5th theme park?

[cristen]

To me, E:E provides a sensory experience and grandeur not offered anywhere else.

How? May I ask for specifics? I would just like to know exactly where you are coming from. Is it the queue? The Yeti? The backwards sensation?

You say not offered anywhere else, but like it has been said before, the yeti is in the Matterhorn. Hell, I was riding Colossus backwards in the 80's and Revenge of the Mummy has the backwards thing going on already before EE had it. So, technically, it is offered somewhere else.

EE suffers from the same thing that the MK does. It's not the original, and Bigger doesn't always = better.

 

[dbm20th]

How? May I ask for specifics? I would just like to know exactly where you are coming from. Is it the queue? The Yeti? The backwards sensation?

Yes and more. The amazing scope of the mountain as you rumble through it. The details like the sounds of the birds screaching and the Yeti roaring in the distance. Or the owl that seems to say "See Ya!" as you plunge backwards. How it seems to be quiet and peaceful as it launches and goes up the mountain in near silence. If you've been on it, then you probably know what I mean. I don't however, expect everyone to agree with me. We're all entitled to our opinions.

But again, that's not the point of the topic here. The point is that it's awesome, and so are the other things produced in the last year.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

don't get me wrong dbm20th, I see your point. We do all establish our own personal lists of greatness but I still think true innovation can be seen beyond that. I think E:E is great but it isn't extremely innovative... and I see that I've just turned my own words against myself (stinking semantics).

Soarin' was innovative but I'm not sure it was great. You know you're watching a movie, you can see other guests feet and the choppy movie isn't conducieve to really putting you there, IMO. So Soarin' was innovative (as far as I know - I had seen nothing like this before) but not great. E:E is great in that it uses some new coaster tricks, is well themed and fun but not particuarily innovative...It's still just a coaster that's not offering any truely unexpected breakthroughs.

 

[Another Voice]

It's the first coaster that has wowed me with everything from construction, to theme, to story, to ride, and on and on.

But no one cares about what "wows" you.

The ultimate call is made by the general public. They are the only ones that really, truly determine if an attraction has the "wow" factor.

Remember 'Mission: Space' and how some claimed it was the greatest ride ever? Now not only don't people book trips to WDW to see it, most people at Epcot don't even bother with it.

Newness has it's excitment - but if that is all an attraction can offer than it's doomed. Newness wears off quick. I remember when 'Star Tours' was considered the be-all and end-all of Disney attractions. Now the "fans" are demanding that it be torn down because it's "old and boring".

The question is does anything that Disney has made or is "rumored" offer real excitment - or just the short lived buzz of "the new"?

The level that a place like WDW has to aim for is pretty high. They are a very expensive place to visit. It takes a lot to convince Joe Tourist to drop a couple house payments to take the kiddies on Dumbo. Getting them exicted is where Disney wins or looses as a business. It's a tall order and very, very difficult to pull off. And it's a lot different standard than pleasing someone with a three trips a year habit that fanwanks about glories of Beastly Kingdom.

Real people expect to see what Disney has always provided them - experience both unique and imaginative. Trival improvements and "nice" additions are pleasant enough, but they're not going to get the job done.

 

[dbm20th]

Real people expect to see what Disney has always provided them - experience both unique and imaginative. Trival improvements and "nice" additions are pleasant enough, but they're not going to get the job done.

And if no one cares about what I consider a "wow", then the same can be said for what you consider "trivial" or "nice". Putting Raidermatt aside, I don't see how anyone who has been on E:E can consider that trivial or nice. IMHO of course.

To me, E:E is a ride that will bring the people for many, many years. Like ToT, RnR, Splash, and so on.

 

[MJMcBride]

But no one cares about what "wows" you.

The ultimate call is made by the general public. They are the only ones that really, truly determine if an attraction has the "wow" factor.

Remember 'Mission: Space' and how some claimed it was the greatest ride ever? Now not only don't people book trips to WDW to see it, most people at Epcot don't even bother with it.

Newness has it's excitment - but if that is all an attraction can offer than it's doomed. Newness wears off quick. I remember when 'Star Tours' was considered the be-all and end-all of Disney attractions. Now the "fans" are demanding that it be torn down because it's "old and boring".

The question is does anything that Disney has made or is "rumored" offer real excitment - or just the short lived buzz of "the new"?

