5th Grade Detention Opinions Wanted.

[FayeW]

Wow. I truly think this is a ridiculous post. Your child broke the classroom rules by coming unprepared for class SEVERAL times in ONE WEEK. It's not like he doesn't know he needs a pencil/notebook for class!!! The consequence for breaking this rule is clearly set out. Although you say you are not undermining the teacher's authority, that is EXACTLY what you are doing by refusing to accept the consequence that she has assigned for that misbehaviour.
.

I disagree with this, for a couple of reasons.

1) Forgetting his notebook/pencil should have been ONE infraction. Especially since the teacher has been inconsistent in enforcing infractions all year. Little Billy forgot his book last week...no infraction. Joey forgets his notebook and pencil on the same day...two infractions???

2)There should not have been any infraction for leaving the book in the locker since the teacher had told them they would be working on something else for that class, and then changed her mind.

You say the "consequence for breaking this rule is clearly set out" however, it is not being consistently followed by the teacher. She can't expect parents to back her up when she is inconsistent and wishy washy with the punishments.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, a 5th grader should already know why its important to come prepared for class,

I just noticed that the above came in as I was typing my post....

I could not disagree more.

 

[crashbb]

MJKACMOM: I truly trying not to get defensive.
And I'm not trying to undermine the teacher. I actually told him that I would talk to the teachers first but that he did break the rules and as a result would probably have to do it...but I wanted to clarify things with them first and get the full story.

All I'm doing is asking for further clarification before he does it. I guess I just don't see what's wrong with that?

On another note...it was nice to finally start a thread that got so many responses!!!

Happy thoughts to all!!

Is HE confused about what he did? Your OP didn't sound like he either (A) didn't know about the rule or (B) felt that he hadn't broken the rule. What is their to clarify?

Clearly he know about the rule. If he had an issue with it, he should have raised it - either with you or the teacher. Especially when he was up to three signatures in his book.

You are undermining the teacher. You are saying - Yup it is a rule and you broke. And yes, you know about the rule and its consequences before you broke it. Yup, you had plenty of time to discuss the rule and its consequences earlier. But, now that it might actually cause you problems, let us see if mommy can get you out of it. You said yourself - he broke the rule. But he'll only "probably" have to deal with the consequence of doing so.

 

[jrmasm]

I think it is entirely inappropriate, in general, for schools and teachers to expect 11 year old boys to have the organizational skills and Executive Function skills that some schools and teachers expect them to have. (these are skills that are often deficits with my sons disability)

What? It's too hard for them to remember to bring a pencil, paper and book to class? To classs? Where you do school work?

That's ridiculous.

 

[jrmasm]

It should certainly also be ok for a parent to consult with a teacher and ask questions.

Yes it should. But I don't think there should be any questions about this issue. He forgot stuff he needed to bring to class so he got punished. That's not that confusing.

What are you going ask anyway?

 

[Wishing on a star]

parts in red are what I am responding to.
1. that is gonig to come across as calling the teacher a liar. It tels the teacher that you are nto willing to believe her side. What your cghild says happened is all that matters.

2. If you are questioning the policy then do so AFTER the child has served the punishment, not before. Your child has violated the policy as it currently stands. He is not going to be permenantly damaged by detention, and the teacher will likely be much more receptive to your comments when it doesn't seem like they are being used to get your son out of trouble.

3. the "it's my kids" argument really gets old fast, and i speak from experience. Just becuase they are your children doesn't mean the teacher has no authority over them in the classrom, wether you meant it or not, that is what you are implying with this argument.

4. I don't think that is the case here. I think people are saying Don't get involved meaning stay informed, but let the child try to work it out on his own first, then if there is not a suitable resolution get involved. There is a fine line between staying informed and involved and fighting a child's battles for them.

5. You are absolutely correct, but again, the time to address this is AFTER the punishment has been served, or before your child gets in trouble. Otherwise it comes off as trying to get your child out of trouble and not a vaild challenge to a bad policy.

I agree with this post.

While I totally and completely agree with the OP in her feellings....

I do think it would be best to have let it go, and then, AFTER, address any valid issues (as I mentioned in my earlier post).

I would let my son do the time (no big deal, really)....
And then, raise my carefully thought out concerns with this teacher.
And let her know that I hoped that this situation would not repeat itself during the next few weeks remaining in the year.

Man, it sucks to not be able to proactively address issues without being labelled as one of 'those parents'.... But, such is life.

 

[crashbb]

Man, it sucks to not be able to proactively address issues without being labelled as one of 'those parents'.... But, such is life.

