2026 MMB info Announced

[DanCali]

Except trades are tied to the cost of the product and not related to dues.

Where does it say it has to be so? I just don't think it works that way - I think they tried to give you a value of around $15-$16/pt and if they adjust both dues and points that value will go down very fast (relative to the dues you pay for the points you use). But if the increase in the cost of the pass and dues are similar, the value will be maintained.

Moreover, increasing the cost in points will reduce usage because someone with 200 points can renew 3 passes at 65 points each, but can't do that at 70 points each. People using this option is more rental income for DVC so I would think they would like to avoid those scenarios.

Here's (half of) a test case... Here is the points chart for the 2015 Alaska member cruise. Can someone find the points chart for the 2022 Alaska member cruise (I believe rescheduled from 2020) so we can see if the cost in points went up? That's be a good test case because it's the same itinerary/ship. I searched for the pdf/screenshot quite a bit but couldn't find it...

source for 2015 chart: https://disneycruiselineblog.com/wp...ey-Collection-2015-Member-Cruise-20140519.pdf

 

[Tatebeck]

Except trades are tied to the cost of the product and not related to dues.

So, if the cash price increases then I would expect the point cost to increase.

Again, that is different then whether or not an owner thinks using points that way is a good option.

For me, I kept $1k in my bank account and in 2026 it will be close to that since I didn’t spend it on an AP.

And my dues bill was exactly the same as it would have been had I kept the points.

I would have to disagree. I would think the point cost for the pass should never (or at least very rarely) change.

The price of direct points go up over time (which are what is required to use this benefit)
The price of maintenance fees go up over time
The price of OTUPs generally goes up over time (disregarding the one decrease after the covid revenge travel boom)

So the increase in the actual cost to acquire/use points over time should make up for the increase in the pass over time.

Does anyone know if they typically increase the Disney Collection/World Collection/Cruise Point charts over time? Those would be the closest thing to compare to IMO.

ETA: @DanCali That is my thinking as well

 

[Tatebeck]

Where does it say it has to be so? I just don't think it works that way - I think they tried to give you a value of around $15-$16/pt and if they adjust both dues and points that value will go down very fast. But if the increase in the cost of the pass and dues are similar, the value will be maintained.

Moreover, increasing the cost in points will reduce usage because someone with 200 points can renew 3 passes at 65 points each, but can't do that at 70 points each. People using this option is more rental income for DVC so I would think they would like to avoid those scenarios.

Here's (half of) a test case... Here is the points chart for the 2015 Alaska member cruise. Can someone find the points chart for the 2022 Alaska member cruise (I believe rescheduled from 2020) so we can see if the cost in points went up? That's be a good test case because it's the same itinerary/ship. I searched for the pdf/screenshot quite a bit but couldn't find it...

source for 2015 chart: https://disneycruiselineblog.com/wp...ey-Collection-2015-Member-Cruise-20140519.pdf


View attachment 1016545

https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/en/points/2024-Wonder-Final.pdf

Here's the 2024 Wonder Alaska Cruise chart if that helps

 

[DanCali]

https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/en/points/2024-Wonder-Final.pdf

Here's the 2024 Wonder Alaska Cruise chart if that helps

Not quite the same - I was looking at the member cruise, not the regular Alaska Cruise, but that comparison would work too as long as you’re looking at the same type of cruise, and keeping it to apples to apples. I'll post some charts a few years apart later today, but someone will probably beat me to it!

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I agree that the value is good.

To me it's also a matter for opportunity cost. I have plenty of points for what we use but it's a mix of 25% direct and 75% resale. I think we can only use direct points for APs, and if I chose to do that it means a full year of no Cabins or Riviera stays. So even if I had the excess points to use for APs, which I don't always, renting resale points (even at same after tax $ as your AP exchange rate) and keeping the direct points may be worth it just to have the extra resort options for actual stays. I wouldn't buy CFW, but it is one of our favorite resorts to stay at.

Just to add a point, we used our points to get a new AP a few months ago and they used almost all resale points and I didn’t even ask them to. We had a few expiring direct points to use and I fully expected them to borrow from my direct contracts but she went for my cheapest resale. I don’t think it was a fluke either because a few people have reported the same that they were allowed to use resale points. I think maybe you just have to be DVCY (and B, of course) to unlock the benefit.

