A different perspective on D23

[cchev]

Disney is running the promotions you list because they are hurting...not out of the goodness of their hearts.

The buy 4 get 3 free promo is not some humanitarian effort. It's a way to fill empty hotels.

As for giving money back by offering the dining plan....well....the dining plan keeps people on Disney property and not spending money elsewhere, so again, I'm sorry but I dont view it the same way you do.

As for the military and GKTW.....thats awesome. Disney is a very charitable organization, but thats beside the point and not germain to this discussion at all.

You do not need to campaign for me to love Disney. I moved 1200 miles to be closer to Disney. My job revolves around Disney. I live 15 miles away from Disney. I'm an annual passholder. We own DVC. Trust me....I love Disney.

It's THIS particular "fan club" that I think is an enormous and disappointing failure.

And as for Disney being good at helping people afford vacations....that is their job. They sell vacations They are one of the top vacation destinations in the world. They NEED to help people take vacations or this limb of the business withers.

I don't think you're going to find too many companies that make economic decisions on a "humanitarian effort". I need not tell you that almost EVERY industry makes decisions on an economic basis (only one that I can think of that isn't off the top of my head is academic medicine, but I'm biased ). But just because they are benefitting doesn't mean it isn't good for the consumers. I guarantee that all of those coffee and airline loyalty clubs are good for their business and that is why they do it isn't just to be nice.

 

[Matt@WDWR]

Like Kevin said, you don't have to give me a loyalty program to prove my love of Disney. However there is a business model that many Disney execs are missing out.

I live near Atlanta. It's about a 6 hour drive to WDW. It's about a 6 hour drive to many interesting places as well. Once Disney stopped giving weekend discounts, I cut my WDW visits from about 16 a year to about 6 a year. I used to go 2 "9 day vacations" a year and then supplemented it with 3-4 day weekends at F&W, Flower and Garden, marathons, parties, etc.

Once I stopped getting discounts on weekends, I just didn't find those superflous weekend visits worth it. I decided to go to Charleston, Colonial Williamsburgh, St. George Island, Tybee Island, etc.


Disney does not seem to grasp loss of income based on their selfish changes. When D23 was announced or hinted too, I thought Disney had finally understood what they had done. Sadly, I was naive. I just don't think Disney has figured out what their selfishness has done to their bottomline.

You can only count on "new guests" for so much of a yearly visit. The regulars have been ignored for a long time. I still don't think Disney marketers have figured out that their greed has pushed a MAJOR portion of their guests away.

For example... in 2007, I was at WDW for 40 days. in 2009, I am booked for only 19. If any other visitors are like me, think about the loss of income. This is not even considering my pin addictiion. hahaha

 

[DisneyKevin]

I guarantee that all of those coffee and airline loyalty clubs are good for their business and that is why they do it isn't just to be nice.

You have stated my point exactly.

The difference is that other companies reward loyalty even during the best of times, not only when times are rough.

And times are rough...even at Disney. The local news today ran a rather long story about the long term Disney employees being laid off. These arent the folks being offered buy-outs. These are the folks that are getting told on Friday that they wont be needed Monday. One man had been with Disney 22 years.

 

[cchev]

a couple things i have missed, or in some cases chose to not understand...

What is the debate about a loyalty program, and where is that coming from? I realize that Disney doesn't have one, and probably should... but D23 seems more like a marketing gimmik for exclusive goods. The website in and of itself seems to be completely accessible with or with out a membership (cept for the shopping). As with all things, if you don't think it is worth it, don;t buy it. I don't think it is worth it. But I don't think it is evil. I also don't think it will get better, I remember an entertainment card that disney put out with a magazine, but you got travel discounts with it. that was kinda worth it. then they discontinued it with no fan fare, just never let any one renew.

does there really need to be a heated debate on this?

I completely agree with you....the only reason I am caring to try to defend D23 is mainly because it seems as if EVERYONE has a ton of malice against it that I don't think is necessarily due...is it great, no...but its not horrible either. Disney does a great job in so many other ways, just because this one club isn't all about consumer savings does not mean we all get angry. I can think of other things that I would like Disney to change/change back but this isn't a bad thing....it might not be what people wanted, but its not bad...the website has some good stuff and its free so even if you don't pay money you benefit.

 

[cchev]

You have stated my point exactly.

The difference is that other companies reward loyalty even during the best of times, not only when times are rough.

