2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[Schachteles]

We have used the dining plan in the past because we enjoyed being able to:
1. Fully pay for our trip and have no budget surprises.
2. Eat interesting or exotic appetizers as we are not sweets people.
3. Get a good value. We calculated we saved about $10 per day/per person with the plan.

We will no longer be using the plan because:
1. We will no longer be able to pre-pay for the trip. We will still have to whip out a credit card or cash to tip our wait staff. This cost increase alone got rid of the financial benefit as well as the convenience measure.

2. We lost our appetizers. Since our son can't have processed sugar and the rest of us really don't like dessert, this is a huge hit to our personal enjoyment of the program.


The biggest loser in this equation is Disney. Due to the dining plan we have stayed on location usually in a moderate or deluxe, not had a rental car, and never left the property. Since we are now going to rent a car to allow us to eat dinner off property we will also be staying at the Value Resorts because we will have free parking at the parks, can avoid the horrible busses, and leave property to eat at reasonably priced locations. We had avoided the value resorts because they required taking those horrible busses everywhere, but now we will save the money and take a car. Also, in the past we had park hoppers so that we could head over to Epcot to eat our dinner. We will no longer be adding that cost to our tickets.

In all, we will pay 1/2 of what we used to for a room, we will be eating far fewer meals on property, and we won't be upgrading our Magic Your Way tickets. I figure we will be paying Disney 2,140 dollars less for our family vacations and I get to avoid those tardy, stand in the rain/sun/heat Busses. I will have to rent a car and we will have to pay for meals out side the parks, but I really don't think we will loose that much time given how long those darn busses took to transport us around the parks. I always hated giving up an hour of transportation time to and from the restaurants that gave us the best "bang for our buck" with the dining plan.

With the extra savings, we may head over the the new Harry Potter additions at Universal. I have never been there before, but Disney's short sighted planning, has given me both the means (more money in my pocket and a rental car for transportation) and the motive (I will admit I am really honked off about the appetizers. If they only want to allow two allow two courses, then they should have made it an appetizer/dessert option.)

I still love Disney, and we will go back, but I think our family will be changing our traveling habits. This year we made two trips to Disney, once in February and once in September. I cannot see our family doing that again with the current pricing/program offerings. This isn't a huge deal, but for me it has become the straw that broke the camel's back.

--Eeyore's Wife

Very interesting. I've followed this whole thread, and all of the other relat4ed ones, and still hear that people are saying that they are going to leave Disney property to eat, but I wonder when it actually comes time to implement this, will it actually happen? We never leave property to eat as it's a big hassle - we always have our own car, or rent one, so it means finding our car, loading the kids in, leaving property, traffic nightmares around 4 and I-Drive, getting to a restaurant, eating, loading back in, drive back to Disney, find another parking spot, etc. You get the picture. This is a lot of inconvenience with small children - heck, we did this once before the kids came with just hubby and I, and we didn't care for it.

I know that some people are ticked at Disney for making these changes, but I honestly wonder how many people are actually going to leave property just because they aren't getting an appetizer anymore or have to pay a tip? I can't imagine people are going to leave for both lunch and dinner, but even just dinner is inconvenience enough for us.

It's really all very interesting to me as I think people are fired up now, but when it comes to implementing these off-site plans in the sweltering heat, with kids in tow, I think it's going to be another whole ballgame.

Just my humble opinion, Tiger

We just got back from Disney on Monday night and were there for 9 days with the dining plan. We normally stay at our Hilton timeshare, but this time we decided to stay at POR and try out the dining plan. With the changes we will NOT even stay on property again. Taking away the tips is a big chunk of change, at some meals that was $20+ right there. I do think that an 18% tip is high especially since really the service was down, I think because the servers knew they were getting that amount regardless. And taking away that tip is going really hurt the servers because now they are going to likely get stiffed by people or get much less then 18% and that will effect the quality again.

