2042 and Extensions

[RNstitches]

Maybe I dont know exactly what point washing means, but wouldnt the $100 proposed be all profit basically? It'd just be them flipping a switch and making your points unrestricted right?

"Point washing" would mean that if a contract extension was offered for a fee, because the transaction would be through Disney directly, the resale points could theoretically become direct points, eliminating any restrictions that were in place for resale.

 

[zavandor]

You have to recognize that's an opinion. I find the BLT layout to be ideal, and the PVB layout to be wasteful.

As a single traveler, I agree. The studios are large, but two bathrooms, one of which very large, are a waste and the living area feels a bit cramped.
I see why a family would prefer the two bathrooms, though.

 

[sethschroeder]

if an extension will be offered

They are not offering an extension but they will possibly offer a early bird offer to existing users of the resorts. Its an "extension" but with a full new contract and everything. What you sign up for essentially is post dated to when the resort expires.

They possibly give you a promo of extra points they acquire from ROFR during the last 2-3 years before the resort expires.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe I dont know exactly what point washing means, but wouldnt the $100 proposed be all profit basically? It'd just be them flipping a switch and making your points unrestricted right?

Correct. You pay a fee and now all your points are good everywhere. The restrictions just started with RIV so I think it is too early in the plan for them to offer this type of program.

However, the language was set up with RIV that this indeed can become an option down the road, and it is very possible we will see it when resale owners are shut out of more resorts. But, I do think that whatever program comes to pass, the cost won't be inexpensive in such a way that buying resale and then washing your points to make them eligible everywhere (and even count toward membership extras) comes out cheaper than just buying direct in the first place.

So, while the entire process of changing the points to become unrestricted would be pure profit, the loss of direct sales to begin with is not...and that is why I think they need to have more resorts with restrictions before this becomes something people will pay a decent amount for in order for DVD to have it as an option.

 

[heynowirv]

How did the OKW extension work with resale points? Was it only offered to direct?

It was offered to everyone who owned there,I believe it was in 2010.The cost was 25. a point with a 10. rebate given if memory serves me well .So basically you were paying 15. pp for an extra 15 years.

 

[Genie+]

How did the OKW extension work with resale points? Was it only offered to direct?

I’m pretty sure it included all OKW owners.

In Sep ‘07 the OKW 15 years extension was offered for $25, or $15 by Feb 29, 2008 (leap day!). Came with lighthouse memory capsule collectable, a print, and $30 off upcoming dues for time/effort. Back then OKW direct sold in low $90s.

Roughly 20% of OKW owners paid for the extension. Adding in OKW contracts flipped back into direct sale with 2057 expiration, brings the total to over 25% OKW contracts having the longer expiration.

Owners prior to the extension offer who never responded (did not commit/reject) may or may not still be able to have the 2057 expiration due to the DVC contract wording.

 

[Sandisw]

How did the OKW extension work with resale points? Was it only offered to direct?

There was no difference between resale points and direct points when that happened. Even if there were, this type of situation could never be something offered based on the type of points because an extension changed the terms of the POS and the ground lease.

All owners of the resort have to have the same rules for using that resort. The resale changes can only apply to things outside of home resort use. For example, that is why they can limit resale buyers from trading into RIV because that is an agreement with BVTC and the resort. It is why they can limit direct points only to trading for cruises, etc. and its why they can offer membership extras to owners who have direct points.

In the case of OKW, once the POS was changed, all contracts now expire in 2057. That is why original owners were asked to either pay for the extension or sign a quit claim deed giving it back to DVD in 2042. Any original owner who wants to sell is required to sign the quit claim deed in order to do that...

There are still owners out there that did neither and so it will be interesting to see what DVD does to handle that situation.

 

[brazzledazzler]

I know you said no debate but because of the way the land lease is written, an extension extends all points regardless of opt in. And it maintains the point chart and association status.

Based on the legalities and the direction of DVC, it is much more likely a new association begins on 2/1/2042. Existing owners are given a chance to buy back in with a discount. The resorts rejoin the association on new rules. All buyers of the "extension" (which is what it will be called, even though legally everyone will be on a new contract in a new association) will be considered direct purchasers for whatever value that has at that time.

This sounds most likely.

 

[Cfabar1]

There was no difference between resale points and direct points when that happened. Even if there were, this type of situation could never be something offered based on the type of points because an extension changed the terms of the POS and the ground lease.

All owners of the resort have to have the same rules for using that resort. The resale changes can only apply to things outside of home resort use. For example, that is why they can limit resale buyers from trading into RIV because that is an agreement with BVTC and the resort. It is why they can limit direct points only to trading for cruises, etc. and its why they can offer membership extras to owners who have direct points.

In the case of OKW, once the POS was changed, all contracts now expire in 2057. That is why original owners were asked to either pay for the extension or sign a quit claim deed giving it back to DVD in 2042. Any original owner who wants to sell is required to sign the quit claim deed in order to do that...

