2011 Point Charts - Any guesses when??

[tjkraz]

Rebalancing them again in such a way is sure to kill future sales in an already leery buyer's market. As of now, DVC is stuck with 4 resorts that haven't sold to expectation: BLT (supposed to be sold out within a year, now going on year 2), SSR (sold amazingly well for years, now stalled out with THV additions), AKV, GCV (another supposed to sell quickly but not).

Of course, I'm still waiting for DVC execs to realize we're in the middle of a recession with taxpayers facing down the possibility of more lost jobs and increased taxes. I think they consume too much pixie dust.

Oh, I think you're reading far too much into it.

A lot of what you describe is just DVC Guide (salesperson) hype. There's a reason that DVC only built 50 villas at the Grand Californian. Even in a good economy, the Bay Lake Tower was never going to sell out in 6-12 months, or whatever crazy figures were floated. If that was the case, DVC would have increased the price sooner and probably had a higher starting price to begin with.

I'm sure they were forecasting record highs in profitability for the 2009 fiscal year before the economy went down the tubes. But there are still millions and millions of US residents gainfully employed. DVC certainly isn't ready to close up shop.

In the 13-14 months since the stock market tanked they've sold about 30,000 contracts. The number of contracts they sold in FY 2009 (which ran Oct '08 to Sep '09 and included BLT and VGC startups) eclipsed the prior FY by about 10%.

Prices have also been a bit higher for the most part. Throughout most of 2008 the prevailing price was $104 less discounts of $8-10 per point. In 2009 the base price was $112 with discounts ranging from $5 per point (including initial BLT and VGC sales) up to $15+.

Now BLT is up to $120 per point with a discount of just $8 off. Good economy or bad...reallocation or not...make no mistake--people are still buying.

DVC won't open a new resort until 2011 (Hawaii) so they are in no great rush to sell what is available now. They'll spend the next 12-18 months balancing available inventory with pricing to maximize profitability. Selling less product at a higher price is typically more desirable than the opposite.

 

[hakepb]

Wouldn't it be nice if DVC just sent out e-mails every so often telling us "Thanks for being a great member. Things do change every once in a while and this is to inform you about..... This change goes into effect on XX/XX/XX. "

Disney, the company that used to offer courses to everyone else in the world in How to Treat Your Customer.

Then they sold that space to the lowest bidder, me (SSR owner) $ trumps service anyday

Maybe it won't be TOOOO long now...they already published points for the 2011 cruises. THAT used to be in a lag beyond when booking opened for the ships. Back in 2007 they opened booking for the cruises and there were no point charts yet. So at least when booking opened for the Magic & Wonder in Sept. & again this week for the Dream people were able to make an informed decision about booking with points.

As far as another reallocation - count me in as pissed off if they mess with the charts again so soon. Rather than be forced to buy more points we will cut trips. I will not play their little game.

2011 cruise charts exist because you can book a cruise 2 years out. Looking at a few of their recent announcements (reallocation, valet, point charts..) I'm starting to think DVC management has been to one too many JIT (Just In Time) seminars..

 

[bookwormde]

"And really, that's as it should be. We don't have enough information as owners to know why another reallocation might be necessary. We can speculate, but we don't have real knowledge. "

None of these decision are that complicated, and it would not be that hard to email out the information, so the only conclusion I can draw is that if they let us know all the reasons, some would not meet the "best interests of the majority of the menbers" legal standard.

I agree they wait till the last minute and do not widely disribute the information to limit the "uproar"

bookwormde

 

[dianeschlicht]

Wouldn't it be nice if DVC just sent out e-mails every so often telling us "Thanks for being a great member. Things do change every once in a while and this is to inform you about..... This change goes into effect on XX/XX/XX. "

Disney, the company that used to offer courses to everyone else in the world in How to Treat Your Customer.

I agree, and in the past, that's the way DVC handled all of the "changes". It helps to keep people calmer about the effects doing it that way too. I think we both know when these "changes" in attitude toward members started happening, and I just hope we get some new leadership soon.

 

[Anal Annie]

Well, for starters, the points used for cruises have nothing to do with reallocation of DVC resort points. That is an exchange, and those are always renegotiated annually, so it's not the same thing at all.

As for your last paragraph....that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. I figure the reallocation is done for a reason that probably in the long run benefits the members as a whole. In other words...reallocation evens out the seasonal demand for certain unit sizes....thus making the units more fully utilized. If there were units sitting empty on weekends because people percieved them as being too many points, then lowering that size unit for the weekend makes perfect sense.

I realize they're 2 diff. areas but my first point was simply that they at least DID the cruise charts timely so MAYBE they'll do the OTHERS timely. It was just a thought that if they did one why not the other.