And times are rough...even at Disney. The local news today ran a rather long story about the long term Disney employees being laid off. These arent the folks being offered buy-outs. These are the folks that are getting told on Friday that they wont be needed Monday. One man had been with Disney 22 years.

Along with many other many corporations also laying people off...Disney isn't unique in this...just look at Radio and automotives.

And I really did think that the prospective approach of a reasonable season pas surpasses the retrospective loyalty program like the coffee...and the season passes are available all the time, even when times are good for Disney. (this seems to be mainly where we differ in our views...I see the season pass as a loyalty thing in itself since it has the same effect and doesn't really work with many other models....and I know you don't think this counts lol)

 

[DisneyKevin]

Disney does a great job in so many other ways, just because this one club isn't all about consumer savings does not mean we all get angry.

Not angry....I just disagree with you.

 

[Matt@WDWR]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

 

[redrosesix]

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

I have to agree with you to a point. But if it really took them 3 years to develop the idea, they could have done so much better -- it's not very often that so many fans are completely underwhelmed by something new at Disney. If the fans thought up better ideas than what it actually turned out to be, then they screwed up.

It's not as if Disney doesn't have experience in bringing out new products to please fans and make more money. Take TSM for example -- when we went to WDW last year, we knew they were building it. When we went this year, we finally got to ride it after going to rope drop, following the hoards of people to Pixar Place, standing in line for fp, and then waiting another hour to ride it -- and we were not disappointed.

Sorry, D23 is the equivalent of the Narnia ride. And Disney is not going to get a pass from me -- they should have known better.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I see the season pass as a loyalty thing in itself since it has the same effect and doesn't really work with many other models....and I know you don't think this counts lol)

I dont see it as a loyalty program.

I see it as a way to bring people into the Disney parks to spend money during the slower seasons.

People in the parks spend money.

 

[cchev]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

And I completely agree with you. I know how they treat many of their hardcore fans....I just don't think that this is really what they are trying to do with this one. I agree with the anger towards that stuff but I think they actually thought they were doing something good with this and misfired...and not that they are purposely screwing over loyal fans like they have on other occasions.

I don't see Disney as an infallible golden calf...I just don't think that this is quite the lack of affection towards loyal fans as people are making it and more of a "oops I guess we got wrong what fans want". I guarantee there is at least one guy who really thought this would be great who is very disappointed right now that the fans don't like it.

I know we disagree but I think what we disagree on is much smaller details than it seems.

And thanks...I try to be nice

 

[Matt@WDWR]

I see your avatar and I wonder if you will yank out my tooth that hurts so bad. haha

Disney will always have my business. However, I don't think they respect my business. If they did, I would come more. The more they treat me as a bother or not a concern, the more I just will lessen my extra visits. Not out of spite, but because Disney no longer is as special a destination as it once was.

 

[cchev]

Oh and please don't mistake my discussion in any way of insinuating that your opinion is wrong...it is just your opinion (and many others apparently haha) and mine is different. I am not offended or upset with any discussion on the matter and have enjoyed sharing views on the topic and gaining more insight into the matter through it. Thanks for indulging me and being creative, funny, and insightful in your responses.

Freedom is speech is great

 

[cchev]

I see your avatar and I wonder if you will yank out my tooth that hurts so bad. haha

Disney will always have my business. However, I don't think they respect my business. If they did, I would come more. The more they treat me as a bother or not a concern, the more I just will lessen my extra visits. Not out of spite, but because Disney no longer is as special a destination as it once was.

Ha maybe not your tooth but if you need a kidney done let me know

And again, I have to agree with you. Disney dining in general has gone way down in variety, the drink menus are now homogenous in the restaurants, you can find MGM pins in EPCOT, etc....a big loss of uniqueness in the parks...and there's lots more of course that I miss and has been changed.

So we ARE mostly in agreement ha

 

[DisneyKevin]

Using Bob Iger's words...."something for Disney's highest affinity group" excited me as I truly consider myself as part of that description.

I feel disappointed as I dont think this program offers anything for me.

If Disney had wanted to thrill the "highest affinity group", they could have put out a pricey coffee table book about the archives and history of Disney. I would have easiy plopped down a couple hundred bucks for something that juicy....but alas...they didnt do that. Instead...and this is the way I see it....they have offered me a pricey magazine subscription tied to a marketing program designed to extract more money

I have not seen the magazine yet...but some of the descriptions have been mediocre at best. "Too thin"..."lacking in information"...etc. I'll reserve judgement but $16 is a lot for a magazine. I bought Walt's 900 page biography for $21.00

I also dont think anyone has accused Disney of screwing over fans. Disney still offers a very fine product....in fact, I think they are better at what they do well than anyone else in the world.

