3rd year in a row going to WDW. Should I be a DVC owner?

[CarolynFH]

We bought DVC during our fourth annual visit to WDW, realizing that we wanted to continue coming every year but couldn’t afford to keep paying cash. We too had experience staying in roomy timeshares (elsewhere) and wanted that instead of hotel rooms for our family. We also knew we wanted to travel to other places, but we knew we could do that in addition to WDW trips. IOW, I think you are good candidates to buy DVC.

Let me point out something about the BCV January 2042 expiration date, which is only 16 1/2 years away. When that happens, your daughter will be a “soon to be” 26 year old adult. So I wouldn’t rule out a BCV resale purchase, if that’s where you want to stay. It would cost a lot less than a RIV direct purchase, and if in a few years you wanted to commit to more years of DVC ownership, you could purchase a DVC resort with a longer lifespan. Our kids were 9 and 13 when we bought in 1997, and obviously we’ve continued using our ownership long after they reached adulthood!

 

[Novatrix]

I 2nd @CarolynFH on all points.

A 2042 expiration is still a long time away should you wish to purchase into DVC and there are plenty of attractive BCV and BWV resale contracts that come on the market.

Peronally, while Riviera is still a nice resort, I'm not a fan. It's a midtier location, with a premium tier points chart.

You still have to board transportation to get back to your room, and that transportation often shuts down during inclement weather and you end up needing to walk to the front of the park to catch a bus anyway. Plus, you will need to purchase significantly more points for a one bedroom, and pay dues on those points, than for a 1 bedroom at the 2 Epcot resorts.

For example, in November for a 1 bedroom in the easiest to get category (PG for BWV, Riviera Preferred)

BCV
Weekday: 36
Weekend: 39

BWV
Weekday: 35
Weekend: 41

Riviera
Weekday: 49
Weekend: 59

Plus, due to Riviera's resale restrictions, they're selling for the same amount as BCV contracts, so you immediately have a significant loss of value should you need to resell.

If you only want to stay in the Epcot area or any of the legacy resorts, resale at BCV or BWV is the way to go.

 

[Novatrix]

Oof. I just ran the math.

1 week in Novermber
BCV 1 bedroom:258 pts
Resale @$120/pt (not including closing and doc fees) equals $30,960
Annual dues @$9.12/pt equal $2,352.96

Riviera 1 bedroom preferred view: 363 pts
Direct @$235/pt equals $85,305.
Annual dues @ $9.06/pt equals $3,288.78

 

[Sandisw]

Oof. I just ran the math.

1 week in Novermber
BCV 1 bedroom:258 pts
Resale @$120/pt (not including closing and doc fees) equals $30,960
Annual dues @$9.12/pt equal $2,352.96

Riviera 1 bedroom preferred view: 363 pts
Direct @$235/pt equals $85,305.
Annual dues @ $9.06/pt equals $3,288.78

Just remember that in 2042, RiV will continue…and potentially still have at least some resale value.

Getting Resort view at RIV as an owner in a 1 bedroom as an owner should prove pretty reliable!

But, if BCV is where you want to be, then it’s worth it to buy there, especially if you like the numbers!

 

[RichVIII]

After our first cash BLT 1-BR, we were hooked. I only wished we had taken that 10k in cash spent (well my mother in law spent) and used it to buy points or even had rented points. 10+ years later we are glad we did buy shortly afterwards. It’s changed how we have Disney vacationed. It has taken us to Hawaii and we still travel to plenty of other places. I got the love for BCV. We love it and stay there as much as we can.

 

[Novatrix]

Based on the current math, presuming current resale price for Riviera keeps apace with inflation and experiences no decrease in present value during its own shortening lifespan, BCV can go to 0 and still be worth ~$12k more than Riviera in current dollars over the life of the contract.

Plus, when Riviera finally sells out, and you have the increased competition from resale contract that HAVE to book Riviera, I suspect it will be more competitive to book standard view there than standard for BWV.

There are definitely fans of Riviera, but I think it's irresponsible to recommend the resort without noting it's myriad of faults.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Oof. I just ran the math.

1 week in Novermber
BCV 1 bedroom:258 pts
Resale @$120/pt (not including closing and doc fees) equals $30,960
Annual dues @$9.12/pt equal $2,352.96

Riviera 1 bedroom preferred view: 363 pts
Direct @$235/pt equals $85,305.
Annual dues @ $9.06/pt equals $3,288.78

Not quite accurate math since you get developer credits and potential MB buy back so the price for let’s say 300pts (since PV really isn’t necessary for 1bdrms at Rivera, RV has great availability for lot of the year before 7mos) is $62,700 with the $26/pt credit and if OP wanted to use MB they could for another $6000, plus whatever other smaller discounts like the referral code for new buyers and the D23 discount running right now. The total for a new member could be around $55,200 for 300 pts at a resort that expires in 46yrs as opposed to 16.

