A Big part of the Big Problem... Staffing

[dioxide45]

Too many people just lump all employers together in one large group. The staffing issues of a large corporation are very different. Can many large publicly held companies afford to pay more by cutting into their profits? Sure. But the mom and pop places likely can’t. These are the same businesses still barely holding on post covid. The ones who don’t have a battalion of lawyers and accountants on staff to maximize what relief funds they could got while big companies and NBA stars got theirs.

This is one reason why Amazon is a proponent of minimum wage increases. They know they can afford to pay it (even though they don't really want to), but then when smaller operations are mandated to pay the higher wage, it makes those other companies less competitive and Amazon can drive them out of business. Who wins here? Amazon. This isn't isolated to just Amazon.

 

[dioxide45]

So, you two rarely see each other. That doesn't sound like it's good for the marriage or the family.

Maybe you should both work 8-5 (preferably at jobs that pay 2-3x what you get paid now), get grandparents to stay in your home during the day watching the kids, then all eat supper together at 5, have family bonding time 5-9 (board games, tell stories, go out somewhere as a family), then wife/husband time 9-11.

If you're not doing EXACTLY THIS, then you're not doing it right. /s

Odd advice from someone who doesn't know the personal situation of the poster. They should be doing EXACTLY THAT? Are you a marriage counselor? What works for you or others may not work for everyone. Everyone's personal situation is different. Do you even know if the grandparents live in the same town or city? Perhaps they have passed away. Does everyone need personal time with their spouse every single day? Why not just on weekends?

 

[bbeagle]

Odd advice from someone who doesn't know the personal situation of the poster. They should be doing EXACTLY THAT? Are you a marriage counselor? What works for you or others may not work for everyone. Everyone's personal situation is different. Do you even know if the grandparents live in the same town or city? Perhaps they have passed away. Does everyone need personal time with their spouse every single day? Why not just on weekends?

If you noticed my '/s' at the end of my post, this meant SARCASM.

The original guy was stating that the 'right way' was for the wife and husband to have jobs at different times and have no daycare for the kids. I just wrote an alternative 'right way' as way for him to understand that his isn't the only way.

The BEST way is to just win the lottery, not work, hire maids, butlers and pool boys, and have the kids homeschooled by top people in the field. (no sarcasm here, this is actually the best way)

 

[dioxide45]

If you noticed my '/s' at the end of my post, this meant SARCASM.

The original guy was stating that the 'right way' was for the wife and husband to have jobs at different times and have no daycare for the kids. I just wrote an alternative 'right way' as way for him to understand that his isn't the only way.

The BEST way is to just win the lottery, not work, hire maids, butlers and pool boys, and have the kids homeschooled by top people in the field. (no sarcasm here, this is actually the best way)

Sorry, I completely missed that! Winning the lottery may not be the best way either though. Some people blow through the millions and come out broke and divorced on the other side.

 

[Jrb1979]

So, you two rarely see each other. That doesn't sound like it's good for the marriage or the family.

Maybe you should both work 8-5 (preferably at jobs that pay 2-3x what you get paid now), get grandparents to stay in your home during the day watching the kids, then all eat supper together at 5, have family bonding time 5-9 (board games, tell stories, go out somewhere as a family), then wife/husband time 9-11.

If you're not doing EXACTLY THIS, then you're not doing it right. /s

I do get that what we do doesn't work for everyone. Everyone is different and everyone values different things in how there day to day life is.

My job pays me very well to work afternoons. Switching to day shift I would lose $3 an hour.

 

[New Mouse]

Why would a company overpay for labor? Who wants to overpay for anything?

Companies should pay market wages. They aren't charities. They aren't employee's mommies and daddies who love them and try to make their life as easy as possible.

But I understand why you think they should overpay. Disney did virtue signal with their $15 minimum wage for positive press. Everybody knows most of those jobs aren't really worth $15 an hour. They thought they would be held up as saviors while other companies lagged behind. What they didn't count on was covid and stupid decisions hosing up the labor market and putting them behind again so quickly. Now they are in a bind. Disney was already expensive. Now, with rising labor costs and inflation, they know that they could soon be hitting the limits of what customers are willing to pay. And if a recession comes, expect carnage at TWDC.

You realize market forces exist in the labor market as well, right? Disney is not paying market wages which is why people don't really care to work for them right now. They aren't the only ones.

Things like perks and hours factor in but in general these demands aren't being met hence they are now understaffed. You aren't going to magically grow people who want to work at $15 an hour and solve this problem.