I think the disappointment rises from a lot of folks feeling that they belonged to the group Bob Iger described and after "3 years in the making"....they feel they are left out again.

 

[Matt@WDWR]

Yeah, Bob Iger's own words raised my excitement too. I have no problem with overpaying for certain things because Disney has always provided a good product. However, I felt that D23 and it's offerings was openly mocking me and other fellow Disney fans.

 

[LudwigVB]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

You raise a very good point that has been bothering me about D23's current conception. I love the fan-initiated blogs, forums, and events like MouseFest, and I think that Disney could possibly enhance and take those ideas to a new level by offering rarities not accessible to even the most hardcore blogger. However, I also see this as Disney's attempt to co-opt the fan realm, perhaps not intentionally, but inevitably rendering them idle.

For instance, there are some genuine geeks in the D23 department that love the idea of MouseFest and want to give it more substance without detracting from the grassroots online community. So, the fan sites are invited to host exhibits at the expo. However, along with the blessing of Disney comes the regulations of Disney, meaning no Dis Unplugged Toy Story Mania parties (or at least parties of the same caliber). Eventually, D23 expo takes the same turn as the Disneyana Conventions, overcharging the fan sites for exhibit space and over-regulating activities, until the fan sites pull out. Finally, having lost those motivated leaders of the online community who labor relentlessly out of love, the D23 expo fizzles out, with the bridges between Disney and the fan leaders burned. We are left without MouseFest or D23 expo.

Of course, this is a doomsday scenario. But, by judging Disney's history of mismanaging these sorts of things, it is not at all improbable. I hope the best for D23 and want it to be a smashing success. There are elements in the Disney Company now, such as Lasseter's leadership and others, that could change Disney's modus operandi. Based on our reactions, Disney missed the mark on the rollout. However based on the free content, I think there is real potential. I am not sure that I can justify the $75 price as the membership benefits currently stand. But, I look forward to what the free website will continue to offer.

 

[GIR-Prototype]

This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

You missed my point entirely.

I do not feel or believe that a Loyalty Program would benefit anyone but a very small, miniscule portion of the amount of people who attend Disney parks worldwide. That being said, it would not be a very good marketing tool as a small target audience means a small return. It is well proven that Disney likes to take care of their guests, but it is only practical to offer items, programs, and services that are profitable.

D23 was not meant to be a loyalty program, and it should not be; the way it is now is actually a marketing tool more accurately crafted to reach a larger amount of people, aimed at using history, tradition, trivia, and a mix of unknown and known incentives, via a mixed-media vehicle. All designed to encourage the establishment and support (through special purchases and activities) of a sense of a tradition, "The Disney way."

A loyalty program just isn't efficient for everything Disney. My previous post broke that down and explained how two of the ways that it could be applied are inneffective at reaching a large target audience and thus being effective marketing tools.

 

[cchev]

Yeah, Bob Iger's own words raised my excitement too. I have no problem with overpaying for certain things because Disney has always provided a good product. However, I felt that D23 and it's offerings was openly mocking me and other fellow Disney fans.

I still maintain that I think that they thought they were doing something good that people would like and did not intend to mock people or anything of the such. Even if its not what people were expecting it isn't "bad". I understand the disappointment towards the lack of support of loyal fans but I think it is being misdirected towards something that isn't even that big of a deal. (But I would by no means be adverse if they improve it either...such as a private club area in the parks for members etc...)

Again I state that I almost always agree with this podcast and its views and understand being disappointed as a loyal fan...I just don't know if I can focus on something that they tried to do right (but obviously failed) as the heart of what's wrong with their relationship with the loyal fans. I think there are much better examples.

 

[Matt@WDWR]

I am sure the Disney marketeers/morons who created this didn't do so with ill intention. I just think they are clueless.

 

[cchev]

I am sure the Disney marketeers/morons who created this didn't do so with ill intention. I just think they are clueless.

I would agree with that....must be to have taken away the Adv. Club too...still recovering from that decision. If this conversation was going on with that topic I would be STRONGLY on the other side ha....they took something away that was obviously loved by loyal Disney people...that really gets to me. The reason this just doesn't get to me if because they weren't actively doing anything bad to fans...they just didn't quite hit their mark on the nose.