 

[Tatebeck]

Not quite the same - I was looking at the member cruise, not the regular Alaska Cruise, but that comparison would work too as long as you’re looking at the same type of cruise, and keeping it to apples to apples. I'll post some charts a few years apart later today, but someone will probably beat me to it!

The 2020/2022 Member cruise "starts at 328 vacation points or $2,591 per adult, based upon double occupancy. Click HERE to view the full chart showing points and cash costs for each stateroom category. "

Full link is broken unfortunately, though I found the info here https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...4410-member-cruise-returns-to-alaska-for-2020

Looks like 2020 was rescheduled to 2022 due to covid

 

[J-Dog]

Except trades are tied to the cost of the product and not related to dues.

So, if the cash price increases then I would expect the point cost to increase.

Again, that is different then whether or not an owner thinks using points that way is a good option.

For me, I kept $1k in my bank account and in 2026 it will be close to that since I didn’t spend it on an AP.

And my dues bill was exactly the same as it would have been had I kept the points.

Well, I didn't say it couldn't happen, I said that would make it a poor value.

And it would be a terrible value and not the same as budgeting cash, if points keep going up. For most of us who aren't filthy rich, our total points are more or less fixed (barring add-ons) from year to year. Whereas most of us don't have a set, unchanging amount of cash from year to year. So if cash rates go up, you just budget for it - that's a lot different than saying if points costs go up, you just add-on more points. That's not so easy.

 

[Tatebeck]

Just to add a point, we used our points to get a new AP a few months ago and they used almost all resale points and I didn’t even ask them to. We had a few expiring direct points to use and I fully expected them to borrow from my direct contracts but she went for my cheapest resale. I don’t think it was a fluke either because a few people have reported the same that they were allowed to use resale points. I think maybe you just have to be DVCY (and B, of course) to unlock the benefit.

Nope, that is incorrect. You must have been lucky and the CM unknowingly used the wrong points or you have old grandfathered points. I was told multiple times it had to be direct (or super old grandfathered) resale points that are eligible for exchanges

It is also on the FAQ
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...nd/wdw-disney-sorcerer-pass/restricted-points

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Nope, you got lucky and the CM unknowingly used the wrong points or you have old grandfathered points. I was told multiple times it had to be direct (or super old grandfathered) resale points that are eligible for exchanges

It is also on the FAQ
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...nd/wdw-disney-sorcerer-pass/restricted-points

I hear you, just giving my experience. And a few others in other threads have said the same. A common mistake it seems.

 

[J-Dog]

Nope, that is incorrect. You must have been lucky and the CM unknowingly used the wrong points or you have old grandfathered points. I was told multiple times it had to be direct (or super old grandfathered) resale points that are eligible for exchanges

It is also on the FAQ
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...nd/wdw-disney-sorcerer-pass/restricted-points

Agree. I know they won't use my resale points for it.

 

[Tatebeck]

@DanCali

Thinking about it, it would probably be easier/more accurate to compare the Disney Collection/World Collection point charts from previous years than a member cruise. Even a repeated member cruise likely won't be on the exact same date which could cause price/point fluctuation. (May vs August for the 2 we were looking for).

Disney/World Collection would have the exact same dates showing

 

[Sandisw]

Where does it say it has to be so? I just don't think it works that way - I think they tried to give you a value of around $15-$16/pt and if they adjust both dues and points that value will go down very fast (relative to the dues you pay for the points you use). But if the increase in the cost of the pass and dues are similar, the value will be maintained.

Moreover, increasing the cost in points will reduce usage because someone with 200 points can renew 3 passes at 65 points each, but can't do that at 70 points each. People using this option is more rental income for DVC so I would think they would like to avoid those scenarios.

Here's (half of) a test case... Here is the points chart for the 2015 Alaska member cruise. Can someone find the points chart for the 2022 Alaska member cruise (I believe rescheduled from 2020) so we can see if the cost in points went up? That's be a good test case because it's the same itinerary/ship. I searched for the pdf/screenshot quite a bit but couldn't find it...

source for 2015 chart: https://disneycruiselineblog.com/wp...ey-Collection-2015-Member-Cruise-20140519.pdf


View attachment 1016545

As someone involved on the cash side of things now I can tell you it does. The rates for exchanges thet DCL negotiated is based on rate of the cruise. DVC doesn’t set them all on their own.

