5 in a 1-B/R: A poll, NOT a debate

[DeeP]

BTW, does anyone have picture of the "studio plus" at BWV? I'd like to see the size of the existing day bed.

I don't have a picture of the BWV daybeds but I can tell you from staying in a BWV studio plus that the daybeds(they are not really daybeds, more like a small loveseat) are very small. They will only fit a small child (under 6-7).
We are a family of 3 (we are always under the DVC limit no matter what size unit we stay in) but my children are a boy and a girl who are teenagers, so I would love to see a nice sized daybed like they have at the Poly & Contemporary in a 1 BR DVC villa. This could possibly happen in a 1 BR at OKW due to the size, but where in the world would you fit a daybed or even a rollaway bed in a 1 BR at BWV, WLV or BCV???

 

[ReneeQ]

I posted yesterday that I have a picture of the BWV daybed in the studio plus. We were there 1/25 - 1/30/02. My goddaughter is laying on the bed. She is 6 years old, 42 inches tall and weighs 41 pounds, so it gives you a good idea of the size of the bed. But I can't figure out how to post it. I have scanned the picture, but don't know how to attach it. If anyone is interested, please post instructions. Thanks!

 

[Patpat15]

just don't want to feel like a criminal for sqeezing that last child into an obviously large enough space

 

[Chuck S]

Capt Midnight, I think the "poll" is a little misleading...the majority are voting for 5 with an extra charge of $3 to $5....that isn't nearly enough, most hotels charge about 15% for an extra person.

If I could "legally" get 5 into a one bedroom for only $3, I'd vote for it, too.

 

[brittsmum1998]

Very well said Capt Midnight!!

 

[John.Disney]

<i>Let's just let the poll take its course and see where it ends up.

Otherwise, strong opinions can be posted under this topic on the debate board.

</i>


Good idea, here are the links...

I thought the matter was settled on the following thread. I have linked to where I believe the debate begins to settle with some good posts by 'fklhou'...

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140007&perpage=15&pagenumber=17

The thread died off as one side of the debate simply stopped responding, hence my mistaken assumption that things were settled. However, one of the same persons that stopped responding started up all over again on a different thread (linked from here)...

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53589&perpage=15&pagenumber=7

I hope some people at least go over and <i>read</i> fklhou's posts (and all the others for that matter) as I believe from a multitude of posts on both sides of the debate that many (if not most) people are not very clear on exactly what they are legally entitled to and limited to by their contracts, and what Disney in particular is <i>not</i> limited to.

If you <i>are</i> clear and fklhou and myself are wrong, please come over and explain how/why. You can even call me names and I promise not to respond with anything worse that dry sarcasm, thanks!

John

 

[prplcrzy]

I voted for the keep the limit option, although I would be for allowing people to add a person if they paid $20-$25 per night extra, and the extra money went directly into the dues pool to cover extra wear and tear that others are concerned about. This seems fair because it would create more wear and tear, use amenities and towels, etc.

 

[Caskbill]

Thanks CaptainMidnight and JohnDisney for reminding everyone to be careful not to get into debate mode.

Remember that when you start to offer counter-arguments to someone's post, then you're starting to get into debates.

Let's keep it to continue to be posts and explanations about your vote. If you feel the urge to argue the pros or cons of someone's remarks, follow JohnDisney's links over to the debate board and get into the action there.

So far I think this thread is staying within the 'special' rules that the DIS had to set on this sensitive topic. We haven't heard from Doc yet, so I believe that means no news is good news and that we're OK.

If you haven't voted yet, do so. For my part, when it seems everyone has pretty much voted, I will try to put together one of my statistical type analyses. I'll try to create a report using some type of matrix showing all the variations taking place within the voting. It might be enlightening, or it might not show anything. In any case it should prove interesting. As usual I will keep it as unbiased as possible.

<b>Also, a reminder of the poll guidelines:

1. We are considering 1-B/R units only, NOT studios. Studios would continue to be limited to 4 occupants in all cases.

2. We are not considering eventually going to 6 (or more) in a 1-B/R. Six or more will still require a 2-B/R, or GV.

3. We are considering ONLY the special case of 5 persons and what might or might not be members' preferences for this situation.</b>

<i>Raising questions such as costs; or does that mean allowing 9 in a 2-B/R; and statements such as age limits, etc, are all good points and I will try to summarize all this in the final report. Meanwhile if you want to argue or counter-argue any of these issues, hop over to the debate board and have fun.</i>

So far so good: 185 votes, 46 replies, and 1354 views, after only 36 hours.

 

[rbuzzotta]

WOW!!! I just read some of the posts on the debate board!!! I'm staying clear of that one!!

As a family of 5 with 3 DD's 10 and under, I will have my first 2 BR stay this summer and I am looking forward to it!!

 

[fklhou]

As John Disney has mentioned, this topic has been debated heavily on the debate board with John Disney making some excellant points on that debate. See http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53589&perpage=15&pagenumber=8

I like some flexibilty as to the number in a unit. We purchase the number of points that we have intending to use a two bed room for our family of five. However, I understand that not everyone can afford that many points and some accomadations should be made.

When we signed our DVC documents, we gave Disney a tremedous amount of discretion in how Disney runs the the DVC. I for one have been happy with the way Disney have utilitzed this discretioni.

 

[Caskbill]

Bump

Just bumping to pg 1 for awhile in case anyone else wants to vote yet.

 

[AZKathy]

I would vote for the additional person even if the price was raised from the quoted $3.00-$5.00 in the pole (number four) to even $20.00 night. Heck, I am paying $25.00 night at HRH for a roll away this summer!!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

.... but I think I'd want to know that at least one of the 5 is a child.