Still a hefty sum of money difference but the math is much better when all that is added up. I know not everyone does their math this simply but for brevity sake, those numbers make the price/pt for the duration of the contract $4/pt before dues. Doing similar math for BCV (260pts @$120 with 17yrs worth of points left assuming a loaded contract) is $7.05/pt.

I think both options have serious pros and cons, but I personally think the short life span of the contract should be looked at with nearly the same scrutiny as potential resale depreciation because the OP isn’t walking into this process assuming selling in the future. I understand weighing all options and potential risks is also important but it’s harder to gauge give a number value to hypotheticals and unknowns. The actual consideration right now is a resale contract with 16yrs left that can’t book anr new resorts and a direct contract that has none of those limitations with 46yrs left. Poly is another one to consider, but I think the OP wants closer access to Epcot so RIV is the better option of those two.

Ultimately, I agree that if the heart wants BCV, I think it’s worth it to buy there. DVC isn’t an investment, your primary consideration shouldn’t be returns of cash value. That’s also why I don’t think the depreciation of RIV should be as big of thing as people make it. It will still have value if ever sold, but if you love it, it will make up for whatever losses in the memories and trips you get to enjoy with your contract. If OP doesn’t like RIV or Poly or any other location but BCV, then they have their answer.

 

[Novatrix]

I wasn't aware that Disney was offering any current developer credits, as I am not in the market, but obviously the math will change depending on exact pricing at a given time for either a direct or a resale contract. It doesn't change that the utility of a point at Riviera isn't the same as the utility of a point at Beach Club as the points chart is inflated there.

Honestly, if I were in OP's shoes, if the goal was to be in the EPCOT area in a 1 bedroom, and they aren't overly certain about DVC, I would visualize staying in a 1 bedroom at Boardwalk (unfortunately, same layout as BCV/BRV/SSR with the bathroom access) and if the step down from Storm-a-long Bay wasn't too big a deal for them, pick up a cheap resale contract there and book standard view 1 bedrooms. (206 points from my example week in November.) Less initial investment, smaller contract, much better resale value than a direct Riviera contract (that you immediately lose 50% of value on the resale market.) If they love DVC, and want a later expiration date, sell that and buy direct at the Riviera/Yacht Club Tower/Beach Club 2.0/whatever other new location gets cooked up.

I do find the evolution of DVC's marketing and the impact on the mindset of new members interesting. From the mid-2000s up until they took away the blue card for resale buyers in 2016, it used to be heavily marketed that DVC retained resale value better than any other timeshare so should you ever need to sell, because life happens, you could without too bad of a financial hit. Now with the marketing focus being "FOMO for all the new and shiny benefits and resorts," its attracting new members with a different mindset.

 

[noisykid]

Thanks everyone, some great thoughts so far!

I’m not really interested in Riviera. If we were going to choose something other than Beach and still wanted to stay in Epcot, we’d do Boardwalk. The walkability is key. Not a fan of buses and the Skyliner can be hit or miss. Otherwise, we would look into Poly maybe. In any case, it’s more about to DVC or not than where at this point I think.

 

[Novatrix]

Even with the buy in costs and dues, DVC would save you roughly $500/night on the 1 bedroom at Beach Club if you pick up a resale contract vs rack rate.

I think you'd need to evaluate whether you forsee this being a short period (only a couple more years of trips) or if you want to tie up that much cash in a contract (never finance DVC) but otherwise it seems like a good fit.

 

[ldo]

You are paying a chunk that could be applied to a DVC purchase. so, I'd consider DVC. I'd look at direct purchase incentives closely and then compare to resale. I'd only buy enough points for EOY, so you're not "locked" into DVC, but can still get sizeable savings for those EOY trips. If you find you "need" more DVC points, you can get another contract. Given your parameters, I'd suggest Poly as the best to have decent resale value given the number of years left.
But, as others have said, for November, you are unlikely to get BCV/BWV with resale. You would have a decent shot at AKV/SSR for a 1BR (as they are the least in demand). But, it might take a waitlist and piecing together day by day. With direct, you might be able to negotiate DVC to swap points for your Nov. cash reservation.

 

[Sandisw]

Based on the current math, presuming current resale price for Riviera keeps apace with inflation and experiences no decrease in present value during its own shortening lifespan, BCV can go to 0 and still be worth ~$12k more than Riviera in current dollars over the life of the contract.

Plus, when Riviera finally sells out, and you have the increased competition from resale contract that HAVE to book Riviera, I suspect it will be more competitive to book standard view there than standard for BWV.

There are definitely fans of Riviera, but I think it's irresponsible to recommend the resort without noting it's myriad of faults.

