A Glorified 800 Unit Apartment Complex?

[tjkraz]

The only bad thing is once the locals and offsiters discover this, they'll be parking at DTD and using the SSR busses to and from the parks.

Any locals who are knowledgable enough to attempt something like this would already be AP holders with free parking priviledges.

For off-siters, there are much more effective ways to abuse the WDW transportation system than walking 10-15 minutes from DD to a SSR bus stop.

 

[LeftCoaster]

As for the "whining and complaining"; I can't wait until I hit puberty so it can be called "discussing and debating".

If you haven't hit puberty yet, then that means you're having a temper tantrum.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Any locals who are knowledgable enough to attempt something like this would already be AP holders with free parking priviledges.

For off-siters, there are much more effective ways to abuse the WDW transportation system than walking 10-15 minutes from DD to a SSR bus stop.

This is true. Why not just hop on a bus at DTD why walk to SSR?

 

[mom2rb]

This is true. Why not just hop on a bus at DTD why walk to SSR?

I don't think they have direct buses from DD to the parks for just this reason.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I also don't see why you are assuming SSR owners "just bought to get in". That wasn't the case for me. We bought site unseen because we expected it to be amazing. We stayed when the resort is not even done and we love it. All the negatives we think are overly exaggerated, especially the pool issue since the leisure pools are just as enticing. The one by Congress Park is stunning.

The only major issue I see with SSR is the dining options. Yes we can walk to DTD but I would like to see a full service restaurant too.

As far as feeling unDisneylike, I could not disagree more. If anyone has been to Celebration to me SSR has a similar feel to it.

Also you are not taking into consideration how many people will want to trade into SSR. The comments I am reading here are coming from a small handful of people who dislike SSR. As we all know not every DVC member posts on dis. Just out of curiosity they will want to try out SSR and may get won over like we did and make it a common thing to stay there.

I see SSR as a positive for those who own elsewhere to have another resort to try. I see a common thing here on these boards that people are so resort loyal that if they admit to wanting to try another resort or if they do and actually love it is is somehow like they are 'cheating' on their home resort.

We will have to wait and see what actually happens but I am sure Disney has done all sorts of projections to figure out what will occur. If the do make current DVC owners unhappy with their decisions that will affect future DVC resort sales. I am sure they do not want to have a situation where people regret they bought due to overcrowding.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I don't think they have direct buses from DD to the parks for just this reason.

Yeah but if it were this easy they could ride to any resort and switch.We would be seeing this alot even before SSR was built. But I am sure if people start doing that there will be a gate put in at the path enterance.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I would expect further (and even greater increases) in the direct point exchanges through DVC for DC, CC and DCL. Reports from this board indicate that DVC is already unable to "rent-out" all the points currently being exchanged from the DVC resorts. Many CRO bookers may shy away from DVC units in general as they tend to be more $. CRO may have to deep discount DVC rooms just to recoup any proceeds from rented points. But really, what incentive does CRO have to unload the DVC points traded in from members? Afterall, DVC traded points are rented out in direct competition with all WDW onsite resorts.

Do you think we will see $99 specials for onsite DVC units like the rates that are currently available at HH and VB?

 

[crisi]

As they up the number of rooms on site - yes, you will see $99 studios - especially at SSR and OKW. I don't know that you will see $99 multiroom units.

Its supply/demand. As there are more DVC units (and more DVCers to trading out) it should be easier to trade into DVC as well.

In general, I don't see DISers as statistically representative of DVC members on much. I think we go more often, I think we own more points, I think we are better informed. But I think when it comes down to taste, we are going to be fairly representative. I don't see non-DISer seeing SSR as a destination resort in any greater percentage than DISers do.