ETA: and I asked this both via DVC and DCL.


That’s why when DCL discounts sailings, DVC owners can call and the points for those same cruises will be discounted.

My point is that they are tied together so if DVC raises points and the cash price has gone up, then I do expect we might see the cost to trade go up. I am thrilled it did not.

Again, you are talking value of points and whether it’s worth it for a member. That’s a different discussion.

As I said, dues are the same no matter what someone decides to use those points.

In terms of member cruises..DVC charters the sailing from DCL and points are determined based on the negotiation for that sailing, and whatever else DVC decides to include.

Obviously, the number of points it takes to trade impacts how many owners will participate.

But, the comment was that DVC should not raise trade values because dues go up.

Dues go up no matter what. So, it’s back to whether or not someone decides is the points required to trade makes sense for that owner against what they would do with those points if they did not.

If someone has what they consider better use for them because maximizing $/point is the priority, then trading makes less sense.

But, everyone looks at it differently. As I said, I look at the $1k I didn’t spend on an AP as a win.

So, getting back to MMB…they kept the cost to join the same..they kept the point cost for AP the same…they kept the BOGO OTU and MM the same..and kept priority lounge access

But they enhanced the WDW tickets by including 5 days of Water Parks and added a token gift at Aulani.

Obviously, some owners may still not think it’s a good value.::but owners are getting more benefits for their $99 fee.

 

[Sandisw]

Well, I didn't say it couldn't happen, I said that would make it a poor value.

And it would be a terrible value and not the same as budgeting cash, if points keep going up. For most of us who aren't filthy rich, our total points are more or less fixed (barring add-ons) from year to year. Whereas most of us don't have a set, unchanging amount of cash from year to year. So if cash rates go up, you just budget for it - that's a lot different than saying if points costs go up, you just add-on more points. That's not so easy.

I certainly never mentioned people should add on. What I said is that if someone has points they can spare, and buy an AP, they might find it worth it.

Why? Because if they don’t trade for the AP, then they have to do something else with the points….and only options would be rent, book an extra trip, or splurge on an upgrade.

Just like someone who builds in a budget for increases in ticket prices, owners build in the cost of trading for an AP when the number of points needed works for them. I expected them to rise 5 points and considered that when planning my 2026 trips.

I have now adjusted to do one less 1 bedroom solo trip to offset the points.

You obviously don’t appear to see value in using points for an AP…or don’t currently have points that can be used that way.

The good thing is that we all will look at it based on our situation because it’s not the same.

 

[Sandisw]

I would have to disagree. I would think the point cost for the pass should never (or at least very rarely) change.

The price of direct points go up over time (which are what is required to use this benefit)
The price of maintenance fees go up over time
The price of OTUPs generally goes up over time (disregarding the one decrease after the covid revenge travel boom)

So the increase in the actual cost to acquire/use points over time should make up for the increase in the pass over time.

Does anyone know if they typically increase the Disney Collection/World Collection/Cruise Point charts over time? Those would be the closest thing to compare to IMO.

ETA: @DanCali That is my thinking as well

Yes, the point charts for trades change over time and are based on negotiations with parks and resorts and DCL.

DVC gets to set the points for the trade. But when the cash price goes up, thst extra gets covered by someone…either by DVC in what they negotiated with the other division…or the ticket department who didn’t raise what they are charging DVC.

Many were convinced the $99 would be a year one price. It’s not.

But dues cover operating costs and that is why I don’t see them as relevant to what the point trade amount is.

It definitely changes the value one is getting for each point…and whether it’s a good or bad value is up to each person.

Is getting $14 to $16/point a good value? For some, no…for others yes.

So it’s going to come down to that. Now, if the goal of having owners trade is to create more rooms for DVC to sell and earn money, then they will have to consider that when setting rates.

I was simply responding to the notion that because dues increase, that should play a role in what point amount is chosen.

And, I don’t agree. I know it’s tied to cash, like the DCL and Disney Collection charts are.

Obviously DVC decided that keeping the rate the same worked.

 

[Tatebeck]

Yes, the point charts for trades change over time and are based on negotiations with parks and resorts and DCL.

DVC gets to set the points for the trade. But when the cash price goes up, thst extra gets covered by someone…either by DVC in what they negotiated with the other division…or the ticket department who didn’t raise what they are charging DVC.