The level that a place like WDW has to aim for is pretty high. They are a very expensive place to visit. It takes a lot to convince Joe Tourist to drop a couple house payments to take the kiddies on Dumbo. Getting them exicted is where Disney wins or looses as a business. It's a tall order and very, very difficult to pull off. And it's a lot different standard than pleasing someone with a three trips a year habit that fanwanks about glories of Beastly Kingdom.

Real people expect to see what Disney has always provided them - experience both unique and imaginative. Trival improvements and "nice" additions are pleasant enough, but they're not going to get the job done.

They better not tear down Star Tours. I love that ride and so does my son. Frankly, E:E is unique and imaginative, and much more than you'll get at Six Flags. I don't even think its close.

 

[Disneybag]

I think you may be setting the bar too high. Of course E:E isn't 100% original in design. They've got the Yeti like the Matterhorn, the backwards like the Colossus and every other cookie-cutter coaster, the flipping tracks like the Mummy, the merchandise at the end like everything else at Disney... I think the lack of imagination comes into play with Aladdin's Flying Carpets, etc. THAT, to me, is where the lack of imagination lies. Disney's guilty of it in many places; the Laugh Floor is another Turtle Talk, take out Alien and put in the exact same attraction with Stich, etc. BUT, E:E and the Matterhorn are two completely different rides. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Matterhorn (it was a highlight of my 'pilgrimage' last year). E:E has a great backstory, fun queue, and an incredibly smooth ride. The Matterhorn has none of these things. E:E has what really makes Disney the ultimate park experience: the theming. It's visually beautiful when you see it from the parking lot or from the bridges leading into Asia or Africa. The best thing at Disney? No. The reason I'd go? No. Do I think people will come just from the hype of it? Yes. I think it's the premiere reason people go to AK. AK needed something like that to boost attendance. I think it's doing the job.
And on a side note, I think the new Nemo musical is the best show in any of the parks. I really enjoy it more than Lion King. One of the best things they've opened recently. Quite the opposite from what they've done with the Seas.

 

[Another Voice]

I think you may be setting the bar too high.

Not in the least.

Why shouldn't we expect the best possible efforts for our money. They tell us they'll give us "magic" if we fork over eighty bucks for a ticket - don't we have an expectation they deliver?

The very identity of Disney is based on the idea that thye deliver the really imaginative, the truely unique. They make our "wishes/dreams come true".

Now someone is telling me that "grandeur" is the view from a hundred foot pile of cement? The "innovation" is the same backwards rollercoaster that Six Flags has - oh, but this one has an owl the seems to say "so long"?

WDW needs to convince over 15 million people every year to come to the middle of swamp and plunk down a lot of money. It's been the company's history that they can do that - provided they really offer "the magic stuff" that no one else can deliver.

But now we're being told to lower our expectations. That what is "new" is somehow "magically great". The we need to match our desires what the company is planning to offer instead of what we want.

And it's funny that all of this comes at a time when Disney continues to offer big discounts and throws free food in the deal. If 'Everest' was so hot, if the auto stunt show had people rushing to make reservations, if Nemo had people already singing the soundtrack - why is Disney World hurting? Why at a time when other spots like Vegas and Hawaii can raise their hotel rates - why is Disney offering special codes and knocking down hotel rooms?

As Mr. Pirates says, instead of the latest "offerings" being so wonderful, they're merely the "good enough" new stuff to be of interest to people already going. But they're not the "wow" that are going to get people to go in the first place.

 

[minnie61650]

Not in the least.

Why shouldn't we expect the best possible efforts for our money. They tell us they'll give us "magic" if we fork over eighty bucks for a ticket - don't we have an expectation they deliver?

The very identity of Disney is based on the idea that thye deliver the really imaginative, the truely unique. They make our "wishes/dreams come true".

Now someone is telling me that "grandeur" is the view from a hundred foot pile of cement? The "innovation" is the same backwards rollercoaster that Six Flags has - oh, but this one has an owl the seems to say "so long"?

WDW needs to convince over 15 million people every year to come to the middle of swamp and plunk down a lot of money. It's been the company's history that they can do that - provided they really offer "the magic stuff" that no one else can deliver.

But now we're being told to lower our expectations. That what is "new" is somehow "magically great". The we need to match our desires what the company is planning to offer instead of what we want.

And it's funny that all of this comes at a time when Disney continues to offer big discounts and throws free food in the deal. If 'Everest' was so hot, if the auto stunt show had people rushing to make reservations, if Nemo had people already singing the soundtrack - why is Disney World hurting? Why at a time when other spots like Vegas and Hawaii can raise their hotel rates - why is Disney offering special codes and knocking down hotel rooms?