Disney could do some things to change that. Making it more of a "destination" - i.e. playing up the spa, putting in a sit down restaurant, offering a great "community hall" program. Playing up the access to the golf course. Perhaps some other ideas that have been floated - an "adults only" unit, or one where you could take pets, might make people who would rather stay at BCVs for Epcot access or SAB think twice. But still, there is a supply/demand equation in here as well. There simply will be more SSR owners - if they want to switch in the SAME propotions as VWL owners or BWV owners, that is more of them wanting to switch. That doesn't mean they are evil people, or that they are screwing up the distribution, but that Disney created an inbalance in the supply/demand equation when they made a huge resort. This has already played out at OKW, which is easier to get on short notice than any other resort. While the smallest resort - VWL - MS tells us causes the most disappontment when people try to book without ample planning.

Now, if they built 800 units at the Poly, or at AKL or at the Contemporary, they probably wouldn't have the same sort of imbalance - plenty of people would make those resorts their first choice of non-home stays.

 

[spiceycat]

$99 for OKW or SSR - you are kidding right?

they are onproperty resort with a mini kitchen - they will always rent for more through CRO.

there seems to be a greater demand for the 1 and 2 bedroom than the studio from what I have seem on the resort board.

Until WDW or DVC or DVD offers these resort for $99 - well we will definitely see.

Now offering discounts on the moderates to tour DVC I can definitely see. Hey once you stay on-site you won't want to stay off-site.....

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

$99 for OKW or SSR - you are kidding right?

they are onproperty resort with a mini kitchen - they will always rent for more through CRO.

there seems to be a greater demand for the 1 and 2 bedroom than the studio from what I have seem on the resort board.

Until WDW or DVC or DVD offers these resort for $99 - well we will definitely see.

Now offering discounts on the moderates to tour DVC I can definitely see. Hey once you stay on-site you won't want to stay off-site.....

Yeah I agree WDW has a year round draw. HH and VB does not it is seasonal and being someone who just took advantage of the $99 for a 2 bedroom at Hilton Head last weekend, I can say no matter how cheap it gets I will not go back during that time it was too cold to really enjoy the resort. Now I would definitely go off season to WDW just to beat the crowds. Aside from rain things are not that contingent on outside temperature. There is plenty to do if you have to wear a sweater and those days are rarer than not. So there is no reason for those rates IMO especially for the amenities you get by staying at DVC onsite. It would be a big mistake IMO for DVC/CRO to offer that.

 

[rinkwide]

...I am sure Disney has done all sorts of projections to figure out what will occur.

Yeah, and I guess that's what worries some of us who own the smaller, on-property resorts.

It seems that, after some early challenges, DVD found a very sucessful blueprint for sales and development; smaller, well themed and integrated resorts sprinkled throughout The World. Now that their program has gained serious momentum (i.e. profitability) there's a perception that they have, all-of-a-sudden, decided to lower the capital investment and cash out with a new mega-resort. By deviating from a proven formula there's concern that DVD has chosen to simply chase the almighty dollar without as much regard for the overall experience of their membership.

...Disney could do some things to change that. Making it more of a "destination" - i.e. playing up the spa, putting in a sit down restaurant, offering a great "community hall" program. Playing up the access to the golf course. Perhaps some other ideas that have been floated - an "adults only" unit, or one where you could take pets...

Agreed, and hopefully they will.

It's my opinion that this discussion would be moot if DVD had simply done the right thing and invested in an SSR pool complex that would make SAB look like a mud puddle.

 

[spiceycat]

I don't think you would enjoy paying for a pool complex - it is expensive.

all of SSR maintence/operating cost must be paid by DVC members.

Only the BCV part of the BC/YC is paid by member. BIG difference!!!

the pool at SALB is expensive and will ALWAYS be.

It has to have many lifeguards and the upkept on that monster.

Anyway I do believe that if enough SSR members complaint about having such a small main pool (now for the size that SSR currently is - the pool is not small) - but for the size it will be - it will definitely need another main pool.

DVC is pretty good about planning things like this.

 

[crisi]

Hasn't Disney added or is in the process of adding mini fridges to the resort rooms? So the minikitchen DVC has is now up a microwave from what is (or will be) available in the hotel rooms. And CBR has been available for $79 a night through AP discounts in the past year. $121 for the WL. $139 for the cabins at Ft. Wilderness - with kitchens and a bedroom. Is a microwave at SSR worth $20 a night over a room at the CBR?