Where one buys and how they value it is different for all owners.

Resort view is already difficult for owners and it is more than 3/4ths sold.

During home resort, all points are the same, so restrictions play no role.

If one owns anywhere with high demand rooms, one should be booking at 11 months.

The numbers simply don’t bare out that the % of restricted points at RIv will ever be high enough ti have a meaning impact on home resort booking patterns.

As you even note, unrestricted resorts like BWV have a booking problem for Resort views.

Now, I do think that someone who considers resale RIv should be sure they can take advantage of home resort bookings but if they don’t, then they will quickly learn its importance

I still contend that the resort one wants to stay at, if there is one, should always be the top because one never knows what changes DVC can make.

The 11/7 month window does not have to stay that way…DVC can increase or decrease home resort booking period, which impacts trading.

In the end, as long as one is comfortable with it all. It’s good!!

 

[noisykid]

You are paying a chunk that could be applied to a DVC purchase. so, I'd consider DVC. I'd look at direct purchase incentives closely and then compare to resale. I'd only buy enough points for EOY, so you're not "locked" into DVC, but can still get sizeable savings for those EOY trips. If you find you "need" more DVC points, you can get another contract. Given your parameters, I'd suggest Poly as the best to have decent resale value given the number of years left.
But, as others have said, for November, you are unlikely to get BCV/BWV with resale. You would have a decent shot at AKV/SSR for a 1BR (as they are the least in demand). But, it might take a waitlist and piecing together day by day. With direct, you might be able to negotiate DVC to swap points for your Nov. cash reservation.

When you say negotiate DVC to swap points, would this just be a matter of saying "Hey we really want to stay in a 1BR at BCV on these dates we've already booked?" BCV is definitely our number 1 choice, if it weren't for the 2042 expiration, I probably wouldn't bother considering Poly, but here we are.

 

[ldo]

When you say negotiate DVC to swap points, would this just be a matter of saying "Hey we really want to stay in a 1BR at BCV on these dates we've already booked?"

Yes. I haven't kept up with the ins/outs. But in the past, some posted that DVC Sales applied their "new" DVC points to an existing cash reservation. No idea if that's still done. But, I'd certainly try--making it a deal-breaker ("we'd only buy now if DVC can apply our new points to that reservation, as there's no reason to buy "now" if we cannot get that Nov. reservation covered"). And, I'd get written confirmation before the deal closes.
Maybe start a new post asking if anyone has gotten direct DVC applied to existing reservation in the past year and see what they say. Good luck! Elaine

 

[noisykid]

Yes. I haven't kept up with the ins/outs. But in the past, some posted that DVC Sales applied their "new" DVC points to an existing cash reservation. No idea if that's still done. But, I'd certainly try--making it a deal-breaker ("we'd only buy now if DVC can apply our new points to that reservation, as there's no reason to buy "now" if we cannot get that Nov. reservation covered"). And, I'd get written confirmation before the deal closes.
Maybe start a new post asking if anyone has gotten direct DVC applied to existing reservation in the past year and see what they say. Good luck! Elaine

I just spoke with a DVC guide for quite a while. He was great and answered a bunch of questions. They do have BCV points to sell me (no incentives), as well as Poly (current incentives). He said they would apply the DVC points regardless of property to an existing cash reservation. It seems this is for new DVC members only, or so he stated. As I was inquiring about an October UY, he mentioned that we would get 2024's points and could use those for our existing booking this coming Nov regardless of where we purchase, or sell them back to Disney at $20/point if we purchased Poly. So all said, I need to do some more math. Being able to use 2024's points for an existing 1BR BCV stay is definitely a bonus. As for BCV vs Poly, we need to weigh the BCV/Epcot benefit vs. the 2042 expiration.

 

[WDWfantasy]

I just spoke with a DVC guide for quite a while. He was great and answered a bunch of questions. They do have BCV points to sell me (no incentives), as well as Poly (current incentives). He said they would apply the DVC points regardless of property to an existing cash reservation. It seems this is for new DVC members only, or so he stated. As I was inquiring about an October UY, he mentioned that we would get 2024's points and could use those for our existing booking this coming Nov regardless of where we purchase, or sell them back to Disney at $20/point if we purchased Poly. So all said, I need to do some more math. Being able to use 2024's points for an existing 1BR BCV stay is definitely a bonus. As for BCV vs Poly, we need to weigh the BCV/Epcot benefit vs. the 2042 expiration.

