5th Grade Detention Opinions Wanted.

[luvsJack]

This is why you'll find that he won't use a locker when he get to middle and high school. The kids ruin their backs carrying all their books and notebooks and even their lunches all day, so that they can't 'forget' anything.

This is true and really a bit sad. I remember going to class carrying one book, one notebook and a pencil or pen, now they carry around a book bag or back pack that weighs as much or more than the ones the soldiers carry in boot camp!! Dd's bag right now is more than I could possibly carry around all day!

 

[mjkacmom]

I always hated those kind of detentions. I had a bunch of them they were shorter not an hour long but in 6th grade we had these dumb books we had to write all our homework in and have it signed by our parents each night. Now I understand some people lived the books to keep track of homework, some kept using something similar in HS. but I hated it. My homework never got written in half the time and I almost never remembered to have my mom sign it. Now my homework was done, most of the time in the class where it was assigned after I finished whatever other busy work the teacher gave me or I would work on it during the 5 min between classes until the end of the day and rarely had anything left by the time I had to go home. However if you didn't have it signed 3 days in a row you got detention.

I probably got detention at least once every 2 weeks that year because neither me or my mom would remember about the book, or mom would remember but I forgot the book at school that day (I didn't have any homework so why bring all my stuff home?)

I liked it much better when we got to older grades and it didn't matter how you remembered to do your homework all they cared about is if it got done.

I don't know what I would have done with that one, mostly because I hated the rule so much myself although yours is a bit different since he is forgetting stuff that he does have to turn in, not something that the school shouldn't be making him to anyway.

Our kids get agenda pads starting in the 3rd grade, and they have to be signed in 3rd grade. It really is a teaching tool, since this is the first year they are responsible for writing down their assignments. They don't have to be signed in 4th - 6th, and are eliminated in JH. It's a transition, and while you didn't need it as a reminder, other kids (like my ADHD kids) do need them. Unfortunately, rules can't be tailor-made for each child.

In the beginning of the year, dd9 would forget to write down homework, or have me sign it. Now, she's on top of it, after getting some sort of punishment for not doing what she was expected to do.

 

[luvmy3]

This is true and really a bit sad. I remember going to class carrying one book, one notebook and a pencil or pen, now they carry around a book bag or back pack that weighs as much or more than the ones the soldiers carry in boot camp!! Dd's bag right now is more than I could possibly carry around all day!

Our middle school kids aren't allowed to go to their locker in between classes and they aren't allowed to carry back-packs in the halls either. Some of those piles of books in their arms are bigger than they are

 

[luvsJack]

Our middle school kids aren't allowed to go to their locker in between classes and they aren't allowed to carry back-packs in the halls either. Some of those piles of books in their arms are bigger than they are

Oh my! Does the administration have any clue how hard it is to carry a pile of books like that? I know we have dumb rules like that in jr. high here and the kids get "written up" for any little thing, suddenly in high school its like "FREEDOM!" The teachers and the administration are much more laid back.

 

[joviroxx]

I cannot agree with the bolded statement. Some teachers simply will not discuss things like this with a student. Being told "because I said so" or "because that's the rule" isn't really allowing the kid to handle anything. I have seen many teachers that when a student questions a punishment or "write up" considers it talking back, when a parent poses the same question they will get a whole different response. There are many things that still need to be handled by the parent--which is kind of why the notes are sent home to be signed in the first place.

I would have him do the detention, because it may help him in the long run; but if I had a question about what is happening I wouldn't hesitate to ask. Being a part of your child's education doesn't just mean making sure they do their homework.

And no one should have to take any punishment just because "life isn't always fair".

I guess my kids have never had this kind of teacher. I agree parents need to get involved at times, but at this age, I get involved when and if I see my child cannot handle it or the teacher just isn't teaching them well. I let them go first and I only get involved when I see something isn't right.

He wasn't getting punished because "life isn't fair" he is getting punished because he didn't follow the rules. My reference to life isn't fair is in viewing how others may have "gotten away" with something or the rule wasn't consistently enforced. That happens every day, in all aspects of life. Your neighbor might not have been "caught" but it doesn't take away the fact that its still a rule.

If I thought the issue was very serious and felt that the teacher's rules were affecting the teaching environment, I might have a private talk with her about it but I still would tell my child that he needed to serve his detention.