 

[nancipants]

Such a center already exists, there is a YMCA Child Care center for Disney employees that has been there for many years.

And there is an extremely long wait list to get in.

 

[DisneyByMarriage]

I’m on all sides of this discussion - I was unemployed during Covid and couldn’t return as we didn’t have childcare/my husband works in the Restaurant industry. He is someone who happened to start 14 years ago as a server and is now a GM. In 2021, I took a part time job I was overqualified for. Then I found a full time job and cut the part time one to one day a week. I kept working there because it pays VERY well and the people I work for and with are awesome. But if it was a typical corporate part time job I probably would have left. So the unquantifiable benefits do matter. We also don’t have family support, so my kids are either in school, at after cares, or home with myself or my husband.

Long winded way to say that I think the biggest issue with Disney’s staffing, which my husband is also facing, is that people are questioning hourly positions more and have found other ways to make work/life/financial balance work since March of 2019.

 

[dez1978]

Too many people just lump all employers together in one large group. The staffing issues of a large corporation are very different. Can many large publicly held companies afford to pay more by cutting into their profits? Sure. But the mom and pop places likely can’t. These are the same businesses still barely holding on post covid. The ones who don’t have a battalion of lawyers and accountants on staff to maximize what relief funds they could got while big companies and NBA stars got theirs.

I have said this multiple times and just get told then those mom and pop places need to reevaluate their business models. Walmart and the local diner cannot be expected to pay the same or to offer the same benefits. Walmart can certainly afford to pay more per hour and prob still rake in billions. The local diner is barely holding on as is between rising food costs,utilities etc. I know several restaraunt owners who are losing $ like crazy right now and just hoping to be able to make it thru to the other side. And sure, they'd love to be able to pay everyone more, but then the choice is raising prices, which everyone is already doing anyway, or just closing the doors.

 

[SteveH]

And there is an extremely long wait list to get in.

Sad but from my undrstanding its an issue nationwide. I was told that a large number of home care providers left the industry during covid and never returned, to compound the problem child behaviors have pushed even more out. I'm happy those years are beyond me, but from my team members I understand the challenge.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have said this multiple times and just get told then those mom and pop places need to reevaluate their business models.

I don't think that's an accurate representation at least from what I remember on discussions in the past.

When people have talked about mom and pop style places they understand the margins are lower such that paying too high becomes problematic and generally I'd say people take these jobs knowing mostly they aren't getting paid $$$. Where mom and pop style places get into trouble is workplace environments, scheduling issues and usually benefits. When those are an issue then the pay often comes up.

Restaurants are a more unique thing presently speaking because of the pandemic but ordinarily if you're getting paid crap but also being treated like crap and/or not getting many hours that mom and pop style place is probably going to lose an employee to somewhere else.

 

[Jrb1979]

I’m on all sides of this discussion - I was unemployed during Covid and couldn’t return as we didn’t have childcare/my husband works in the Restaurant industry. He is someone who happened to start 14 years ago as a server and is now a GM. In 2021, I took a part time job I was overqualified for. Then I found a full time job and cut the part time one to one day a week. I kept working there because it pays VERY well and the people I work for and with are awesome. But if it was a typical corporate part time job I probably would have left. So the unquantifiable benefits do matter. We also don’t have family support, so my kids are either in school, at after cares, or home with myself or my husband.

Long winded way to say that I think the biggest issue with Disney’s staffing, which my husband is also facing, is that people are questioning hourly positions more and have found other ways to make work/life/financial balance work since March of 2019.

Agreed. I see on social media posted a lot about people finding "side hustles" for jobs. An example is promoting products online for income.

 

[xipotec]

Why would a company overpay for labor? Who wants to overpay for anything?

Companies should pay market wages. They aren't charities. They aren't employee's mommies and daddies who love them and try to make their life as easy as possible.

But I understand why you think they should overpay. Disney did virtue signal with their $15 minimum wage for positive press. Everybody knows most of those jobs aren't really worth $15 an hour. They thought they would be held up as saviors while other companies lagged behind. What they didn't count on was covid and stupid decisions hosing up the labor market and putting them behind again so quickly. Now they are in a bind. Disney was already expensive. Now, with rising labor costs and inflation, they know that they could soon be hitting the limits of what customers are willing to pay. And if a recession comes, expect carnage at TWDC.

This is so one sided. Disney shouldn't overpay? But only pay market wages? So when its in their favor they should rake in the profits by paying as little as possible, but when we have a tight labor market, they still shouldnt pay because they don't wanna?

Thats not how free market is supposed to work.