I would say buy BCV if that’s where you want to stay. I’d pick 16 years of staying exactly where I want to stay over 16 years of staying somewhere else and wishing I were at BCV the whole time. In 16 years you might be done with DVC anyway, or maybe you’ll add on another longer term contract over time. Follow your gut and not just the numbers on paper.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I just spoke with a DVC guide for quite a while. He was great and answered a bunch of questions. They do have BCV points to sell me (no incentives), as well as Poly (current incentives). He said they would apply the DVC points regardless of property to an existing cash reservation. It seems this is for new DVC members only, or so he stated. As I was inquiring about an October UY, he mentioned that we would get 2024's points and could use those for our existing booking this coming Nov regardless of where we purchase, or sell them back to Disney at $20/point if we purchased Poly. So all said, I need to do some more math. Being able to use 2024's points for an existing 1BR BCV stay is definitely a bonus. As for BCV vs Poly, we need to weigh the BCV/Epcot benefit vs. the 2042 expiration.

The thing is you know your financial situation best so take this with a grain of salt if you’re really not worried about the money but I don’t know if there’s a single person on here who would say there’s any value in buying a large BCV contract directly from DVC. The math is really bad. You might be better off paying cash hotel prices for the next 15 years than buying BCV directly from Disney. Resale, the math definitely still works even off it’s not the best value you could get with it being a 2042. We bought BCV last year and are super happy with it.

You do seem like a great candidate for DVC but if staying at BCV this fall on points is really important to you purchasing at all, I’d highly recommend buying Poly now so your guide can give you your welcome home stay and then start looking for a BCV resale contract for future stays. Not ideal if you’d never stay at poly but if you don’t mind it or are ok maybe doing split stays/switching which resort you start at every other year, this could work for you.

If you can wait and are ok with staying somewhere else for your upcoming trip (or maybe keep the cash booking for this trip), then just go resale BCV and decide if you want to add direct later.

 

[sethschroeder]

I would possibly look at Boardwalk or Beach Club for resale honestly. The only thing you will miss out on is:
1) APs - this could save you a little money but you would only save after spending lots more
2) Small discounts (many of which you can get with a Disney Visa)
3) Use your points at new resorts (right now only RIV or Fort Wilderness) which doesn't impact you since you want to stay walkable

Otherwise, we would look into Poly maybe

POLY vs Beach Club and Boardwalk is fairly different

Being next to MK (boat/monorail away) with a longer monorail to Epcot is fairly different than being on the backside of Epcot with ease of access to Epcot food and festival food. If you don't get park hoppers though it might not make as big of a difference.

You are thinking about buying POLY I would 100% say you should stay there (at least for a couple nights this fall) to get a feeling if you like it or not.

We are Epcot people, stayed at Grand Floridian, and while it was nice not having ease of access to Epcot and even HS was a negative for us.

 

[Novatrix]

Poly is a much better value proposition if going direct, and the new Island Tower is very nice.

Still do the math and compare the number of points needed for a 1 bedroom there vs the 1 bedroom at BCV, then consider the price per point.

Though, if you love the Crescent Lake resorts, they literally can't be beat for access to Epcot. 10 min walk from BCV to Epcot completely changes the equation for popping in for a quick visit compared to a long trek to the monorail, waiting for the monorail, walking from the front of the park to World Showcase, then needing to repeat the reverse at the end of your visit.

 

[noisykid]

The thing is you know your financial situation best so take this with a grain of salt if you’re really not worried about the money but I don’t know if there’s a single person on here who would say there’s any value in buying a large BCV contract directly from DVC. The math is really bad.

Totally agree on the math for BCV from Disney direct, $275/point when you can get one somewhere around $120/pt is quite a leap. I even think $120ish is high given the 2042 exp.

POLY vs Beach Club and Boardwalk is fairly different

Being next to MK (boat/monorail away) with a longer monorail to Epcot is fairly different than being on the backside of Epcot with ease of access to Epcot food and festival food. If you don't get park hoppers though it might not make as big of a difference.

You are thinking about buying POLY I would 100% say you should stay there (at least for a couple nights this fall) to get a feeling if you like it or not.

We are Epcot people, stayed at Grand Floridian, and while it was nice not having ease of access to Epcot and even HS was a negative for us.

We stayed at Poly year before last for a week and enjoyed it. I also spent plenty of time there many moons ago, so we have a good feel for it and it would likely be one of our top choices on the MK side of things. Only thing I will say, which I guess is more of a question, it seemed a lot busier this past January (post tower opening) than it did the previous January (pre tower opening), does that ring true for anyone else? We very much enjoy MK for 1 or 2 days every trip as well, it's just with being able to walk in the back entrance to Epcot on Park Hoppers at any point in the trip is great for all the food options, a quick ride or 2, or a Rose and Crown pint and an impromptu fireworks show viewing. Those unplanned times are when the magic is made, in my opinion.

So at this point, we need to review all the numbers, all the advice, and what the heart wants, and decide what makes the most sense given our Disney goals.