2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[Sandisw]

It seems like the only meeting we have reports that renting came up is BWV.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It seems like the only meeting we have reports that renting came up is BWV.

It is heavily rented that could be why.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

It is heavily rented that could be why.

If I read his post correctly, it was MouseForward who asked the question there?

 

[Sandisw]

It is heavily rented that could be why.

Last year the big discussion and the one that was written about in DVC News was the VGF meeting.

Obviously the people who attended don’t have questions about it and they only answer what is asked.

I personally did not ask about the topic because I have all the answers I need right now.

 

[RivShore]

Was about to say the same, the vast majority of owners just don't care that they don't know this stuff, they just use their points for what they want.

And case in point, with 38 pages of discussion on the $500 transfer fee, it seems @Sandisw was the only one to ask a question about it at any of the meetings.

 

[muppets3d]

That's a heck of a business model. Build a resort, sell 98% of the total points to consumers, who then cover 98% of the operating expenses and capital reserves, then acquire 20% of those points back each year to rent out rooms to cash customers. Am I understanding that correctly? Brilliant!

Why would Disney ever build another traditional hotel?

Well other than the Gran Destino Tower they haven't really built any new hotel rooms in quite a few years, I'm sure because the DVC model has worked so well for them.

 

[OKW Lover]

Given that any room that is available at 7 months at BCV is snapped in seconds, do you think many rooms go into breakage?

When a room goes into breakage it is no longer in DVC inventory.

 

[zavandor]

When a room goes into breakage it is no longer in DVC inventory.

This is how I think it works.
The first source of breakage inventory is rooms that are not booked at 60 days. But looking at the availability charts, it seems that those might be a few 1BR in August and September only at SSR and OKW. Non much more. Everything else is mostly fully booked year around.
DVC can anticipate breakage inventory and pre-book the rooms, so in theory it's possible that we don't see rooms available at 60 days because DVC is very good at anticipating those. But i don't believe that.
For example, we know that whatever is left at BCV and BWV, it's booked in seconds at 7 months. I know because I often try.
But BCV and BWV still meet their limit on contributions to the budget from breakage inventory. So, how is it possible if no room arrives unbooked at 60 days?

My speculations start now.
The lockoff premium. DVC knows on average which percentage of the lockoff 2BR are booked separately as studio+1BR so they can book enough rooms with the points they anticipate will be generated by the lockoff premium.
How does this affect availability, we don't know because DVC is not transparent.
I think it would be fair to give owners a chance, not book anything with the breakage points until 10 or 9 months.
In an ideal world, DVC would book between 11 and 7 months only with part of the breakage points, enough to be sure to cover the amount that goes as contribution to the budget. Everything else (that goes into their pockets) should be booked at 6-7 months, eventually at other resorts too.
Do they do that? Who knows; if I have to bet, I'd say no.

 

[Sandisw]

Renting is alive and well (removed link)

At least it’s not spec renting! I don’t really worry about point renting and do it myself when needed…. It’s the spec renting ….

I think anyone expecting them to put a stop to that when it’s not being done by an owner who is renting a lot may end up disappointed.

They know how often people have rooms in others names, how often they overlap, and how often they call to change lead guest names.

But, what we know is that they monitor things, they have a policy in place and if they feel that the policy or any of the rules need further clarification or changing, we will be notified in some way…whether it be via FAQs, updates to the policy, an additional policy or an updated to HRR.

Until then, one has to decide whether the level of renting they are doing is going to tip the scales.

If you read the article, it sounds like a comment about offsetting dues was mentioned.

It’s always going to come down to each individual owner reading the rules and deciding if the number of reservations in others names looks like a pattern of rentals that can be seen as commercial renting.

 

[Sandisw]

I deleted screenshots and links from the R/T thread. We do not allow that. If you want to discuss things in general, that is allowed,,,

People can head to that thread if they are interested in knowing what is being offered.

 

[Genie+]

I deleted screenshots from the R/T thread. We do not allow that. If you want to discuss things in general, that is allowed,,,

People can head to that thread if they are interested in knowing what is being offered.

Well it’s not easy to access because there is so much activity going back years. Yes, people can go look for themselves using advanced search.

I agree with the point that at least this is not Spec Renting, even if individual people are renting thousands of points annually.

It does make me wonder what the heck it takes for DVC to see something as ‘a pattern of rental activity’ that is not personal use.

While this may be excessive, I still don’t view nearly as detrimental as Spec Reservations are to a personal use timeshare system like DVC. At least this member is not holding the inventory while looking for a match.

 

[Sandisw]

This is how I think it works.
The first source of breakage inventory is rooms that are not booked at 60 days. But looking at the availability charts, it seems that those might be a few 1BR in August and September only at SSR and OKW. Non much more. Everything else is mostly fully booked year around.
DVC can anticipate breakage inventory and pre-book the rooms, so in theory it's possible that we don't see rooms available at 60 days because DVC is very good at anticipating those. But i don't believe that.
For example, we know that whatever is left at BCV and BWV, it's booked in seconds at 7 months. I know because I often try.
But BCV and BWV still meet their limit on contributions to the budget from breakage inventory. So, how is it possible if no room arrives unbooked at 60 days?

My speculations start now.
The lockoff premium. DVC knows on average which percentage of the lockoff 2BR are booked separately as studio+1BR so they can book enough rooms with the points they anticipate will be generated by the lockoff premium.
How does this affect availability, we don't know because DVC is not transparent.
I think it would be fair to give owners a chance, not book anything with the breakage points until 10 or 9 months.
In an ideal world, DVC would book between 11 and 7 months only with part of the breakage points, enough to be sure to cover the amount that goes as contribution to the budget. Everything else (that goes into their pockets) should be booked at 6-7 months, eventually at other resorts too.
Do they do that? Who knows; if I have to bet, I'd say no.

I have never seenany info on when and how often they take advantage of their right to anticipate breakage.

What I do not know is is that is something that is part of the detailed records owners can request to review in person.

Some of the abilities we give to them, and this one is allowed under FL 721 as well, don’t always have to be explained or detailed to owners.

Now, my guess is that it might be part of it because we get a % of that income…anyone interested would need to contact them.

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out it’s less popular rooms generally, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find other rooms as well…

 

[OKW Lover]

This is how I think it works.
The first source of breakage inventory is rooms that are not booked at 60 days.

I wonder what percentage falls into this category as opposed to people using points for a cruise or something similar.

What if I, with an October use year, decides in January to use points to buy an AP after paying the necessary fee? Those points are no longer in the DVC inventory for whatever resort they belong.

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder what percentage falls into this category as opposed to people using points for a cruise or something similar.

What if I, with an October use year, decides in January to use points to buy an AP after paying the necessary fee? Those points are no longer in the DVC inventory for whatever resort they belong.

From the report, it was that 20% was being exchanged out..with BWV being around 15% and not tied to breakage.

ETA: Breakage is created when owners do nothing with their points, or as, mentioned, if ore owners are booking lock offs as studios and 1 bedrooms.

I interpreted the statement as a way to explain that some of the availability issues people see may not solely be because of owners renting, but because at BWV, 15% of the points are exchanged out which means 15% of the rooms are taken away to pay for those exchanges.

So, on average, only 85% of declared rooms are available for points based bookings because they rest went to the cash side vis exchanges.

 

[Sandisw]

To add, DVC gets to decide what rooms to take to rent for cash to pay for an exchange.