Second, I will NOT be cutting my nose off my face I'll be saving my money. If they reallocate the charts & price me out of being able to go 3 times a year in a studio I will not buy more points just to keep going 3 times a year NOR will I have enough points for a 1 bedroom either. I will simply only go 2 times a year and they can miss out on the money we'd have spent while we were there on that 3rd trip. That's not cutting MY nose off. That is just not playing their game any more. I am not going to let them FORCE me into purchasing more points. While I would LOVE to have more I want them on my own terms. Another reallocation would also be the catalyst that would stop me from recommending DVC to anyone as a good purchase. Rather I would start giving WARNINGS to anyone who asked me about it. "Buy it at your own risk!"

Your comments caught me on a bad day and in a pissy mood. I am a little fed up with Disney in general right now and another point reallocation would just be the icing on the cake. I just started looking into planning a trip to Disneyland Paris in 2011 and I am disgused with Disney at the moment. They no longer include park tix with the DLP ressies (which they apparently USED TO DO, at least thru 2007) and now they REQUIRE that you purchase a "length of stay" pass if you stay onsite. But it does not matter if you book on points or with cash they still REQUIRE that you purchase this length of stay pass. I am looking at spending about 4 n, 3 1/2 days in Paris (arriving morning to mid-day on Sat & leaving EARLY, EARLY on Wed to go to Barcelona so I'd only be there 1/2 day Sat + Sun-Tues) but they want me to purchase a 5 day pass because it's 4 nights. That's absurd - we'd be gone on Wed before the parks even open. Meanwhile, I REALLY only want a 2 day pass as I want to sightsee in Paris for a day. So do you want me to rant? I'll rant. Why do they force people to buy a 5 day pass in order to 2 spend days at the parks? I think that's just wrong. They also used to include breakfast with the ressies which they no longer do so there really isn't much incentive to stay onsite which I find just plain sad. I was really looking forward to doing this as I've read that the DLP parks are amazing and now I may just scrap the whole Paris plan and go to Barcelona for 3 days pre-cruise. They have really sucked the air out of my sails.

 

[Anal Annie]

Wouldn't it be nice if DVC just sent out e-mails every so often telling us "Thanks for being a great member. Things do change every once in a while and this is to inform you about..... This change goes into effect on XX/XX/XX. "

Disney, the company that used to offer courses to everyone else in the world in How to Treat Your Customer.

This doesn't work for me because I don't GET any of their emails AT ALL. NEVER. EVER. I have contacted them NUMEROUS times and they can't figure it out and they have given up trying to figure it out. They say my settings are set up correctly so "Oh Well".

 

[tjkraz]

Second, I will NOT be cutting my nose off my face I'll be saving my money. If they reallocate the charts & price me out of being able to go 3 times a year in a studio I will not buy more points just to keep going 3 times a year NOR will I have enough points for a 1 bedroom either. I will simply only go 2 times a year and they can miss out on the money we'd have spent while we were there on that 3rd trip. That's not cutting MY nose off. That is just not playing their game any more. I am not going to let them FORCE me into purchasing more points. While I would LOVE to have more I want them on my own terms.

The foundation of DVC is near 100% occupancy year-round. So DVC really does have an obligation to members to create a system which encourages such occupancy. Even if you lose a night or a trip, someone will be staying in that guest room.

Another reallocation would also be the catalyst that would stop me from recommending DVC to anyone as a good purchase. Rather I would start giving WARNINGS to anyone who asked me about it. "Buy it at your own risk!"

Just curious but would you feel the same way if you benefited from a second reallocation? For every time period where prices are increased, something must decrease. If they do adjust the seasons, tens-of-thousands of members will find their points now go further than they have in the past.

They no longer include park tix with the DLP ressies (which they apparently USED TO DO, at least thru 2007) and now they REQUIRE that you purchase a "length of stay" pass if you stay onsite. But it does not matter if you book on points or with cash they still REQUIRE that you purchase this length of stay pass. I am looking at spending about 4 n, 3 1/2 days in Paris (arriving morning to mid-day on Sat & leaving EARLY, EARLY on Wed to go to Barcelona so I'd only be there 1/2 day Sat + Sun-Tues) but they want me to purchase a 5 day pass because it's 4 nights. That's absurd - we'd be gone on Wed before the parks even open. Meanwhile, I REALLY only want a 2 day pass as I want to sightsee in Paris for a day. So do you want me to rant? I'll rant. Why do they force people to buy a 5 day pass in order to 2 spend days at the parks? I think that's just wrong. They also used to include breakfast with the ressies which they no longer do so there really isn't much incentive to stay onsite which I find just plain sad.