BUT, if people are already "sneaking" an extra person into the room and not paying anything extra,do we really think they are going to suddenly become honest and volunteer to pay extra ?!?!?

 

[KNWVIKING]

... and would like to comment but I'm not trying to debate the 4 or 5 to a 1 br issue.

People have mentioned all the "extra" wear and tear this 5th person will cause & the dues could go up. Wellll... when a 2 br that sleeps 8 is used for only 5,should we expect our dues to drop because of underuse due to 3 less people ? I imagine that most of the times rooms are not used at max capacity. DVC is getting a bargain.

If all the 2 br are booked then groups of 5 will need either two studios or a 1 br & studio. Seems like that will eat up the availible studios- my personal room of choice. Maybe DW and I can't get a studio because a triplet convention is in town

 

[dbkelly]

I voted for #4. I understand why people who do not have a family of 5 would vote for #1, but it would be nice if people would be considerate of everyones needs since we are one community. Therefore, I think the idea of setting an age limit on the 5th person and having the family of five pick up the costs for a roll-away is a great compromise! I also don't like the idea of 2 adults and 3 teenagers staying in a one bedroom, because the suites are just not big enough. But, the suites are plenty big for 2 adults and 3 young children.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Roll-aways don't make sense at OKW because the complex is huge and there are no elevators (except in three buildings). Getting the rollaways from a central storage facility (which, presumably, would first need to be built) into the OKW 1BR condos would be a major effort.

At the "hotel-like" DVC resorts (BWV, VWL, BCL), they would still need to build storage facilities for roll-away beds. And the squeezing a roll-away bed into the relatively small living rooms at those resorts would be a real challenge. With the fold-out sofa open, those living rooms don't have much free space. (This is not a criticism of the layout of the living rooms, but just a comment that they weren't designed with roll-aways in mind.)

Each resort would need to stock enough roll-aways to handle the maximum demand period for roll-aways -- and would need enough storage space to hold most of those roll-aways when demand is lowest.

Who is going to pay to build the storage facilities and the stock them full of roll-away beds?

I appreciate the spirit of this poll and discussion, but roll-aways aren't the easy answer that they might appear to be on the surface.

 

[PamOKW]

Heck, I am paying $25.00 night at HRH for a roll away this summer!!!!

That's why I think $3-$5 is an unreasonable amount to expect to pay. The costs must be closer to $20+ since that's what most hotels charge for an additional person.

 

[DVCDAVE]

Where is RICHYAMS when you need him !!!! Frankly, I am 100% against 5 in a studio under any circumstances PERIOD. I have deep concerns over fire issues and liability to the the DVC resort (ie: our DVC insurance&dues). This issue has been talked to death on these boards, frankly if you have a family of 5, buy more points and get a 2 BR unit, or bank or borrow points. It isn't our fault you decided to have a family of 5, so the burden is on you to raise and take care of YOUR family, not ours. If you can't afford to buy more points to enjoy your WDW vacation, then may I suggest a shorter one in a larger unit, just think of the money you'll save on food and park tickets !!!! I don't understand why people think that just because they have a large family, OR over invite guests, they feel they can ignore the rules and do whatever they want to accomondate themselves, with no regard to the rules. They were asked to READ the rules, and agree to them prior to purcase, so what gives ? Frankly, I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone agonizing over this issue, I find it redundant to no end. If money is the issue, it should have been thought of long before having the third child, or inviting the next guest, OR maybe think of buying a pup tent as there are plenty of camp sites waiting for you at Fort Wilderness for a fraction of a DVC night's stay.

I don't understand peoples infactuation with this topic,....does anyone on the resteraunt anddinning board post threads and polls about splitting a hot dog with two or more ???? Whats the deal ? a rule is a rule, cough up more money for points to get correct accomodations for your families' size or don't come.....period .

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by PamOKW
That's why I think $3-$5 is an unreasonable amount to expect to pay. The costs must be closer to $20+ since that's what most hotels charge for an additional person.

Comparing what a hotel charges with what a timeshare resort charges is not valid.

A hotel bases its prices on a hotel business model. We've gotten free roll-aways from full-service Marriott hotels and Courtyard by Marriott hotels. In that case, the business model says that by providing free roll-aways for children, the hotel can sell rooms to familes on weekends -- rooms that would otherwise sit empty.

Other hotels view roll-aways as revenue sources, allowing them to extract extra charges from guests, based not on actual cost, but on what the market will pay (which may be more or less than the actual costs incurred by the hotel).

My guess is that if DVC were to provide rollaways based on the actual cost of delivery to the condo, setup, removal from the condo, storage, as well as ammortization of the storage facility, the cost (and thus the price to the guest) would be fairly high -- especially at OKW where the labor of at least two people would be required for each delivery and removal.

I just don't think the DVC resorts at WDW lend themselves to roll-aways.

 

[PamOKW]

Werner, I realize that we can't compare to a hotel but I don't have any basis on what the purchase, storage, replacement, etc. costs would be. It just seems that $5 doesn't buy much these days. I also agree it's impractical to expect rollaways on the upper floors at OKW. I still remember the housekeeper who once carried a new mattress for the sofa bed up the stair on her head, took my old one and carried it down! That was service!

DVCDave -- We are heading into that tired old debate mode here but....I agree with your basic sentiment. The rules are established -- it is up to Disney to be sure the resorts are run properly and make exceptions as they see fit. However, it is not incumbent on other members to provide ways for others to save money, bring extra guests, etc., etc.

Throwing out ideas and polling how folks feel makes for interesting discussion but it is still DVC who makes the final call.