 

[joviroxx]

Our middle school kids aren't allowed to go to their locker in between classes and they aren't allowed to carry back-packs in the halls either. Some of those piles of books in their arms are bigger than they are

What? Oh geesh! My kids are in private school and they have so many books that I bought an extra set of books so they wouldnt have to carry all the weight around to and from school!

 

[luvsJack]

I guess my kids have never had this kind of teacher. I agree parents need to get involved at times, but at this age, I get involved when and if I see my child cannot handle it or the teacher just isn't teaching them well. I let them go first and I only get involved when I see something isn't right.

He wasn't getting punished because "life isn't fair" he is getting punished because he didn't follow the rules. My reference to life isn't fair is in viewing how others may have "gotten away" with something or the rule wasn't consistently enforced. That happens every day, in all aspects of life. Your neighbor might not have been "caught" but it doesn't take away the fact that its still a rule.

If I thought the issue was very serious and felt that the teacher's rules were affecting the teaching environment, I might have a private talk with her about it but I still would tell my child that he needed to serve his detention.

Oh, I do agree wholeheartedly with the last part and I would do the same. And you are lucky that your kids haven't met any teachers like that. Let me say that MOST are not and will gladly listen to any of the students but we have had a few that if a kid just tries to explain why they did something they are accused of talking back--and that's where the parent will have to step in.

As for the other kids not getting in trouble about something, that really isn't something I would bring up to the teacher either. In that respect you are right, life isn't always fair, I guess I would have just worded it different to my kids (like "give it time, they will get in trouble about it too" or "well, he is not my problem, you are" )

 

[princessmom29]

I cannot agree with the bolded statement. Some teachers simply will not discuss things like this with a student. Being told "because I said so" or "because that's the rule" isn't really allowing the kid to handle anything. I have seen many teachers that when a student questions a punishment or "write up" considers it talking back, when a parent poses the same question they will get a whole different response. There are many things that still need to be handled by the parent--which is kind of why the notes are sent home to be signed in the first place.

I would have him do the detention, because it may help him in the long run; but if I had a question about what is happening I wouldn't hesitate to ask. Being a part of your child's education doesn't just mean making sure they do their homework.

And no one should have to take any punishment just because "life isn't always fair".

personally, I can say I have no problem discussing or explaining why a student is being punished, in fact I try to let every student know you did x, and the consequence is y just like I would for my own child. I don't hand out punishments when there is any question that the child committed the offense, I would rather err on the side of letting a guilty child pass, than punishing someone who didn't deserve it. If you get in trouble for something with me I am SURE you did it. I will not however argue the point with a student or a parent. I simply lay out what it was I SAW or HEARD the child do or say that was a rules violation and point them to the school policy in regards to that infraction. If something is reported to me by a student, I send it to the administration for a second adult opinion, unless the child in question admits to doing whatever it was. If a student or parent feels there is some kind of special circumstance that warrants an exception to the rule I am willing to listen, and I have been known to make exceptions, but most of the time parents and students who want to "discuss it" really want to convince me I didn't see or hear what I did.

I send notes home to the parent not because I want them to "handle it", but because I think they need to be as informed as possible about what is going on at school. They are my best ally in helping a struggling child or correcting a behavior problem if they are concerned and involved parents. I deal with the child at school, but I still want the parent to know what is going on. They may also have some insight into the root of the problem that I don't.

 

[luvmy3]

Oh my! Does the administration have any clue how hard it is to carry a pile of books like that? I know we have dumb rules like that in jr. high here and the kids get "written up" for any little thing, suddenly in high school its like "FREEDOM!" The teachers and the administration are much more laid back.

What? Oh geesh! My kids are in private school and they have so many books that I bought an extra set of books so they wouldnt have to carry all the weight around to and from school!

My dd's team has a locker but the other teams don't. I think alot of them leave their books in the desk so when you get to the class your stuff is already there, the problem of course is that those desks are shared so your stuff is being gone through by a bunch of other kids. I know a few kids who don't want to leave their stuff so they lug it around all day, its crazy.
When they get to the Jr. High they will all have lockers but have to carry all their books. I'm not sure why the don't allow them to carry backpacks, but maybe they let them carry totes? I guess thats one thing I should find out for next year.

 

[HeatherC]

OP here. I understand what everyone is saying. Want to re-iterate that he still will probably serve the detention as I stated before. All I did was tell the teacher that I told him to come home today until we talked more about it and I got the full story!!!! Tomorrow he will most likely be sitting in detention.