For what it's worth, when DVC points reservations included park tickets the nightly costs were about twice what they are today.

In 2007 a Value Season room at the Sequoia Lodge ran 43 points per weeknight. Today that room is 22 points per night. So members were definitely paying for those tickets one way or another.

I think the change made complete sense. A 3-night stay costs 63 points more under the old system vs. current pricing. Valuing points at roughly $10 each, that's $630 for park tickets. A family of 4 might break even (3-day passes currently run $150-170 each) but parties of 1-3 individuals were forced to pay exorbitant rates for their tickets.

MouseSavers claims that all hotel stays include free continental breakfast.

 

[Anal Annie]

Tkraz -

I didn't benefit from the last reallocation nor do I anticipate we would benefit by the next one either - ESPECIALLY if they increase the cost for a studio which is what we use and what it sounds like they will do.

Perhaps the DLP points were higher back then but I still don't think I should be FORCED to pay for park hoppers for more days than what I will use. If I am only there for 3 1/2 days then I DON'T NEED a 5 day pass and I shouldn't HAVE to pay for 5 days!!! JMHO on that one. If I am paying to stay there as a guest (regardless of HOW I am paying) I should be treated AS A GUEST and let me purchase the type of ticket that I want / need. Don't FORCE me to pay for more days than I can use. WHY should I pay for a Wed tix when I'm checking out at the crack of dawn and leaving? I'm just saying that is absurd to FORCE on someone.

I just spoke to DVC MS around 9:30 this morning to confirm the breakfast thing. I was told it is not included any more. So Mousesavers is out-of-date. (GASP!!) Apparently more changes that are only in the fine print.

 

[Chuck S]

Tkraz -

I didn't benefit from the last reallocation nor do I anticipate we would benefit by the next one either - ESPECIALLY if they increase the cost for a studio which is what we use and what it sounds like they will do.

Perhaps the DLP points were higher back then but I still don't think I should be FORCED to pay for park hoppers for more days than what I will use. If I am only there for 3 1/2 days then I DON'T NEED a 5 day pass and I shouldn't HAVE to pay for 5 days!!! JMHO on that one. If I am paying to stay there as a guest (regardless of HOW I am paying) I should be treated AS A GUEST and let me purchase the type of ticket that I want / need. Don't FORCE me to pay for more days than I can use. WHY should I pay for a Wed tix when I'm checking out at the crack of dawn and leaving? I'm just saying that is absurd to FORCE on someone.

I just spoke to DVC MS around 9:30 this morning to confirm the breakfast thing. I was told it is not included any more. So Mousesavers is out-of-date. (GASP!!) Apparently more changes that are only in the fine print.

Unfortunately, this is likely not something DVC has control over. Remember that DLP is actually not "owned" fully by Disney, but is licensed, like Tokyo Disney, to an investment group. That investment group sets the rules when negotiating point stays at their cash resorts.

Given the choice, I'd be inclined to see if an RCI trade to a nearby Paris resort was available, and trade to that if possible.

 

[Anal Annie]

Unfortunately, this is likely not something DVC has control over. Remember that DLP is actually not "owned" fully by Disney, but is licensed, like Tokyo Disney, to an investment group. That investment group sets the rules when negotiating point stays at their cash resorts.

Given the choice, I'd be inclined to see if an RCI trade to a nearby Paris resort was available, and trade to that if possible.

Nice thought but no dice!! RCI only has 1 property in all of France and it's located near Marseille, not Paris and it's not a short stay property. There's also nothing available in Barcelona. I think there is 1 short-stay property in Spain, but in some Meditteranean beach resort area, nowhere near Barcelona.

 

[tgj]

I think that if they do another reallocation, it will be to further bring weekends and weekdays closer together....

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I agree, and in the past, that's the way DVC handled all of the "changes". It helps to keep people calmer about the effects doing it that way too.

Well that type of management philosophy won't fly with DVC members. It didn't work with the OKW extension fiasco. DVC better hope they have all their t's crossed this next go round. The word is out and the next point re-allocation will be heavily scrutinized.

 

[nuts]

I think they are taking into consideration that the world will come to an end in 2012. Oh, wait, wrong forum...

 

[5forDiz]

I think they are taking into consideration that the world will come to an end in 2012. Oh, wait, wrong forum...

OMG!! Good one! I totally was not expecting to read what you wrote here!

Well until we know for sure if it's another reallocation & if so that it actually works for our family's trips in a positive way I welcome some much needed comic relief from worrying.

 

[Starr W.]

I think that if they do another reallocation, it will be to further bring weekends and weekdays closer together....