Its also why they are having suck a bad time at the parks with guest satisfaction.

If they market is showing labor to be more expensive, thats part of doing business. Choose to ignore that, and don't be shocked when your business suffers.

Sounds like employer side crying that “no one wants to work”…….not the reality of “no one wants your job at the pay rate your offering”

 

[RamblingMad]

This is so one sided. Disney shouldn't overpay? But only pay market wages? So when its in their favor they should rake in the profits by paying as little as possible, but when we have a tight labor market, they still shouldnt pay because they don't wanna?

Thats not how free market is supposed to work.

Its also why they are having suck a bad time at the parks with guest satisfaction.

If they market is showing labor to be more expensive, thats part of doing business. Choose to ignore that, and don't be shocked when your business suffers.

Sounds like employer side crying that “no one wants to work”…….not the reality of “no one wants your job at the pay rate your offering”

They should pay whatever it takes to properly staff. The alternative is that you have fewer people doing more, and they will end up leaving out of frustration. The reality might be that folks are bitter from their experience working at Disney and have decided to not come back when Disney started hiring again. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[SteveAZee]

Yes, a free market is about supply and demand and that's for both products and services. When the world shifts, even temporarily, so does that balance with the free market. If Disney can't get employees/cast members to work for them (and be fully staffed) at what they used to pay, then they'll either need to increase the pay scale or figure out how to do with less... or wait a while and hope the world shifts back. Their other dilemma is if they raise the pay scale for new hires, they're most likely going to raise it for everyone, since word will get out that the new people are getting paid more than the old people, and there will be those who either get annoyed and fester in their work or leave to what is clearly the new market rate somewhere else. I would guess that's why, initially, Disney was paying signing bonuses (along with a commitment to stay), since it's technically not raising their hourly rate, so they don't have to pass that increase on to everyone.

 

[RamblingMad]

Yes, a free market is about supply and demand and that's for both products and services. When the world shifts, even temporarily, so does that balance with the free market. If Disney can't get employees/cast members to work for them (and be fully staffed) at what they used to pay, then they'll either need to increase the pay scale or figure out how to do with less... or wait a while and hope the world shifts back. Their other dilemma is if they raise the pay scale for new hires, they're most likely going to raise it for everyone, since word will get out that the new people are getting paid more than the old people, and there will be those who either get annoyed and fester in their work or leave to what is clearly the new market rate somewhere else. I would guess that's why, initially, Disney was paying signing bonuses (along with a commitment to stay), since it's technically not raising their hourly rate, so they don't have to pass that increase on to everyone.

But does Disney still have the goodwill to attract talent?

 

[Tink3815]

Why? Short-sightedness. Because here is the thing. The employer who posted was teaching people a SKILL. Installing flooring. It's a skill that will help you for the rest of your life and you can turn it into a career if you have the mind and drive to do so.

Flipping burgers is not a skill. As people continue to demand higher and higher wages for unskilled labor, companies are going to continue to do the math about those robots that work 24 hours a day, do not require health care, benefits, and do not call in sick. They don't go in the backroom and hide in the boxes to avoid doing their work. They don't complain, don't sass, do their job and don't whine about wanting to work from home or demand significant raises for the same work. In fact, it's rather the opposite - their cost goes down over time.

The math will turn more and more in favor of automation the more these people make unreasonable demands for unskilled pay.

Even delivery jobs like the Uber Drivers and food delivery are relatively short in the scope of things as companies continue to invest in drones.

Skilled labor (like the ability to install floors) will be a LOT longer before they can really be automated effectively, if ever.

You make an excellant point about learning a skill. That's one thing that is not stressed in schools now.

 

[SteveAZee]

But does Disney still have the goodwill to attract talent?

Good point. I suspect there's that trade off for anyone looking for work... 'what does it pay' vs. 'how much do I want to work there'. It seems like WDW was once such a great place to work that people said (probably tongue in cheek) that they'd work there for free. Things have changed.

 

[RamblingMad]

Good point. I suspect there's that trade off for anyone looking for work... 'what does it pay' vs. 'how much do I want to work there'. It seems like WDW was once such a great place to work that people said (probably tongue in cheek) that they'd work there for free. Things have changed.

Given that they have unions, I doubt the working conditions are that great for those in the parks. Maybe it's great for those in the corporate offices. But after how Disney handled laying off folks during the shutdown, I'm sure many have moved onto greener pastures.

 

[SteveAZee]

Given that they have unions, I doubt the working conditions are that great for those in the parks.

I don't understand the connection?