She could have address it proactively by discussing it with the teacher before her son get detention. Her son clearly knew the rules, if she wanted to be proactive she should have discussed the class/school rules with him at the beginning of the year (or whenever they were announced) and discussed their appropriateness (or lack thereof) at the time. Then she would have been clear on what, exactly, the rules were and would have been able to voice her opinion on the consequences, in a way that would not appear to be helping her son avoid the consequences or calling the teacher a liar.

 

[Wishing on a star]

So I grilled him on what happened and he said that one day he forgot his pencil and book in his locker (made him sign twice) and another day he left his homework in his locker and had to go get it. The last time he left a book in his locker for reading that he didn't think they were using that day. (A bunch of kids had the same thing happen to them that day since the teacher told them they would be working on something else originally.

Nope, not ridiculous....
First, this is a lot more than forgetting his pencil and book (which he did forget one time, and should have been ONE infraction....)

It is all the rest of this, in bold above, along with the fact that the teacher may not have been consistant with how she is handling these issues with the infraction log.

I stand by what I posted...
Especially with an 11 year old.

 

[luvmy3]

I just noticed that the above came in as I was typing my post....

I could not disagree more.

Thats fine but I know I certainly expect my 4th and my 6th grader to know why its important to be prepared for class. I don't understand the mentality of "we can't expect this from our little children" My opinion is a child will only do whats expected of them so if we don't expect much from them, then we won't be getting much from them in return. Thats not really something I see as beneficial for my children, YMMV.

The OP said they have been working on his organization ALL YEAR, so unless her child has a disability that prevents him from being capable of being organized the there is absolutley no reason he shouldn't be expexcted to know why its important. He is in 5th grade, not in pre-K.


ETA- 6th grade id middle school here, then they go onto Jr, High. At what point do you think we can expect our kids to be organized?

 

[princessmom29]

I just noticed that the above came in as I was typing my post....

I could not disagree more.

I personally think you are wrong here as well. Kids perform only to the level they are expected to. I think it is totally reasonable to expect any "typical" 11 year old, boy or girl to understand that they need to bring their materials to class, turn in their assignments on time, and keep up with their own schoolwork. I ask it of my 5 year old in K, and she does just fine. She is responsible for getting her homework out of her bag when we get home, sitting down to do it, asking questions when she needs to, and putting it back when she is done. All I have to do is tell her it is homework time. She is also responsible for clearing her bag when she gets to school and handing in assignments. From what I understand talking to other parents this is the way they do it as well. I just don't get how being responsible for schoolwork is such a hard thing to do or an unreasonable expectation of an 11 year old. I certianly expect my highschoolers to be able to take care of their own stuff. I take up classwork once a week to grade it. They are responsible for keeping it all together and turning it in. Thati s not my job or Mommy's at that point.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

I disagree with this, for a couple of reasons.

1) Forgetting his notebook/pencil should have been ONE infraction. Especially since the teacher has been inconsistent in enforcing infractions all year. Little Billy forgot his book last week...no infraction. Joey forgets his notebook and pencil on the same day...two infractions???

2)There should not have been any infraction for leaving the book in the locker since the teacher had told them they would be working on something else for that class, and then changed her mind.

You say the "consequence for breaking this rule is clearly set out" however, it is not being consistently followed by the teacher. She can't expect parents to back her up when she is inconsistent and wishy washy with the punishments.

The only thing is...we are all working with the information provided by an 10/11 year old boy who has come home with a detention slip - not exactly an unbiased observer of the teacher's consistency .

I think forgetting to bring not only your workbook but also pencil is a more serious infraction than just forgetting one or the other...and yet, he still had several more chances that week to avoid a detention!

Are we sure that the teacher hadn't told them to bring the book, even though they'd planned to do other work?

The boy did admit to leaving required material in his locker at least three times. The consequence isn't outrageous or harmful to the child's well-being. This is just not something I would go to bat over.

 

[curious3069]

Not a hill I would die on either. It is a fantastic teaching tool about being responsible and the consequences of not being prepared. There is no fair here, your son wasn't prepared all week and now has a detention. Doesn't even matter what happened to other kids. In fact, I'm not sure why you aren't more concerned over the fact that he's forgetting pencils rather than the fact that he's being punished. Now that would be a good subject to discuss with his teacher, not how she is disciplining the rest of the class.

 

[jrmasm]

Nope, not ridiculous....
First, this is a lot more than forgetting his pencil and book (which he did forget one time, and should have been ONE infraction....)

It is all the rest of this, in bold above, along with the fact that the teacher may not have been consistant with how she is handling these issues with the infraction log.

