2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[Sandisw]

They follow the same rules (sorry I put 10 rather than 7, I had dining on my mind), but their flexible home resort advantage allows them to select premium dates that are then not available for people at 7 months. Buy where you want to stay

Since owners at every resort trade out, and it’s higher than I think many of us thought, they get a lot of points at every home resort to pull inventory for renting.

So, in that sense, yes, they get it all!

 

[airjay75]

I guess my question would be- if I trade 400 points into a cruise, and 200 are from say OKW, and 200 are from Riviera just as an example, does Disney have 400 points to use at any resort to sell a cash room, or is it strictly limited to the resorts those points originated from, like breakage?

I could be wrong, but I think they still have to abide by the 7 and 11 month windows that we all do with our points. It seems like their primary flexibility comes from the ability to just take the rooms/points they want out of inventory and then figure out how to sell those rooms. They don't have to make a reservation the way we do.

I also wonder how points traded into II work in terms of using those points. Presumably, those points are used at some point to make a DVC reservation and then the week is listed as an available exchange for non-DVC II users to trade into. I presume those points have to continue to follow the same 7 and 11 month windows. But, who makes the reservation with those points? Someone from DVC or someone from II? And what factors go into deciding what to book and list for exchange?

I saw a discussion on a FB group once where folks were angry that a resort other than SSR/OKW (might have been BCV or BWV, can't remember) was listed as an available II exchange more than 7 months away, which meant home resort priority was clearly used to make that reservation. I sort of thought, well, if an owner at one of those resorts deposited those points into II, seems like it is fair game for those points to be used with home resort priority, but not clear to me who makes that decision or how the process works exactly.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess my question would be- if I trade 400 points into a cruise, and 200 are from say OKW, and 200 are from Riviera just as an example, does Disney have 400 points to use at any resort to sell a cash room, or is it strictly limited to the resorts those points originated from, like breakage?

If they want to pull the rooms during the home resort period, they have to match the home resort.

If they pull rooms at 7 months or less, anywhere. Now, I could see them using popular resort points to snag home resort and those at less popular at 7 months.

But, owners choosing to exchange their points doesn’t give DVC new rules. Points follow normal rules which includes home resort.

 

[Sandisw]

I could be wrong, but I think they still have to abide by the 7 and 11 month windows that we all do with our points. It seems like their primary flexibility comes from the ability to just take the rooms/points they want out of inventory and then figure out how to sell those rooms. They don't have to make a reservation the way we do.

I also wonder how points traded into II work in terms of using those points. Presumably, those points are used at some point to make a DVC reservation and then the week is listed as an available exchange for non-DVC II users to trade into. I presume those points have to continue to follow the same 7 and 11 month windows. But, who makes the reservation with those points? Someone from DVC or someone from II? And what factors go into deciding what to book and list for exchange?

I saw a discussion on a FB group once where folks were angry that a resort other than SSR/OKW (might have been BCV or BWV, can't remember) was listed as an available II exchange more than 7 months away, which meant home resort priority was clearly used to make that reservation. I sort of thought, well, if an owner at one of those resorts deposited those points into II, seems like it is fair game for those points to be used with home resort priority, but not clear to me who makes that decision or how the process works exactly.

My understanding is that DVC chooses what rooms to deposit to II when an owners exhanges in.

You see a lot of SSR and OKW rooms there…which seems to imply they use those points or rely on 7 months to pull rooms.

 

[airjay75]

My understanding is that DVC chooses what rooms to deposit to II when an owners exhanges in.

You see a lot of SSR and OKW rooms there…which seems to imply they use those points or rely on 7 months to pull rooms.

That's interesting. I wonder whether they use it as an escape valve, so to speak, for either SSR/OKW points or points at other resorts that don't get rented out. DVC gets this 20% bucket of points, probably attempts to maximize their profit on renting out those points and, then, tosses the leftovers into II to meet exchange requests, primarily with SSR/OKW reservations. Makes sense to me.

 

[Cfabar1]

For those who want DVC, I'd say those RIV favorite weeks look pretty attractive right now and well worth the points premium!

BWV being 15% (or below average) is likely because just how good of a deal BWV is... I'd imagine that at resorts like OKW where the cash rates have a better chance of measuring favorably it might be well over 15%...

seems like an odd strategy to be so public with this information... trying to figure out why...

 

[Sandisw]

That's interesting. I wonder whether they use it as an escape valve, so to speak, for either SSR/OKW points or points at other resorts that don't get rented out. DVC gets this 20% bucket of points, probably attempts to maximize their profit on renting out those points and, then, tosses the leftovers into II to meet exchange requests, primarily with SSR/OKW reservations. Makes sense to me.

I am sure it plays a role because they have to pay the other division for the trade.

So, they don’t get to keep all the rental amount. They just get the extra! But, they pay DCL or ABD, or the ticket division for what owners chose.

 

[VGCgroupie]

seems like an odd strategy to be so public with this information... trying to figure out why...

Agree. Has me wondering they read comments and decided to go with the DVC is the biggest renter of points so commercial renting isn't a problem theory.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I also wonder how points traded into II work in terms of using those points. Presumably, those points are used at some point to make a DVCreservation and then the week is listed as an available exchange for non-DVC II users to trade into. I presume those points have to continue to follow the same 7 and 11 month windows. But, who makes the reservation with those points? Someone from DVC or someone from II? And what factors go into deciding what to book and list for exchange?.

Back when DVC was best buddies with RCI my understanding was that DVC would estimate how many points members would use in RCI for each year. DVC would then deposit units into RCI matching that number of points. DVC could choose which resorts to deposit. Obviously studios would require double the amount of units compared to 1br.

