you still have a four month window in which to make reservations ahead of those who own at the supposedly lesser and larger resorts. The only potential stress that the addition of SSR places on you is that you likely will have to plan ahead, being certain to make your reservations before the seven-month window elapses. But this is no different from the system you currently enjoy.

I just find this whole topic of discussion completely befuddling. With the exception of original owners/members at OKW, I'd assume (and I may be wrong here) that most owners/members read their contracts prior to making their purchases and consequently were aware of the possibility of the construction of other (even larger) resorts.

As it stands, DVC is a flexible timeshare, plain and simple. In fact, this flexibility of scheduling is precisely why DH and I purchased DVC and not another timeshare in Orlando. If people want to have the opportunity to enjoy the same type of room during the same week every year, there are other timeshares they can purchase. But DVC is not one of them -- unless owners/members are prepared to exercise the 11-month booking window they enjoy at their home resorts.

As noted more competition at the 7 month window. But the real problem is that it will create problems and remove reasonable choices for pool hopping, CC, DCL, etc. Not that any of these are big deals to be, they are not. But they are to some and a resort that I see as a non destination resort for many will create significant problems for the system. It is the way it works but a significant number of people were upset at those buying OKW just to get in and stay at the other resorts, this is no different. It's simply an issue of sheer numbers.

Dean - my guide told me a couple of weeks ago - that SSR was selling out 15% faster than any other DVC resort.

this is not true?

I think this board under estimates the draw of DD - this place is constantly busy - to be able to walk over - vs taking a long bus drive or even worst trying to find a parking place - is a BIG draw. (my opinion)

Hey Pat, timeshare sales people are always 100% truthful, LOL. In order to sell out faster than BCV and VWL, it'll have to sell out in about 4.5 years from the time they started taking deposits. I'll take that bet as we're already at over a year. By this time BCV was sold out and VWL was listed as sold out in about 11 months however they had held back a few points which they later offered for retail sale over a total of 18 months. And they were also competing with the extra OKW points along with VB AND HH. I suspect SSR will take at least 8 years minimum to sell out but we shall see.

If SSR was going to be only somewhat larger then it wouldn't really be a concern but this thing is literally going to dwarf all of the other resorts. Those who have visited recently and commented that they didn't think it was all that unwieldy are going to find a much different resort developing as they visit in future years. Hopefully both owners and non-owners alike will find the completed resort attractive enough to want to stay there on a consistant basis.

To me, I think it is pretty much the same at the 7 building vs the entire resort as announced. But they are going to need a larger check in and food service area once it's fully built out.

SSR is a fine resort with drawbacks and limitations as well as plusses. And it's size and the number of points will have effects of the system, both good and bad. In many ways it will function much like OKW. But for many it's a way into the system where they will stay at times but in many cases will try to stay at other resorts when they don't need a GV unit. Discussing the negatives of it's size or the realities of it's location and design are in no way basing the resort. I can list things I like and don't like about every resort, I have before to a degree.

 

[erikthewise]

Why does expressing a concern (or even trying to explain the concerns of others as I was doing) need to be called "whining and complaining"? Nowhere in this thread have I seen anyone suggest that
-- SSR is currently a problem
-- SSR owners should be treated differently
-- any changes in the reservation system

All I have seen is speculation about the impact of SSR as it grows larger. I can't figure out why that would be upsetting.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I would say being next to DTD makes it a great transportation hub. Having dinner at AKL or another deluxe? Freshen up in your room, walk over to DTD and take a bus to AKL. No more need to take a bus to a theme park and then wait for another bus.

That is the best part I completely forgot about! It does take away the "need for a car" for that stuff. We will be doing that often when we go back in Sept.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

That is the best part I completely forgot about! It does take away the "need for a car" for that stuff. We will be doing that often when we go back in Sept.

The only bad thing is once the locals and offsiters discover this, they'll be parking at DTD and using the SSR busses to and from the parks.

 

[Deep-Thots]

Why does expressing a concern (or even trying to explain the concerns of others as I was doing) need to be called "whining and complaining"?

I do my reservations at my home resort at 11 months to the day, but that's not where the potential problem lies. The problem is at the seven month window. If I ever want to stay at any resort other than my home resort, SSR has the potential to provide 2-4 times as much competition for those slots.

"The problem is at the seven month window. If I ever want to stay at any resort other than my home resort, SSR has the potential to provide 2-4 times as much competition for those slots."

Granted, you subsequently admit that this issue probably will not be a problem for you personally, but that last sentence is what I'd call whining and complaining. So, there may (and in all likelihood will be) additional competition at the seven-month window. So what? We'll all just have to be much more anticipatory/knowledgeable about reservations if we're interested in staying anywhere other than our home resorts, and will also have to act on that knowledge.

 

[rinkwide]

I would say being next to DTD makes it a great transportation hub... ...No more need to take a bus to a theme park and then wait for another bus.

A very functional benefit. Excellent point and the kind of positive feedback I think the OP was looking for (hmm, I think that was actually me ).

As for the "whining and complaining"; I can't wait until I hit puberty so it can be called "discussing and debating".