So to all of you who think I'm trying to get him off the hook, that is just not true. I have been saying all along that he needs to be held accountable. What I'm questioning is whether or not this is the best way to hold him accountable.

But I have to tell you after reading all the posts I get kind of frustrated because the tone is more....let the school handle it and stay out of it. Well guess what....it's my kid and I'm not staying out of it. I was very upfront and stated that he needed to be held accountable. But following a rule that does not teach a kid anything is in my mind ridiculous. Like I said....have him write an essay and learn something from it. Sitting their twiddling his thumbs for an hour teaches nothing!

I think more parents need to get involved with the stuff that goes on in the schools and what is going on with their kids. To hear people say...stay out of it really concerns me. Too many people put their kids on the bus in the morning and has no idea of what the heck is happening with them the rest of the day.

Yeah...life ain't fair. But I'm certainly not raising my kid to follow rules just for the sake of following them. A rule should be fair and consistent. And if it isn't, maybe more people should think about it and question it as well. Maybe there is a better way of handling mistakes like this. But if no one questions things, it remains status quo.

It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

 

[joviroxx]

p to the teacher either. In that respect you are right, life isn't always fair, I guess I would have just worded it different to my kids (like "give it time, they will get in trouble about it too" or "well, he is not my problem, you are" )

I'm one of 6 kids, the "Its not fair" was heard constantly at home so I had the "Life isn't fair" mantra drilled in my brain LOL! Don't know how my parents handled it !

 

[mjkacmom]

OP here. I understand what everyone is saying. Want to re-iterate that he still will probably serve the detention as I stated before. All I did was tell the teacher that I told him to come home today until we talked more about it and I got the full story!!!! Tomorrow he will most likely be sitting in detention.

So to all of you who think I'm trying to get him off the hook, that is just not true. I have been saying all along that he needs to be held accountable. What I'm questioning is whether or not this is the best way to hold him accountable.

But I have to tell you after reading all the posts I get kind of frustrated because the tone is more....let the school handle it and stay out of it. Well guess what....it's my kid and I'm not staying out of it. I was very upfront and stated that he needed to be held accountable. But following a rule that does not teach a kid anything is in my mind ridiculous. Like I said....have him write an essay and learn something from it. Sitting their twiddling his thumbs for an hour teaches nothing!

I think more parents need to get involved with the stuff that goes on in the schools and what is going on with their kids. To hear people say...stay out of it really concerns me. Too many people put their kids on the bus in the morning and has no idea of what the heck is happening with them the rest of the day.

Yeah...life ain't fair. But I'm certainly not raising my kid to follow rules just for the sake of following them. A rule should be fair and consistent. And if it isn't, maybe more people should think about it and question it as well. Maybe there is a better way of handling mistakes like this. But if no one questions things, it remains status quo.

It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

I think you are defensive because no one agrees with you. If I posted something that NO ONE agreed with, I might question if I did the right thing. Teachers have rules in the classroom, and it looks like this one is clear-cut. I've come across many different rules in many different classrooms. Some I thought were better than others, but I'm not going to question the teacher if my child is not harmed by them.

Since the teacher implements them every year, I assume he or she knows if they work or not. I'm guessing that if they are not effective, they will change them up. I happen to think that having to sit in a boring classroom for an hour after school might be incentive enough to remember to bring what is needed to class. Why should the teacher have the extra work of reading your child's essay? Should teachers have multiples of punishments for all sorts of different offenses? Push a child - write the multiplication tables. Chew gum - stand in the corner. Run in the halls - wash the blackboards.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

OP here. I understand what everyone is saying. Want to re-iterate that he still will probably serve the detention as I stated before. All I did was tell the teacher that I told him to come home today until we talked more about it and I got the full story!!!! Tomorrow he will most likely be sitting in detention.

So to all of you who think I'm trying to get him off the hook, that is just not true. I have been saying all along that he needs to be held accountable. What I'm questioning is whether or not this is the best way to hold him accountable.

But I have to tell you after reading all the posts I get kind of frustrated because the tone is more....let the school handle it and stay out of it. Well guess what....it's my kid and I'm not staying out of it. I was very upfront and stated that he needed to be held accountable. But following a rule that does not teach a kid anything is in my mind ridiculous. Like I said....have him write an essay and learn something from it. Sitting their twiddling his thumbs for an hour teaches nothing!

I think more parents need to get involved with the stuff that goes on in the schools and what is going on with their kids. To hear people say...stay out of it really concerns me. Too many people put their kids on the bus in the morning and has no idea of what the heck is happening with them the rest of the day.