I'm not saying that will be the CRO rack rate. But an AP special? A special to DVC members or Disney Visa card holders? In September or January?

 

[spiceycat]

I think the free refrigerators are the smaller ones.

the hotel rooms don't have a toaster, coffee maker (to my knowledge) or microwave - and the wet bar. No mugs, no glasses....

the moderates don't have a balcony, the only pool at the moderates that has a spa (whirlpool) is the main one - none at the quiet pool. OKW has one at every pool and so does SSR.

there is a BIG difference between the studios and resort room.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Yeah, and I guess that's what worries some of us who own the smaller, on-property resorts.

It seems that, after some early challenges, DVD found a very sucessful blueprint for sales and development; smaller, well themed and integrated resorts sprinkled throughout The World. Now that their program has gained serious momentum (i.e. profitability) there's a perception that they have, all-of-a-sudden, decided to lower the capital investment and cash out with a new mega-resort. By deviating from a proven formula there's concern that DVD has chosen to simply chase the almighty dollar without as much regard for the overall experience of their membership.


Agreed, and hopefully they will.

It's my opinion that this discussion would be moot if DVD had simply done the right thing and invested in an SSR pool complex that would make SAB look like a mud puddle.

Honestly I had visited SAB when we were in The World last month and I wasn't blown away with it like I thought I would be. The way SAB is descibed on these boards is not the experience I had. For me SAB isn't a big enough draw like the location of DTD. Plus like I said before the pool at SSR is amazing in it's own right. It matches the "feeling" of being associated with the spa area. The rock themeing gives the feel of being at a luxury resort. The whole atmosphere of it is different than SAB. I think that is why people who are into a different experience will enjoy SSR. I also walked over to BW and checked out the Luna Park pool and that too had too much of a children's theme too it. It was not somewhere I would feel relaxed at. But again this is just my opinion and now with the sales center being onsite at SSR people will buy there because they like the resort and not just to "get in". Hopefully the percentage that will buy just to get in will be small. Also there may be alot of current members that love SSR and will trade to stay there as well. You never know the scenarios that can play out anyway that is why the best approach will be to wait and see.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I think the free refrigerators are the smaller ones.

the hotel rooms don't have a toaster, coffee maker (to my knowledge) or microwave - and the wet bar. No mugs, no glasses....

the moderates don't have a balcony, the only pool at the moderates that has a spa (whirlpool) is the main one - none at the quiet pool. OKW has one at every pool and so does SSR.

there is a BIG difference between the studios and resort room.

Not to mention the size. I feel the studio "feel" alot bigger. I could compare the actual room size if I felt like looking up the info but I don't LOL.

 

[Dean]

I also don't see why you are assuming SSR owners "just bought to get in". That wasn't the case for me. We bought site unseen because we expected it to be amazing. We stayed when the resort is not even done and we love it. All the negatives we think are overly exaggerated, especially the pool issue since the leisure pools are just as enticing. The one by Congress Park is stunning.

The only major issue I see with SSR is the dining options. Yes we can walk to DTD but I would like to see a full service restaurant too.

As far as feeling unDisneylike, I could not disagree more. If anyone has been to Celebration to me SSR has a similar feel to it.

Also you are not taking into consideration how many people will want to trade into SSR. The comments I am reading here are coming from a small handful of people who dislike SSR. As we all know not every DVC member posts on dis. Just out of curiosity they will want to try out SSR and may get won over like we did and make it a common thing to stay there.

I see SSR as a positive for those who own elsewhere to have another resort to try. I see a common thing here on these boards that people are so resort loyal that if they admit to wanting to try another resort or if they do and actually love it is is somehow like they are 'cheating' on their home resort.

We will have to wait and see what actually happens but I am sure Disney has done all sorts of projections to figure out what will occur. If the do make current DVC owners unhappy with their decisions that will affect future DVC resort sales. I am sure they do not want to have a situation where people regret they bought due to overcrowding.