I stand by what I posted...
Especially with an 11 year old.

Ridiculous. These kids are going to class not packing for a month long European cruise.

Pencil, book, notebook, homework. That is not too difficult.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I agree with the majority here that you should have had your son serve the detention. He has repeatedly not been ready for class--and he knew the rules and knew those signatures in the infraction log were adding up. Based solely on the 11 year old's version of events I feel the detention was justified.

For the poster who thinks this is too much for an 11 year old, my DS is a highly unorganized 11 year old. We have had to work at helping him organize--and that includes holding him responsible when he screws up as this is one of the BEST ways to learn to be more responsible (his school does not have detention but he has gotten a zero when he did not have the book he needed to do in class work and been required to pay his teacher 50 cents the next day for the pencil he "bought" from her when he forgot his own). 11 year olds CAN stay organized (mine has a different schedule every day involving five different classrooms plus the gym and pool and 13 different teachers--totally normal for 5th graders at his huge school of 1200 kids). But if mommy always bails them out when they are not (or teachers do by not holding them accountable in the first place) then they probably will not learn.
I also agree with some others that kids constantly getting up to go to lockers IS disruptive.

OP--I think your kid is a good kid who made some minor mistakes and was given a minor punishment because of them. All totally appropriate in my book.

 

[Becky2005]

Am I crazy or shouldn't this be consistent throughout the school before they punish a kid with a detention? I always thought detention was for bad behavior...but maybe I'm wrong.

Unfortunately you are wrong. Detention is for anything they want it to be for. Not just bad behavior. I know our school policy basically has it for if you are tardy too much or miss too much school or don't turn in your homework.

My 13 year old got a detention in 5th grade for not turning in his homework. Now, he is unorganized and he has an IEP for it due to some other issues, etc... but basically they gave him a detention so he would try to be better at it I guess. I don't know, I was the bad mom and blew it off because as you, I always felt detention should be for bad behavior not just forgetfulness. He did serve it, I just didn't think it was that big of a deal so didn't do anything about it other than pick him up, sign the form and go home afterwards. In my case, I figure the punishment should be a lower grade if you forget homework but since they don't give grades out in our elementary school, then I guess detention it was.

 

[lillygator]

what further clarification do you need? He forgot his supplies on several occasions....got marks for them, enough to earn a detention. I don't see what you need to clarify.

 

[princessmom29]

Unfortunately you are wrong. Detention is for anything they want it to be for. Not just bad behavior. I know our school policy basically has it for if you are tardy too much or miss too much school or don't turn in your homework.

My 13 year old got a detention in 5th grade for not turning in his homework. Now, he is unorganized and he has an IEP for it due to some other issues, etc... but basically they gave him a detention so he would try to be better at it I guess. I don't know, I was the bad mom and blew it off because as you, I always felt detention should be for bad behavior not just forgetfulness. In my case, I figure the punishment should be a lower grade if you forget homework but since they don't give grades out in our elementary school, then I guess detention it was.

Being late or not having material are both behavior issues. it is disruptive to the rest of the class. Detention may not be the answer, both fall under the heading of behavior in my book. The child's actions have caused a disruption.

 

[joviroxx]

Unfortunately you are wrong. Detention is for anything they want it to be for. Not just bad behavior. I know our school policy basically has it for if you are tardy too much or miss too much school or don't turn in your homework.

.

My kids school is 3 demerits = detention. When it comes to homework or assignments, 3 missed homeworks =1 demerit. Some actions are demerits, some detention. Its not just about bad behavior.

 

[MushyMushy]

I think kids with an LD or BD are a whole different story here. This type of organizational difficulty should be covered in an IEP. BUT, even with these kids, there should be a level of expectation they should meet in regards to having basic supplies on them at all times (pencil, notebook, agenda, etc).

 

[HeatherC]

You'll all be happy to know that I just emailed his teachers and apologized for questioning the detention. I told them that he would be doing the detention tomorrow and that I understand why the rule is there and that I respect their rules and so should he!

I also told them that my intent was not to undermine their authority, but rather that I'm just a mom trying....and I happened to make a mistake today. I also told them I make them all the time!

I guess I have this thing in my head that a detention was something that you got when you did something really bad that was done with a malicious intent.

I actually went to a catholic school from K-8 and believe it or not, we never had detentions. I think because we were too afraid of the nuns to do anything wrong. So somewhere along the way I've thought .....if you get detention is must be really bad. How ridiculous is that?

Did you ever have one of those weeks where you question each decision you make? Well I'm having one.

Thanks again to all for your input and helping me see the error of my ways!!!