Yeah...life ain't fair. But I'm certainly not raising my kid to follow rules just for the sake of following them. A rule should be fair and consistent. And if it isn't, maybe more people should think about it and question it as well. Maybe there is a better way of handling mistakes like this. But if no one questions things, it remains status quo.

It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

Wow. I truly think this is a ridiculous post. Your child broke the classroom rules by coming unprepared for class SEVERAL times in ONE WEEK. It's not like he doesn't know he needs a pencil/notebook for class!!! The consequence for breaking this rule is clearly set out. Although you say you are not undermining the teacher's authority, that is EXACTLY what you are doing by refusing to accept the consequence that she has assigned for that misbehaviour.

If a child forgets materials for class, then the start of the class is delayed until everyone is prepared. It is very disruptive having students coming and going from class. Therefore, being made to sit and 'wait' at the end of the day for detention to end is somewhat fitting.

I don't expect teachers to be able to tell me how to discipline my children at home. Likewise, I don't expect to be able to tell my kids' teachers how to discipline them in school (assuming that the consequences for misbehaviour are reasonable, of course). If my child came to me complaining that they were being punished for something they didn't do, or that the punishments were very excessive, of course I'd go to bat for them.

 

[HeatherC]

MJKACMOM: I truly trying not to get defensive.
And I'm not trying to undermine the teacher. I actually told him that I would talk to the teachers first but that he did break the rules and as a result would probably have to do it...but I wanted to clarify things with them first and get the full story.

All I'm doing is asking for further clarification before he does it. I guess I just don't see what's wrong with that?

On another note...it was nice to finally start a thread that got so many responses!!!

Happy thoughts to all!!

 

[princessmom29]

OP here. I understand what everyone is saying. Want to re-iterate that he still will probably serve the detention as I stated before. All I did was tell the teacher that I told him to come home today until we talked more about it and I got the full story!!!! Tomorrow he will most likely be sitting in detention.

So to all of you who think I'm trying to get him off the hook, that is just not true. I have been saying all along that he needs to be held accountable. What I'm questioning is whether or not this is the best way to hold him accountable.
But I have to tell you after reading all the posts I get kind of frustrated because the tone is more....let the school handle it and stay out of it. Well guess what....it's my kid and I'm not staying out of it. I was very upfront and stated that he needed to be held accountable. But following a rule that does not teach a kid anything is in my mind ridiculous. Like I said....have him write an essay and learn something from it. Sitting their twiddling his thumbs for an hour teaches nothing!

I think more parents need to get involved with the stuff that goes on in the schools and what is going on with their kids. To hear people say...stay out of it really concerns me. Too many people put their kids on the bus in the morning and has no idea of what the heck is happening with them the rest of the day.
Yeah...life ain't fair. But I'm certainly not raising my kid to follow rules just for the sake of following them. A rule should be fair and consistent. And if it isn't, maybe more people should think about it and question it as well. Maybe there is a better way of handling mistakes like this. But if no one questions things, it remains status quo.
It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

parts in red are what I am responding to.
1. that is gonig to come across as calling the teacher a liar. It tels the teacher that you are nto willing to believe her side. What your cghild says happened is all that matters.

2. If you are questioning the policy then do so AFTER the child has served the punishment, not before. Your child has violated the policy as it currently stands. He is not going to be permenantly damaged by detention, and the teacher will likely be much more receptive to your comments when it doesn't seem like they are being used to get your son out of trouble.

3. the "it's my kids" argument really gets old fast, and i speak from experience. Just becuase they are your children doesn't mean the teacher has no authority over them in the classrom, wether you meant it or not, that is what you are implying with this argument.

4. I don't think that is the case here. I think people are saying Don't get involved meaning stay informed, but let the child try to work it out on his own first, then if there is not a suitable resolution get involved. There is a fine line between staying informed and involved and fighting a child's battles for them.

5. You are absolutely correct, but again, the time to address this is AFTER the punishment has been served, or before your child gets in trouble. Otherwise it comes off as trying to get your child out of trouble and not a vaild challenge to a bad policy.

 

[MushyMushy]

Tell him to just suck it up buttercup and do it. By the time you drag this out, it could have been done and forgotten by now!

Middle school sucks. Kids have a lot on their minds (hormones ) and they're constantly forgetting homework, pencils, notebooks, etc. There needs to be consequences. Schools don't have a whole lot of options at their disposal for punishment, so detention it is. BTW, writing as punishment? Horrible, horrible idea. I would *never* give writing as punishment.