You may have bought for SSR itself, but I believe a larger percentage of new members did not. Maybe they bought because it's what DVC's selling or maybe they wanted the extra 12 years. But I fully expect a significant percentage bought it to use at other resorts a HIGHER percentage than owners at other resorts and that includes VB and HH. That doesn't make it wrong, it's the system. Same can be said for many buying now resale at OKW because it's cheaper up front and in maint fees. That too is OK. But there are realities with so many extra points at a resort that is not a destination unto itself. I think it'd be hard to argue that over the long run, a higher percentage of SSR (and OKW) owners will try to stay at other resorts (BCV, BWV and VWL), than the reverse. But even if were exactly the same, the sheer volume of SSR will overshadow the rest.

While we will have to wait and see if this is a major problem, no reason to wait to get burned for what I want. And unfortunately, it's likely we won't have real data to judge this by. What we'd need is the percent of people from one resort staying at another (by resort on both ends) plus a measure of unsuccessful attempts, again, not data we have for DVC. We do have that data for II and BVTC.

 

[Dean]

I would expect further (and even greater increases) in the direct point exchanges through DVC for DC, CC and DCL. Reports from this board indicate that DVC is already unable to "rent-out" all the points currently being exchanged from the DVC resorts. Many CRO bookers may shy away from DVC units in general as they tend to be more $. CRO may have to deep discount DVC rooms just to recoup any proceeds from rented points. But really, what incentive does CRO have to unload the DVC points traded in from members? Afterall, DVC traded points are rented out in direct competition with all WDW onsite resorts.?

I agree and tried to make that point earlier.

I know DVC has added mini fridge/microwave combo's to at least some of the moderate resorts including the CBR.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

You may have bought for SSR itself, but I believe a larger percentage of new members did not. Maybe they bought because it's what DVC's selling or maybe they wanted the extra 12 years. But I fully expect a significant percentage bought it to use at other resorts a HIGHER percentage than owners at other resorts and that includes VB and HH. That doesn't make it wrong, it's the system. Same can be said for many buying now resale at OKW because it's cheaper up front and in maint fees. That too is OK. But there are realities with so many extra points at a resort that is not a destination unto itself. I think it'd be hard to argue that over the long run, a higher percentage of SSR (and OKW) owners will try to stay at other resorts (BCV, BWV and VWL), than the reverse. But even if were exactly the same, the sheer volume of SSR will overshadow the rest.

While we will have to wait and see if this is a major problem, no reason to wait to get burned for what I want. And unfortunately, it's likely we won't have real data to judge this by. What we'd need is the percent of people from one resort staying at another (by resort on both ends) plus a measure of unsuccessful attempts, again, not data we have for DVC. We do have that data for II and BVTC.

Dean I would agree if there were no such thing as resales or if resales were forbidden. No one HAS to buy SSR if they want to get in. It cannot possibly be that the majority of SSR owners bought to just get in . If this were the case do you think they would not have even considered a resale? I mean everyone knows this is a timeshare and they are purchasing right to stay in a specific unit. They know trading is an option but not a guarantee. So why with all this information would they still buy SSR instead of resale? WHy wouldn't they just buy at the resort they love than "settle" with SSR. The 12 extra years could not be that attractive if they don't like the resort.

I honestly cannot agree with the arguement that SSR owners bought to just get in. There are plenty of resales out there for people to pick the resort they prefer.

 

[greenban]

Dean I would agree if there were no such thing as resales or if resales were forbidden. No one HAS to buy SSR if they want to get in. It cannot possibly be that the majority of SSR owners bought to just get in . If this were the case do you think they would not have even considered a resale? I mean everyone knows this is a timeshare and they are purchasing right to stay in a specific unit. They know trading is an option but not a guarantee. So why with all this information would they still buy SSR instead of resale? WHy wouldn't they just buy at the resort they love than "settle" with SSR. The 12 extra years could not be that attractive if they don't like the resort.

I honestly cannot agree with the arguement that SSR owners bought to just get in. There are plenty of resales out there for people to pick the resort they prefer.

Again your argument comes from the DIS view. How many first time DVC buyers know about resales, other than DVC's $89.00 a point resale?

We are a different breed here.

-Tony