As Mr. Pirates says, instead of the latest "offerings" being so wonderful, they're merely the "good enough" new stuff to be of interest to people already going. But they're not the "wow" that are going to get people to go in the first place.

I think Disney offers the free dining because of hurricane season.
Many guests do not travel to Florida during hurricane season.

I have been posting mostly on the resorts board for the last two years. This year rooms are booking up must quicker than in past and I think some of the new attractions have a lot to with it.

WDW has raised their rates and they are filling up their rooms.

Rates for 2006

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/resorts/Rack-Rates-2006.htm#VALUE

Rates for 2007

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/disney-rates-2007.htm

Disney also has added more buildings to preferred location at their values.
6 out 10 of the buildings at ASMo are now considered preferred compared to 2 last year at this time.

Disney is also charging extra for the bunk rooms at WL and AK along with a price increase.
I think you have been misinformed if you think Disney is hurting.
In my opinion people are rushing to make reservations.


JMHO

 

[Another Voice]

Well I just checked DisneyWorld.com for a package the week before Chirstmas - one of the busiest times of the year. Not only were all of the resorts available (including the "always sold out" All Stars and Pop) - they offered me the food package for free as well.

Sure doesn't look like millions of people are flooding in soon, does it.

So I tried a date in April, just in case Disney just opened a bunch of holiday rooms or something. Again - every resort available and free food.

Now you know why Disney is knocking down all those rooms at the Animal Kingdom Lodge and the Contemporary - and why the other half of Pop Century is rotting in the sun.

 

[dbm20th]

Well I just checked DisneyWorld.com for a package the week before Chirstmas - one of the busiest times of the year. Not only were all of the resorts available (including the "always sold out" All Stars and Pop) - they offered me the food package for free as well.

Sure doesn't look like millions of people are flooding in soon, does it.

So I tried a date in April, just in case Disney just opened a bunch of holiday rooms or something. Again - every resort available and free food.

Now you know why Disney is knocking down all those rooms at the Animal Kingdom Lodge and the Contemporary - and why the other half of Pop Century is rotting in the sun.

Goes to show what you know about WDW. The week before Christmas, considering Christmas is a Monday, is IN NO WAY, the most popular time of the year AV. In fact, it's rather slow. So please, please, please STOP holding yourself as an expert of a place you can't be bothered to go to.

And every resort comes up whether it is available or not. You need to click all the way through and see if it gives you a quote. I just did POP for that week, and it is not available

 

[EUROPACL]

Goes to show what you know about WDW. The week before Christmas, considering Christmas is a Monday, is IN NO WAY, the most popular time of the year AV. In fact, it's rather slow. So please, please, please STOP holding yourself as an expert of a place you can't be bothered to go to.

....errrr...
I've been to Disney durning Christmas and it is one of the most crowded times of the year. In Fact they often close the Magic Kindom after reaching capacity the week of Christmas...I know this first hand having been turned away two different years.

...of course this was in the two years before 9-11 and well before Disney added 10,000 or so rooms in Motel 6 type buildings.

 

[dbm20th]

....errrr...
I've been to Disney durning Christmas and it is one of the most crowded times of the year. In Fact they often close the Magic Kindom after reaching capacity the week of Christmas...I know this first hand having been turned away two different years.

...of course this was in the two years before 9-11 and well before Disney added 10,000 or so rooms in Motel 6 type buildings.

That's during Christmas. Not the week before Christmas. The difference is ENORMOUS.

Got to ***************** and look at the crowd calendar for the week before Christmas. Don't take my word for it

 

[Another Voice]

The week before Christmas and the week between Christmas and New Year's has always been one of the heaviest periods at WDW. These have been the weeks most schools have traditional been out of session. The week before is usually busy with people taking a holiday trip before spending the holidays with family; the week after is usually busy with family groups coming together for a vacation together.

If you try to book a period on-line that's filled, the website will tell you (such as I tried for a stay over New Years - it suggested I pop for a suite). I was able to get a room at the Pop Century from 12/19 to 12/22 - all the way through to where it wanted my credit card number.

I don't care what you think of my credentials. I stand by what I write and I a trust the people on these boards to decide for themselves whether I have anything valuable to add. If you want to rationaly discuss the issues, fine. Offer counter arguments. If not, please put me on your ignore list and you won’t have read my “uninformed” ramblings again.

