$8.40+$4.11=$12.51

[Richyams]

Also, if DVC was running into a problem with weekday availability vs. weekend availability, they would just restructure the point charts - something they haven't done - which suggests there really isn't a problem.

They ARE running into that problem.

They said so in a survey we got a while back. You could see it on the occupancy percentage per night that was posted not too long ago, the new SSR point charts are painted with a more evenly distributed point schedule.

So there IS a problem and this problem DOES increase our dues.

Obviously, members can and do use their points whenever they want, those that do avoid weekends like the plague are doing us all a diservice and contributing to the problem.

These renters use NO WEEKENDS AT ALL, all you ever see is Sun-Thur. We may have the odd renter that somes and says that they rented a weekend, but virtually every rented night is a weekday.

So this does contribute to lower occupany rates which does increase our dues and it also makes it more likely that they will redistribute the points.

So we all get hurt by renting and hurt badly by people in the point renting business.

 

[golfnut1264]

Rich,
Were do you get your info...does disney publish there occupancy somewhere and you know noone stays on weekends...i laways stay 10-12 nights..i am not changing hotels to save points..i am sure some do..but every friday and saturday night that i have stayed ..the resort seems pretty crowded..there are 10 of thousands memebers..i find it hard to beleive that you think nobody stays on weekends...even if you go with what your read on this board it is such a small sampling..and also i have never not gotten the reservation i wanted because i plan ahead and call at the 11 month window to the minute..

 

[Richyams]

We have had the occupancy rate by night posted here several times. It very clearly shows the highest vacancy rates on the weekends.

 

[RobDoc]

DVC hasn't published any of that information for a number of years, but sometimes CM's will share that a given resort is at 94% or 82% and that information has been passed along on the boards. Hardly a conclusive study, but interesting information nonetheless.

I still have tough time finding any relationship of lower occupancy levels on weekends (if it truly is lower) and our dues. It would seem that empty rooms would save maintenance fees, since there are fewer supplies used and staff costs are lower when rooms don't have to be cleaned as often.

As for the condemnation of those who don't stay on weekends, I seem to recall that a certain member who stays primarily in OKW GV's even has 12 night stays that include only one weekend- thus contributing to the same issue termed a "disservice" when others do it. Can't have it both ways- either Sunday-Thurs is OK for everyone or it's not- including those who rent. I'll suggest that far more members elude weekend nights than the small nunber of guests who rent DVC points from any source (that's just my opinion- I don't have any data to support the comment).

I'd also be interested in where the data comes from that supports the "These renters use NO WEEKENDS AT ALL, all you ever see is Sun-Thur. " statement. Perhaps some liberty has been taken with the facts ... or perhaps that's just a personal opinion used to support a personal opinion?

So this does contribute to lower occupany rates which does increase our dues and it also makes it more likely that they will redistribute the points.

So we all get hurt by renting and hurt badly by people in the point renting business.

Points haven't been redistributed for 10 years now (1996 was the last change and we now have the 2005 point charts). If this has been such a large problem, it could have been addressed long before now. I still fail to see where anyone has been "hurt badly by people in the point renting business." I certainly haven't been affected at all.

 

[dvcgirl]

Very well said Doc. My next question was also going to be "how is that dues go up because of lowest occupancy on weekends?"

I think that the miniscule number of renters who are looking for top dollar on Ebay have absolutely zero effect on our membership. How many members are there now....70,000? How many "Sun-Thurs DVC vacations for top dollar" are being auctioned off on Ebay each year?

Most of us who rent out some unused points are like the renters you see here on these boards. We rent by the point, not by the vacation. And when I rent to my friends and family I am sure to point out that it's cheaper for them to check in on Sunday and out on a Friday. However, most of them usually opt to check in on a Saturday for convenience sake.

 

[timC]

Originally posted by Richyams

They ARE running into that problem.

They said so in a survey we got a while back. You could see it on the occupancy percentage per night that was posted not too long ago, the new SSR point charts are painted with a more evenly distributed point schedule.

We analyzed the new SSR points chart a few months back ( see SSR Point Chart Comparison ). They are indeed more evenly distributed than the current OKW points charts. However, we also found the weekday/weekend ratios for SSR to be in alignment with BWV, VWL, and BCV.

Rich. Perhaps the issues you are concerned with are specific to OKW.