If you're worried about the best way to hold him accountable, follow it up with punishment at home. I'm sure you can be much more creative in ways of doing that.

 

[princessmom29]

Tell him to just suck it up buttercup and do it. By the time you drag this out, it could have been done and forgotten by now!

Middle school sucks. Kids have a lot on their minds (hormones ) and they're constantly forgetting homework, pencils, notebooks, etc. There needs to be consequences. Schools don't have a whole lot of options at their disposal for punishment, so detention it is. BTW, writing as punishment? Horrible, horrible idea. I would *never* give writing as punishment. If you're worried about the best way to hold him accountable, follow it up with punishment at home. I'm sure you can be much more creative in ways of doing that.

Me either. It totally undermines the effort to get kids to turn out quality, well thought out written expression. It makes writing punitive and not something the want to do.

 

[luvmy3]

OP here. I understand what everyone is saying. Want to re-iterate that he still will probably serve the detention as I stated before. All I did was tell the teacher that I told him to come home today until we talked more about it and I got the full story!!!! Tomorrow he will most likely be sitting in detention.

So to all of you who think I'm trying to get him off the hook, that is just not true. I have been saying all along that he needs to be held accountable. What I'm questioning is whether or not this is the best way to hold him accountable.

But I have to tell you after reading all the posts I get kind of frustrated because the tone is more....let the school handle it and stay out of it. Well guess what....it's my kid and I'm not staying out of it. I was very upfront and stated that he needed to be held accountable. But following a rule that does not teach a kid anything is in my mind ridiculous. [B]Like I said....have him write an essay and learn something from it.[/B] Sitting their twiddling his thumbs for an hour teaches nothing!

I think more parents need to get involved with the stuff that goes on in the schools and what is going on with their kids. To hear people say...stay out of it really concerns me. Too many people put their kids on the bus in the morning and has no idea of what the heck is happening with them the rest of the day.

Yeah...life ain't fair. But I'm certainly not raising my kid to follow rules just for the sake of following them. A rule should be fair and consistent. And if it isn't, maybe more people should think about it and question it as well. Maybe there is a better way of handling mistakes like this. But if no one questions things, it remains status quo.

It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

OP, a 5th grader should already know why its important to come prepared for class, especially one in which you say you and the teachers have been working on their organization all year. Its the end of the school year, do you really think that writing that essay or sitting in detention is going to make him think about making sure he's prepared?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay, a more serious side to this post...

It is the end of the year... I would let it go... Maybe this teacher is a bit out of line and demanding and inconsistant, but it wouldn't really kill your son to go ahead and serve detention and maybe try to be better at remembering things.

Now, on the more serious side.
Having a son with some moderate neurological learning-disabilty, and having a learned a LOT about these kinds of things.

I think it is entirely inappropriate, in general, for schools and teachers to expect 11 year old boys to have the organizational skills and Executive Function skills that some schools and teachers expect them to have. (these are skills that are often deficits with my sons disability)

I just don't find this realistic.
(But, hey the 'experts' in our educational system don't seem to recognise this )

This is one problem that I see with the common practice of moving kids who are just now turning 11 to 'middle school'.

I know that many 12-13-14 year olds (especially boys, it seems) can have troubles with this.
They can walk into class with a completed assignment, and just 'forget' to turn it in.

So, while I would advise you to just let-it-go at this point, at the end of the year. KNOW THAT I AM COMPLETELY WITH YOU IN YOUR FRUSTRATION ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING!!!!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

MJKACMOM: I truly trying not to get defensive.
And I'm not trying to undermine the teacher. I actually told him that I would talk to the teachers first but that he did break the rules and as a result would probably have to do it...but I wanted to clarify things with them first and get the full story.

All I'm doing is asking for further clarification before he does it. I guess I just don't see what's wrong with that?

On another note...it was nice to finally start a thread that got so many responses!!!

Happy thoughts to all!!

Because now you put the teacher in a defensive position and it is undermining. Kids take a cue from you that there is a possibility mom is going to go to bat for me, even though I broke the rules.

When you kid is unprepared you support the decision of the teacher, esp. in middle school. You are setting yourself up in a bad way.

Heck, I keep telling my 7th grader she deserves a detention for how late she goes to class. I am an "on time person" and she rushes into the school last second. It bugs me.