And there was just far too much food, I had 19 snack credits left to burn on the last day, we will be eating Mickey crackers, gummy treats, jelly beans for months!

Yeah you might not leave to go get lunch and come back but I can say they will lose $$ because they aren't going to have people flooding into the sit down restaurants, they will be back eating at counter services. That is what our family will do and we will be content and we will just throw in a sit down meal every other day or so.

And like the PP said, by not staying on property we can have a car and not be tied down to just Disney...don't get me wrong that is why we go to Florida, but I sure missed having a car and dealing with the busses.

 

[Simba22]

OK so can someone break this down by how much the DDP is going to cost per day For 2007 it was $38.99 per person. Now that they have cut out the appetizer and the gratuity, I am asssuming the price is going to decrease...but can someone say for sure? I didn't see it listed on the website

 

[Schachteles]

OK so can someone break this down by how much the DDP is going to cost per day For 2007 it was $38.99 per person. Now that they have cut out the appetizer and the gratuity, I am asssuming the price is going to decrease...but can someone say for sure? I didn't see it listed on the website

Goes down by a buck from what I was told!!

 

[Eeyore's Wife]

We have been coming to Disney World since the 70's and over the years we have done almost every permutation imaginable. We have found that heading to our own car and driving just off property takes less time than manuvering on internal Disney transportation to many locations, especially those at resorts.

For example, we ate at Spoodles one evening after we were at the Animal Kingdom. We took the bus from the Animal Kingdom to the Boardwalk, via a very convoluted route. That 40 minute jaunt, after a 20 minute wait for the bus, was easy compared with getting back to our hotel. We ended up taking a boat to MGM so that we could then walk to wait for a bus to carry us back to our hotel. The 65 minutes in transit meant that we had spent 105 minutes of transportation time to eat at Spoodles.

In addition, when we left the parks after the evening fireworks we waited for over an hour to get busses back to our hotel. I was exhausted, the kids were exhausted, and we stood there in the still blazing heat, for the exaulted honor of riding a bus back to our hotel.

Before the food thing, we had been thinking about renting a car, but the food issue pushes it over the edge for us. In addition, we may just send out my husband for take out food. He can drop me off with the kids and I can oversee nightime baths, or a swim in the pool, or any of our other evening activities and he can fetch us carry out, as well as drop off at a grocery store and pay semi-reaonsable rates for things like milk, fruit, and such.

When I tally up our total transportation times including getting to the parks, back from the parks, and inter-park transportation to get to restaurants, I think we will end up saving both time and money with a rental car and eating a few meals off property.

We will eat a meal off property on the way to Disney, which we didn't do before because we took the Magical Express. We will also eat off property on our last day as we head to the Airport again. Even if we just counter service, and dont' go off property, I think it will be worth it for our family.

I don't know if others would do the same, but for the way we hit the parks, I think this would work best for us.

--Eeyore's Wife

 

[pilferk]

OK so can someone break this down by how much the DDP is going to cost per day For 2007 it was $38.99 per person. Now that they have cut out the appetizer and the gratuity, I am asssuming the price is going to decrease...but can someone say for sure? I didn't see it listed on the website

Adults: 37.99 per night
Kids: 9.99 per night

 

[Tiger926]

I guess I'm confused as to why some people don't rent cars while staying on-site? Disney's transporation is problematic at times; therefore for us, we love having our own vehicle (whether it's our own or rental). We only stay on-site as we are DVC members, and always rent a car as we find it to be much more convenient than Disney transporation (as mentioned above), plus, we have had emergencies to deal with, and so having our own transportation is invaluable to us.

I guess factoring this into the equation doesn't make sense to me, as no one is stopping anyone from renting a car while on property. Disney provides transporation, but no one says that you have to use it. When you add in the expense of a rental car for the above posters, it is surely going to cost more than paying for appetizer and tips out of your pocket, isn't it? Perhaps it's a matter of principle, and that is fine, but that is another whole conversation.