 

[tinkgrl]

Hi,

I thought I'd say something about this. I am renting from someone to go to HH in May 2004. I thought I was going to rent for BCV as well but I decided against it because a few people wanted between 30% & 50% down, I felt that was too much! Anyone agree with me? My HH person is MUCH more agreeable!!! If I ever rent to anyone I will be fair & reasonable! We aren't in DVC to make $$$. Its to have fun & get away from things for a little while.

Thanks,
Allison an associate

 

[dvcgirl]

I don't know how I'd handle the deposit thing if I rented to a stranger. I've only rented to one stranger, but that person was another DVCer. He paypaled me the $$$ and then I okayed the transfer of points as soon as I saw the money in my account. I guess there has to be some degree of trust. He was obviously *very* trustworthy to send 100% of the money up front. But transferring points is a tricky thing too. Once you move them they can't be moved back. We spoke on the phone and I asked him how he'd like to finish the transaction and it was his idea to go that route.

If I was holding the reservation in my name, I guess I'd want at least 25% up front working up to full payment within 30 days of the reservation so that if they backed out my points wouldn't end up in holding.

What kind of deal did you get through your renter?

 

[golfnut1264]

When I sell on ebay i require full payment. They won an auction and must pay up front...but so they are not too skeptical i book thier reservations first in their names and fax them the confirm # and phone to confirm their ressies than I tell them to send me a personal check..i dont make them send money order or certified checks..i figure that someone wanting a disney vacation is not out to beat anyone out of anything and i can always cancel if their check bounces or i never recieve it...noone has ever had a problem with that..i have never had a sitaution were somebody had to cancel their week but i would work with them to get another week if i could use the smae points...i dont sell specific weeks..i just sell 5 nights sun-thurs of course..the winner of the auction picks the week and if avail i book ..that usually all takes place before they actually win the auction..they email me to check on weeks and if available they still are not locked into the auction..i must have checked 20 diff dates for all different people to sell 1 vacation..it is not all it cracked up to be...alot of work when the auction is going..alot of peolple use you for info and you never haer from them again..goes witht the territory..

 

[DSNY FN]

Golfnut you are exactly right I must have gotten about 50 emails for the 2 auctions I had for points all from people just basicvally wanting info about DVC etc and how it worked and checking dates. I am also a Sun - Thursday user I never stay on weekends we move to All Stars or a moderate to save on points thus ensuring a longer Disney vacation I have no problems doing that or with anyone else doing it. Heck I lok at it this way I get to be at the place I love going to longer by doing this so why not I only get one vacation a year it is going to be a good one.

 

[JLS]

I joined DVC because we found about renting and then when we did it we liked the accommodations so much that we stopped by the sales office. (We did stay over a weekend, by the way). I don't think that is something we would have considered if we had not "tried out" DVC through the renting process.

I have read the posts above and nothing has convinced me that the value of our DVC memberships are being hurt by renters. Renters own their points - it makes no difference to anyone's membership whether the renter stays at DVC and uses all of those points or whether renter in a private financial transaction allows someone else to use his points for a particular stay.

One of the arguments people use against renting is the emotional argument "wouldn't you be upset if you could not book at Christmas because people like Nuthut have reserved 10 2-bedrooms and are auctioning them off on Ebay." Well, the point is that you would be mad because you couldn't book. What if Nuthut and his gazillion points decided to treat everyone in his extended family to a week at WDW during Christmas - assuming he was the first to book, he could have reserved all those rooms for his and friends' use rather than auctioning off those vacations. The issue is the same - you are mad because someone else booked and you cannot. BUT - the key is that everyone who owns points has the same opportunity to book at those key times. So if you want they key times, you have to make sure you reserve them. TO me, this has nothing to do with the practice of renting.

I like renting because it gives us OPTIONS - the flexibility of DVC is the reason I was able to convince my husband to buy in. If there is a year that we want to spend at a resort where we cannot trade in, I like the fact that we can rent our points for the "going rate" (not getting into THAT discussion) and then use that money to vacation elsewhere. I look at it as more flexibility. I don't understand why owners of DVC want to pass additional rules that restrict their membership. IMHO, I think some people are spending too much time worrying about what others do with their points.

 

[poj7]

Hi.

If someone likes to use points on the weekend and cautions those people who only stay Sun-Thurs because it "throws off the point balance" then I don't see what harm a redistribution of points would have on the weekend point user. Maybe the points should be the same every night. Certainly, the weekend point user would welcome this redistribution.