Many were convinced the $99 would be a year one price. It’s not.

But dues cover operating costs and that is why I don’t see them as relevant to what the point trade amount is.

It definitely changes the value one is getting for each point…and whether it’s a good or bad value is up to each person.

Is getting $14 to $16/point a good value? For some, no…for others yes.

So it’s going to come down to that. Now, if the goal of having owners trade is to create more rooms for DVC to sell and earn money, then they will have to consider that when setting rates.

I was simply responding to the notion that because dues increase, that should play a role in what point amount is chosen.

And, I don’t agree. I know it’s tied to cash, like the DCL and Disney Collection charts are.

Obviously DVC decided that keeping the rate the same worked.

I see what you are getting at, but increases in dues can still matter, even if they are only covering operating costs.

As the cost of dues and rack rate increases, the amount of money members (and Disney themselves) renting points out will want in exchange will increase.

When dues increase years down the road to $15-20+ per point, you will not see most members renting their point out here for $18-20 per point like they are now, or Disney selling OTUP for $20. I can all but guarantee that.

So as dues rise and Disney raises their rack rates, this raises the rental value of a point, on the wider market as well as what Disney can directly rent out the points you traded in for a cruise, pass, etc. for.

If in the future the rack rate has increased, but so have the value of your points you are trading in, then there may be no need to increase the point charts for cruises, world collection swaps, etc. unless the increase in rack rate is significantly higher than the increase in value of a DVC point.

So, I agree with you that they can increase the exchange charts if they wish, but they definitely do not have to and it is is not a sure thing that they will. There is just no rule that they cannot increase the average cost of a room on the point charts like there is with DVC rooms

 

[Sandisw]

I see what you are getting at, but increases in dues can still matter, even if they are only covering operating costs.

As the cost of dues and rack rate increases, the amount of money members (and Disney themselves) renting points out will want in exchange will increase.

When dues increase years down the road to $15-20 per point, you will not see most members renting their point out here for $18-20 per point like they are now, I can all but guarantee that.

So as dues rise and Disney raises their rack rates, this raises the rental value of a point, on the wider market as well as what Disney can directly rent out the points you traded in for a cruise, pass, etc. for.

If in the future the rack rate has increased, but so have the value of your points you are trading in, then there may be no need to increase the point charts for cruises, world collection swaps, etc. unless the increase in rack rate is significantly higher than the increase in value of a DVC point.

So, I agree with you that they can increase the exchange charts if they wish, but they definitely do not have to and it is is not a sure thing that they will. There is just no rule that they cannot increase the average cost of a room on the point charts like there is with DVC rooms

As I said, my responses were not about whether or not the value you are getting for your points isn’t different when you trade.

But, I can tell you that DVC uses cash rates to set the charts and that the other divisions are involved in making decisions in regards to that. .

I will leave it there.

 

[Tatebeck]

As I said, my responses were not about whether or not the value you are getting for your points isn’t different when you trade.

But, I can tell you that DVC uses cash rates to set the charts and that the other divisions are involved in that and what happens.

I will leave it there.

I understand, I am just saying that if they are adjusting the price with the current cash rate for what you are trading to try and get, why wouldn't they also adjust the current price/value (to Disney, not to us) of the points you are trading in to them at the same time. That is all

 

[Sandisw]

I understand, I am just saying that if they are adjusting the price with the current cash rate for what you are trading to try and get, why wouldn't they also adjust the current price/value (to Disney, not to us) of the points you are trading in to them at the same time. That is all

When they raise the points we trade, they do get more because they get to take more rooms to rent which gives them more income.

 

[DanCali]

When they raise the points we trade, they do get more because they get to take more rooms to rent which gives them more income.

That's only if the increase in points required for the trade doesn't affect the number of people doing trades. But since the number of points owners have is generally fixed, some will get priced out and DVC may end with fewer points at the end.

The example for that I gave earlier was that an owner with 200 points can get 3 AP renewals at 65 points per AP (DVC gets 195 points) but only 2 renewals at 70 points per AP renewal (DVC gets 140 points). So does increasing the cost of the AP renewal from 65 points to 70 points always benefit DVC? Maybe the other people who continue to renew offsets those losses, but it's not obvious that it would.