Personally I think they are going to do something with early December and perhaps expand Premier season for the Spring beyond the 2 weeks of Easter.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Personally I think they are going to do something with early December and perhaps expand Premier season for the Spring beyond the 2 weeks of Easter.

I suspect at least part of that might be true, but if they do that, where will they bring the points down? Since part of the reallocation is to increase use of specific room types in specific seasons, I can see them evening out all the seasons a bit.

As I said earlier, I'm not convinced they will do a LOT with early December. The reason for that is that other than DVC, the rest of the resorts are far from packed that time of year, and the parks are quiet. I can see them adjusting different unit sizes and weekends during adventure season, but I suspect early Dec. will still be adventure season.

 

[bwvBound]

Nice thought but no dice!! RCI only has 1 property in all of France and it's located near Marseille, not Paris and it's not a short stay property.

Sorry, not true. RCI has 156 affiliated properties in France with 6 in the "Paris area." That DVC only likes 1 of these is a different story.

The six listed in the RCI directory as "Paris area" include:

• LE ROI DU LAC-EURODISNEY 1 WEEK*(#8105)
  LOGNES / MARNE LA VALLEE,* **77185
  France
• PARK & SUITES PARIS BIBLIOTHEQUE*(#8656)
  75013 PARIS,* **
  France
• Paxton Residence Hotel Spa*(#A132)
  Ferrieres En Brie,* **77164
  France
• Royal Regency*(#3068)
  Vincennes,* **94300
  France
• SUITEHOTEL PARIS PORTE DE MONTREUIL*(#6206)
  PARIS,* **75020
  France
• SUITEHOTEL PORTE DE LA CHAPELLE*(#8465)
  75018 PARIS,* **75018
  France

We've only visited Disney Paris once (filling time waiting to be allowed to return state-side after 9/11/01) ... but it was a quick and easy day-trip from our hotel in central Paris. We bought both park entrance and roundtrip rail tickets directly from the metro station.

 

[Anal Annie]

Sorry, not true. RCI has 156 affiliated properties in France with 6 in the "Paris area." That DVC only likes 1 of these is a different story.

The six listed in the RCI directory as "Paris area" include:

• LE ROI DU LAC-EURODISNEY 1 WEEK*(#8105)
  LOGNES / MARNE LA VALLEE,* **77185
  France
• PARK & SUITES PARIS BIBLIOTHEQUE*(#8656)
  75013 PARIS,* **
  France
• Paxton Residence Hotel Spa*(#A132)
  Ferrieres En Brie,* **77164
  France
• Royal Regency*(#3068)
  Vincennes,* **94300
  France
• SUITEHOTEL PARIS PORTE DE MONTREUIL*(#6206)
  PARIS,* **75020
  France
• SUITEHOTEL PORTE DE LA CHAPELLE*(#8465)
  75018 PARIS,* **75018
  France

We've only visited Disney Paris once (filling time waiting to be allowed to return state-side after 9/11/01) ... but it was a quick and easy day-trip from our hotel in central Paris. We bought both park entrance and roundtrip rail tickets directly from the metro station.

But if I search RCI hotels in France thru the DVC site for hotel options in Paris there are none offered - so what good is your RCI list if DVC doesn't recognize them? The fact that they exist doesn't help me at all if they're not offered thru DVC. That doesn't do me any good. (I also need a "short stay" property as I only want 3 or 4 nights which narrows things even further...)

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Regardless, if there is another reallocation for 2011 I would suspect the reason is that they couldn't reallocate to the desired levels in just one year.

I would tend to agree with this. They haven't even been able to see full extent of changes from the last reallocation yet. To adjust back down without data from the whole year doesn't seem prudent IMO. As others have stated, they may be considering changing the season for some dates.

It may balance the system as a whole though I never could figure out how it balanced the SSR chart and MS couldn't explain it either... every calculation showed MORE points allocated to the resort after the reallocation rather than a balancing.

I did a spreadsheet which calculated the difference and the resulting differences were negligible. The difference in total points available from 2008, which was a leap year, and 2009 (when the point charts were identical) was in the same range as the difference between 2009 & 2010, after reallocation.

 

[bwvBound]

But if I search RCI hotels in France thru the DVC site for hotel options in Paris there are none offered - so what good is your RCI list if DVC doesn't recognize them? The fact that they exist doesn't help me at all if they're not offered thru DVC. That doesn't do me any good. (I also need a "short stay" property as I only want 3 or 4 nights which narrows things even further...)

Simply correcting your statement. The inventory limitation is a DVC-thing not an RCI-thing. Better to say, "DVC offers only 1 property in all of France and it's located near Marseille, not Paris and it's not a short stay property."

Just playing your game here ...