 

[jade1]

If you have a room key and it shows you are staying on points for friday night and/or Saturday night-you get to go to the front of the line on any epress line ride (like Universal). That way we would all reserve rooms for the weekend I believe. Just a wierd thought.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by JLS
... One of the arguments people use against renting is the emotional argument "wouldn't you be upset if you could not book at Christmas because people like Nuthut have reserved 10 2-bedrooms and are auctioning them off on Ebay." Well, the point is that you would be mad because you couldn't book. What if Nuthut and his gazillion points decided to treat everyone in his extended family to a week at WDW during Christmas - assuming he was the first to book, he could have reserved all those rooms for his and friends' use rather than auctioning off those vacations. The issue is the same - you are mad because someone else booked and you cannot. BUT - the key is that everyone who owns points has the same opportunity to book at those key times. So if you want they key times, you have to make sure you reserve them. TO me, this has nothing to do with the practice of renting.

As a renter, you may have this bias, but I think it misses the heart of what those who are expressing an opposing view are saying. DVC was established as family vacation ownership, not a timeshare rental business to make a 10% profit. The point system was established based on a balance of use patterns. The point structure between weekends and seasons were set up that way. Renting points on e-bay as a regular business venture distorts that balance pattern, and is not the intended use of DVC. It's not jsut that one cannot get reservations, it's an abuse of the point balance pattern we purchased for pretty substantial amounts of money.

If you are a renter, go for it, I regularly recommend to people to rent points through the DIS board to try DVC out. I dissagree with the intent of e-bay for-profit renting practices by DVC members. My understanding is that it is also a mis use of this forum and potentially an illegal business practice to attempt price setting for renting points.

 

[childsplay]

Originally posted by golfnut1264
..i must have checked 20 diff dates for all different people to sell 1 vacation..

No wonder my dues keep going up
Sorry, I could'nt resist

 

[golfnut1264]

childsplay

please explain how i affect your dues....i dont understand your post at all...i can guarantee you that your dues dont go up because i called member servicer 20 times in a week once a year...get a clue

sorry i couldnt resist

 

[gmboy95]

I am no lawyer, but i think one time that all the owners in major league baseball got together and decided they would control the salaries being paid...they where sued by the players, and lost millions.

I would think if DVc owners banded together to control the price of points, we all could be sued as well for collusion....I think???

 

[golfnut1264]

sue for what...know i have heard it all..comparing dvc members with the strongest and most powerful union in the world..the players association...you need to compare apples to apples..by the way it is obvious you are not a lawyer....

 

[Dean]

People forget that DVC was created for one reason and one reason only, to make money for Disney. All this other stuff is in the eye of the beholder. To say that DVD intended this to be used only for families is reading way too much into the equation, DVC could care less about the other stuff including the usage picture. I'm sure they didn't intend on any major renting or resale options for purely selfish reasons, not for altruistic ones. The references for personal use are a throwback to usual timeshare tactics of suggesting people buy and telling them they can rent and make a profit. This is a common tactic with many timeshare sales, it just happens to be somewhat true with DVC and a few other options.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by Dean
People forget that DVC was created for one reason and one reason only, to make money for Disney. All this other stuff is in the eye of the beholder. To say that DVD intended this to be used only for families is reading way too much into the equation, DVC could care less about the other stuff including the usage picture. I'm sure they didn't intend on any major renting or resale options for purely selfish reasons, not for altruistic ones. The references for personal use are a throwback to usual timeshare tactics of suggesting people buy and telling them they can rent and make a profit. This is a common tactic with many timeshare sales, it just happens to be somewhat true with DVC and a few other options.

Well, I don't know that the above can be classified as factual information, I understand that it expresses your viewpoint.

My perception from the management books I read about Disney practices is they understand how so called "altruistic" reasons like a family approach help drive Disney's ability to "make money".

I also think it is probably that those who regularly rent out thier points are projecting a large bias into this discussion to help rationalize why they can continue rental practices. I see it as detrimental to members to take prime point holiday weeks and rent them on ebay for profit and agree when you say "I'm sure they didn't intend on any major renting or resale options...". That is not the intent of DVC sales or ownership, and an abuse of the system as designed, regardless if people get away with it or not.

We also seem to witness a "hit and run" approach with this topic, where it is posted regularly or resurected regularly by a couple of posters in an effort to price hike or set rental prices. Those practices do not seem like an appropriate use of this forum.