There’s a lot more to making WDW work than your personal preferences.

 

[dbm20th]

There are websites that spend all of their time devoted to crowd trends at WDW. The week before Christmas is not heavy. That's a fact. Axe grinding or not.

 

[EUROPACL]

That's during Christmas. Not the week before Christmas. The difference is ENORMOUS.

Got to ***************** and look at the crowd calendar for the week before Christmas. Don't take my word for it

Been there the week before as well not as busy but still packed to the gills. (at least the year we went)....then again I don't have any hard data like that "crowd calendar" ...you know the one that gets their data from...who ??? If it makes you feel any better I can whip something up real fast and post it on the web if you need me to.

 

[minnie61650]

The week before Christmas and the week between Christmas and New Year's has always been one of the heaviest periods at WDW. These have been the weeks most schools have traditional been out of session. The week before is usually busy with people taking a holiday trip before spending the holidays with family; the week after is usually busy with family groups coming together for a vacation together.

If you try to book a period on-line that's filled, the website will tell you (such as I tried for a stay over New Years - it suggested I pop for a suite). I was able to get a room at the Pop Century from 12/19 to 12/22 - all the way through to where it wanted my credit card number.

I don't care what you think of my credentials. I stand by what I write and I a trust the people on these boards to decide for themselves whether I have anything valuable to add. If you want to rationaly discuss the issues, fine. Offer counter arguments. If not, please put me on your ignore list and you won’t have read my “uninformed” ramblings again.

There’s a lot more to making WDW work than your personal preferences.

From this thread:

http://disboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=15834852

help! we are leaving this friday the 8th for a 2 night trip at AS Movies for DS's 1st bday! here is the situation: it was kind of a last minute trip and there was no onsite availability through disney when we booked. fortunately, our TA got us a room through some group block they had for the agency. my question is this (since she is currently away so i can't ask her...): i'm thinking about trying to upgrade to a different hotel (paying) once we arrive. now i know our TA had told us that we couldn't do this a few weeks ago without losing our one night deposit (since it was through the group block or something), but will it be possible once we get there to just pay the difference? i have called ASMovies a couple of times to out in some requests and they have basically refused to even make a note on the reservation since they are booked to capacity this weekend so I'm uneasy about what to expect for our stay there. i told them that i understand that it's only a request, but that i'd like to request an early check-in and a pack and play for my son. they refused to make a note on either and told me i would have to wait until i arrived. this is supposed to be a special weekend and my husband will have just worked all night long (8pm -8am) before we arrive so i'm trying to make everything as smooth as possible....

any advice on the best way to do this? note: i'm not looking for a free upgrade, i just want to pay the difference for a diffent hotel (moderate or deluxe). thanks!

At this late date I don't think you will be able to change it even if you were able to get in touch with the Travel Agent. Disney is sold out property wide and unless someone cancels there is not going to be anything to upgrade too.

I don't think since she booked this you will be able to change it without her assistance. Have you tried calling Central Reservations to see if anything is even available.

just called reservations and they only have a suite available at CSR for $590 per night. oh well. i'm just a little annoyed by the less than helpful CMs from ASMovies. I'm hoping it's not any indication of how the weekend will be...
I never knew they would refuse to even make a note of a request. It's not as if I were demanding anything and I was very polite. Am I the first person to ask for an early check-in and a pack and play? Just getting nervous.
Thank you for your feedback

I have read many posts like this over the last few weeks.

 

[dbm20th]

Been there the week before as well not as busy but still packed to the gills. (at least the year we went)....then again I don't have any hard data like that "crowd calendar" ...you know the one that gets their data from...who ???

The people who write the unofficial guide. Len Testa is one person who does not need to justify his credentials.

On a scale of 1-10, with Christmas day being a 10 Friday Dec 22 gets a 4. No day on the calendar gets lower than a 3 as far as I can tell.

 

[YoHo]

Been there the week before as well not as busy but still packed to the gills. (at least the year we went)....then again I don't have any hard data like that "crowd calendar" ...you know the one that gets their data from...who ??? If it makes you feel any better I can whip something up real fast and post it on the web if you need me to.

lol, maybe AV should post a website, then he can be just as accurate.

Traditionally, the Week before and the week of Christmas have always been some of the heaviest with Easter being possibly the worst.

The first two weeks of December are dead.
It's been that way forever.

 

[dbm20th]

I'm sorry but it won't let me link to UG's site. I'm sure you can find it, though. Crowd Calendar by Touring Plans