That’s also why after the news broke about DVC partnering with II and giving members notice that starting 1/1/22 they would be the new exchange company, new deposits kept coming in with RCI long after 1/1/22. DVC had miscalculated how many points members would use in RCI and had to continue to make deposits to honor their agreement.

It appears that the number of points being used for something else than DVC keeps growing.

People here can close their eyes all they want but regardless of DVC being allowed to rent or not, it’s a huge problem that they rent 20% of all available points. If you combine all LLC’s and owners that rent they don’t come close to renting 20% of all available points.

By renting 20% would DVC try and maximize their rentals by booking the most profitable room? Of course they would. Have you ever seen the mouse leaving money on the table? Sure they also book 1br’s but why do you think that 1br often become available less than 30 days out? It’s because DVC dumps the rooms back into inventory again. Most likely they don’t need to make a reservation to get the rooms initially, meaning they don’t need to cancel the reservations and risk points going into holding.

 

[Cfabar1]

And I would imagine DVC could automate the process to pull certain rooms right at 8
am at 11 months, something a member cannot do.

 

[Mouseforward]

Sorry not to post as I’ve been enjoying disney. I asked the boardwalk question on renting - did not think the answer was newsworthy. I will only add for context- They were clearly expecting the question. @Sandisw sorry I did not say hi I was unsure what you looked like.

 

[lowlight]

Instead of all the speculation about the practice, is it possible to request the information? I imagine there has to be some type of oversight committee or checks and balances, otherwise it would be ripe for fraud, intentional or not.

 

[zavandor]

Wondering if the 20% (15% at BWV) cash rentals by Disney include breakage.
Have they conflated exchange points and lockoff premium? If I were in them, I would have, I wouldn't want to attract attention too much on how unfair the lockoff premium is. Just hide the real number behind exchanges.
The reason I suspect the lockoff premium has a disproportionate effect on breakage is that all resorts including BCV or BWV, hit the maximum budget contribution to dues due to breakage. Have you ever seen a BCV room available at 60 days, except a spare few nights due to a last minute cancellation? It's the lockoff premium that generates so much extra revenue, most of which goes into DVC pockets.

 

[kilik64]

At the end of the day, I guess the complaint boils down to people wishing others just wasted their points so they had a better chance of getting their preferred room on the preferred date, whether that actually increases their chances in reality or not.

 

[Brian Noble]

We are power users who would never use exchange as its a bad use of points, but apparently tons of normal DVC owners use em for cruises and other exchanges apparently.

There is a reason why I was able to exchange in to villas for 15+ years. Someone had to be exchanging out (using either Interval or RCI) for that to happen!

Now, these were almost always among the lowest-demand rooms on property, and that has been even more true over the last 5-10 years or so---beggars, choosers, etc. So at least timeshare exchange is not the source of booking for high-demand inventory. No one is beating down the doors to book a 1BR at SSR or OKW.

 

[Brian Noble]

Back when DVC was best buddies with RCI my understanding was that DVC would estimate how many points members would use in RCI for each year. DVC would then deposit units into RCI matching that number of points

That’s also why after the news broke about DVC partnering with II and giving members notice that starting 1/1/22 they would be the new exchange company, new deposits kept coming in with RCI long after 1/1/22. DVC had miscalculated how many points members would use in RCI and had to continue to make deposits to honor their agreement.

They did prime the pump with 1BRs at SSR in Interval when they switched back over a few years ago, but then the rate of flow went very slowly. My read is different--I suspect they were able to produce inventory for RCI on an on-demand basis as deposited points were confirmed into an exchange. That to me seems to be the easiest explanation for why inventory kept dribbing out into the 2-year window.

HGVC still does anticipatory deposits to RCI even before club season opens. But as far as I can tell, none of the other systems deposit into either RCI or II until well into their member booking windows.

And, that 11-month BWV deposit was almost certainly someone at DVCMC screwing up a deposit and having it be taken before it could be clawed back. Almsot nothing shows up in Interval earlier than about 5 months prior to check in, and almsot everything is OKW and SSR with a smattering of AKV, BRV, and BWV, in that order.

 

[Sandisw]

Instead of all the speculation about the practice, is it possible to request the information? I imagine there has to be some type of oversight committee or checks and balances, otherwise it would be ripe for fraud, intentional or not.

Do you mean of DVCMCs books?

No…but we have a right to records of the association so if what you were looking for is considered and required to be kept as a record of the association?

Then yes…but they are under regular audits a in terms of the records for the association matching.

 

[Sandisw]

Wondering if the 20% (15% at BWV) cash rentals by Disney include breakage.
Have they conflated exchange points and lockoff premium? If I were in them, I would have, I wouldn't want to attract attention too much on how unfair the lockoff premium is. Just hide the real number behind exchanges.
The reason I suspect the lockoff premium has a disproportionate effect on breakage is that all resorts including BCV or BWV, hit the maximum budget contribution to dues due to breakage. Have you ever seen a BCV room available at 60 days, except a spare few nights due to a last minute cancellation? It's the lockoff premium that generates so much extra revenue, most of which goes into DVC pockets.

All resorts hit breakage threshold. And, DVC gets to anticipate breakage so they can pull rooms more than 60 days out.

 

[zavandor]

All resorts hit breakage threshold. And, DVC gets to anticipate breakage so they can pull rooms more than 60 days out.

Given that any room that is available at 7 months at BCV is snapped in seconds, do you think many rooms go into breakage?
I bet 99% of breakage income at BCV comes from the lockoff premium.

 

[Sandisw]

Given that any room that is available at 7 months at BCV is snapped in seconds, do you think many rooms go into breakage?
I bet 99% of breakage income at BCV comes from the lockoff premium.

No idea…just pointing out that all resorts hit it and we now know a lot of inventory leaves for exchanges