 

[Dean]

Granted, you subsequently admit that this issue probably will not be a problem for you personally, but that last sentence is what I'd call whining and complaining. So, there may (and in all likelihood will be) additional competition at the seven-month window. So what? We'll all just have to be much more anticipatory/knowledgeable about reservations if we're interested in staying anywhere other than our home resorts, and will also have to act on that knowledge.

I can guarantee you it won't be a problem for me as I bought where I want to stay, plan one to two years ahead and know how to work the system to it's fullest extent. But what about those that are not as well informed or able to plan as well? And consider those that believed the timeshare sales person when they were told that getting things at the 7 month window wouldn't be a problem. True, they'll be getting what they agreed to legally but I think many will be in for a rude awakening. I can tell you exactly what will happen if there are no more "destination" resorts, it's very plain and simple. Getting a unit at BWV, BCV, VWL and HH (esp mid June to mid Aug) for any peak time will be essentially impossible. Don't even think about the busier DVC times which don't always correspond to the busier park and WDW times, example early December. OKW and SSR will be easy to get almost any time other than the GV units at SSR which will be easier than they are now due to the increased numbers and harder at OKW due to the lower point requirements. The percent of people successful for their DESIRED resort at the 7 month window will likely fall to half or less what it is now.

If other non destination resorts are build like EP, it will get worse. If other destination resorts are built, it will ease up but likely not enough to make a big difference due to the sheer numbers of points at OKW and SSR and possibly at EP though I doubt that ever happens plus the historically smaller destination resort sizes.

 

[mom2rb]

The only bad thing is once the locals and offsiters discover this, they'll be parking at DTD and using the SSR busses to and from the parks.

DH and I were talking about that this trip. I told him I thought that pretty soon we would have to show are room keys to get on the SSR busses, just like SAB at BCV.

 

[crisi]

There continues to be an easy solution to the seven month non-home resort problem - private trades. I suspect the rent trade board and this DVC network will find more posts "BWV owner willing to trade 11 month window for 11 month window at VWL - up to 400 points"

 

[Beca]

I'm just curious-how will SSR compare in size to OKW? The other DVCs? Is OKW about 750 units, meaning that SSR will be a little bigger? How big are the others?

I posted this earlier in the thread, but here are the sizes:

VWL 136
BCV 208
BWV 383
OKW 531
SSR 828

It is a big difference. OKW is only 64% the size of SSR.



Beca

 

[Beca]

It seems like a lot of people, who "don't like SSR", and by the sounds of it never want to stay there, don't mind spending their hard-earned cash to use poor SSR as a way in to their "favorite, better" resorts. Maybe you would like DVC to bring a rule in along the lines of "because I bought into SSR, but don't want to go there, can I have an 11-month window for everywhere else, as it's a bit hard getting the time and place I want at 7 months".

This may sound like an annoyed SSR owner, who loves what he owns, and doesn't like to hear it being dissed out of hand, and to a point that's right. I respect and value everyone's opinion, we are all entitled to one and I have plenty of them (just ask DW!!!). But it seems a little like wanting your cake and eating it by saying that the 7 month window will be competetive when you have not tried a resort you own at with a perfectly accessible 11 month window. Please don't think I am tring to flame anyone, I love the DVC, and all you wonderful, kind and hospitable people out there, I really am not being disrespectful to anyone (I hope). Honest!

I thought it was us Brits who were the best in the world at complaining anyway!!

Maybe I am just reading the boards too late at night...but, I really don't understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that non-SSR owners are wanting 11 month windows at all resorts besides SSR? Or, are you saying that non-SSR owners are upset because they bought at resorts other than those that they wanted and are now unhappy because they may be "forced" to stay at their home resort, or SSR? I'm really confused, and I would love to hear what you have to say on the subject. Could you clarify this for me???


Thanks,



Beca

 

[tjkraz]

Still, I'd think for the investment people are making in vacation ownership, a lot of people will begin to demand a quality restaurant on property.

I might buy that if meals were included in our ownership, but I don't see that happening.

Seriously, I really don't have a sense for what others might want. I'm sitting at SSR now, and had hoped to sample AP for myself. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. In a typical week, we'll eat out maybe once per day (almost always dinner) and we tend to gravitate toward the 'destination' restaurants--character meals or something like Whispering Canyon or the ESPN Club.

If the demand exists, DVC will address the situation.

As to the original question of SSR's impact on DVC reservation patterns, I only have two comments to add:

1. Any real or perceived patterns in reservations / availability will continue to be changing and evolving. While it's fun to speculate on what may happen, only time will tell. IMO, the most difficult to predict issue is the future of DVC itself. Case in point: if the oft-rumored DVC component is ever announced for the Contemporary resort, then you can toss out the window any current perceptions about which resorts will be "in demand."

2. A long-time DVC member once drew an interesting parallel for me. It seems that when VB and later HHI were announced, many had the same "the sky is falling" reaction. The fear was that all of those devious VB and HHI owners would buy into the program and only use their points at WDW resorts, causing demand to skyrocket. As it turns out, I've seen many VB/HHI owners readily admit they did just that and have never stayed at their Home resort. Nevertheless, HHI and VB have carved out their own niche in the "family" and availability at the WDW properties...is what it is.

As Doc says, stay tuned!