There are still owners out there that did neither and so it will be interesting to see what DVD does to handle that situation.

So do all resale contracts and new points sold from disney for OKW now expire in 2057? Or do they make a quit claim deed contingent for all parts of the sale?

 

[Sandisw]

So do all resale contracts and new points sold from disney for OKW now expire in 2057? Or do they make a quit claim deed contingent for all parts of the sale?

Direct points sold are 2057. Original owners who want to sell must sign the quit claim deed in order to sell it so that any resale buyer is getting a 2042 expiration unless it says it’s 2057.

 

[Bearval]

There was no difference between resale points and direct points when that happened. Even if there were, this type of situation could never be something offered based on the type of points because an extension changed the terms of the POS and the ground lease.

All owners of the resort have to have the same rules for using that resort. The resale changes can only apply to things outside of home resort use. For example, that is why they can limit resale buyers from trading into RIV because that is an agreement with BVTC and the resort. It is why they can limit direct points only to trading for cruises, etc. and its why they can offer membership extras to owners who have direct points.

In the case of OKW, once the POS was changed, all contracts now expire in 2057. That is why original owners were asked to either pay for the extension or sign a quit claim deed giving it back to DVD in 2042. Any original owner who wants to sell is required to sign the quit claim deed in order to do that...

There are still owners out there that did neither and so it will be interesting to see what DVD does to handle that situation.

I think they will do nothing. 19 years is a long time to go and it has already been ~15 years since the extension has been offered. If I understand correctly if you sell you are required to sign the quit claim deed. The only way around this is for the deed to be transferred to a family member and then it is only good to them until 2057 if they keep it since they cannot sell it past 2042. My question is what happens to the contract if the owner decides in 2053 they don't want it any more and DVC decides they no longer will accept a quit claim. Will they will be on the hook for maintenance fees just like any other timeshare that cannot be sold? There will most likely be very few of the 2042 contracts left in 19 years.

 

[heynowirv]

How did the OKW extension work with resale points? Was it only offered to direct?

When the offer was made there was no class system based on direct/resale. We were all in the same "boat".It was a simple question of would you be interested in a 15 yr. extension?It was I believe a 25.pp offer with a 10.pp discount. So the bottom line was 15.00 pp to extend to 2057.

 

[hglenn]

Another question here - at what point do you think DVC makes an announcement on what they will do with the 2042 resorts? Is it 5 years out, 10 years out? At some point they will be making plans for each one (likely already happening to some degree). And, do you think they do the same with all of the 2042 resorts or is it more of a phased approach where they maybe totally expire some of the resorts but do something different with the others?

 

[kanerf]

I have an OKW resale and an OKW direct. How do you tell what the expiration date is on the resale?

 

[heynowirv]

I have an OKW resale and an OKW direct. How do you tell what the expiration date is on the resale?

It should be on your deed. If you can't find your deed than I would contact DVC.

 

[Sandisw]

I have an OKW resale and an OKW direct. How do you tell what the expiration date is on the resale?

If you bought it resale after 2005..I think that is when the extension was offered.. it is automatically going to be 2042 unless it was specially said it was as an extended contract.

Your paperwork would say and if not MA can tell you.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Understandable. But think about it... according to some studies, within 20-30 years, the entire summer in central Florida will be 100 degrees+

According to "some studies" done 15-20 years ago, Florida should be completely underwater by now. I'm not denying the climate is changing, obviously it is. But studies predicting the real world effects of it decades in advance have been comically wrong.

 

[RoseGold]

My question is what happens to the contract if the owner decides in 2053 they don't want it any more and DVC decides they no longer will accept a quit claim. Will they will be on the hook for maintenance fees just like any other timeshare that cannot be sold? There will most likely be very few of the 2042 contracts left in 19 years.

It doesn't have to be an original buyer to cause issues for Disney. It would have to be a buyer before the extension rolled out. By that point, a lot of contracts had changed hands, one way or another.

The old threads on this were fascinating. One of them said Disney would just have to take whatever the extension amount was, or maybe that Disney can't force it at all? Seems like quitclaim is the best case scenario for Disney. I don't see how they can force any kind of new association in 2042.

 

[RoseGold]

"Point washing" would mean that if a contract extension was offered for a fee, because the transaction would be through Disney directly, the resale points could theoretically become direct points, eliminating any restrictions that were in place for resale.

Point washing would mean anyone's points become developer points. It's common in other systems.

You can do it now by selling your resale and buying direct. But in other systems you can just pay a fee and they make your points into developer points, which we call direct.

DVC doesn't wash points, but it could.

 

[Brian Noble]

If I understand correctly

There are a lot of assumptions there.

I will be VERY surprised if Disney does not find a way to enforce their idea of “pay up or lose access at 2024” for original owners who’ve not either extended or signed. This is not the Mouse’s first legal rodeo, and they have time on their side.