Tiger

 

[Simba22]

Goes down by a buck from what I was told!!

OK wow I know everyone is doing the same thing, but I'm really wondering if this would even be worth it anymore...

 

[DizzDoll]

The price for the DDP has been reduced by $1.00, correct?

Anyway, we've had the free ddp for the past 2 years and enjoyed it somewhat, and next year when we go we're going to pay oop (should say I"M going to pay oop since it would behoove the kids to kick in a buck or two!! ). The kids would prefer a CS and then hit the rides/shows, or, have dinner early at the hotel and THEN hit the parks...you get the picture. And I'm speaking for myself and my family and ONLY us as everyone knows their own likes and dislikes, but with the CS options offering more veggies and/or vegetarian meals they've become a healthier option. At least I think. We also don't like hopping around for dinner at one park to hit the EMH at another. Waaaaay too much time wasted doing that . Another thing that bugs the kids is the amount of time spent in the various TS restaurants waiting for a table, a waitperson to come over for a drink order, waiting to place an order, eating, you guys know what I'm whining about . So what's been dropped from the meal plan is a strong consideration for those who plan to use it, but there are other options available, too, and everyone can choose what works best for them. That's what makes this country of ours so great!!!! Personally, I'd never give up Disney but I can thoroughly understand the DDP users being upset. Slainte!!

 

[Eeyore's Wife]

Nothing stopped us from renting a car previously, but we have to stick to a budget to make the vacation an option for our family. We go a small savings under the old dining plan, based on how our family likes to dine. So, we paid for the Dining Plan and could not fit a car rental into the budget.

With the changes in the dining plan it no longer offers any savings, in fact, I believe we would loose money on the plan. For future trips, we will get a car, and eat several meals off property. Because we will now feel free to stay at a budget hotel, since we are not trying to avoid the bus transportation they have to everything, we free up even more funds.

So, for us this has been a total bottom line issue combined with a convenience issue. I really enjoyed having everything done through Disney, and pre-paid, but the changes have made that convenience cost too high for me to justify. So, we will now have a separate reservation with a car company and purchase more of our meals off property. Since the only time we park hopped related to getting to favorite restaurants, we will save $45 per person for not having this perk. This savings will pay for two character meal breakfasts per person.

I hope that explains the thought process for the change.

--Eeyore's Wife

 

[pilferk]

OK wow I know everyone is doing the same thing, but I'm really wondering if this would even be worth it anymore...

There's bunches of breakdowns, etc, scattered throughout these threads. The general consensus is that, while it's not the slam dunk deal it was for 07, that the '08 plan CAN still provide value to SOME people. It works well, still, for our family and I've figured we'll save between 15% and 25% on any given day. Our total savings for the trip is right around 20%...enough for me to use it, certainly.

The "old" plan would have saved us about 33%, or between 25% and 35% each day.

Many don't like the changes. There are certainly ways, now, to eat (on property and off) for less, if you're looking to do that. Of course..there always were...but now the savings is "enough" less that it makes contemplating those ways, less appealing than using the '07 DDP, as more "realistic" possibilities.

The thing is: Disney won't care. For every guest going off property, 2 more will line up to take their room at most times of year. For every guest NOT making an ADR, 2 more will compete for their spot. The TS restaurants were SO overwhelmed by demand, most ressies were booked weeks (if not months, in more popular spots) in advance. The "thinning of the herd" might actually be intentional on some level...less guests complaining about not being able to USE their DDP credits, especially during busy times of year. I don't know.

What I DO know is this: Figuring out if the DDP is right for you is no longer a "slam dunk", one-size fits all, no-brainer type decision. It now is going to require some "work". Look at the menus, figure out your food budget/expenditure and then look at what the DDP is going to cost you. If it saves you money...go for it. If not....don't. Everyone should do what's right for their family. Don't worry about Disney...and what that decision is doing for them (that they've made or that you're going to make). Because I pretty much gaurentee you that, if you're thinking of it as an effect, they've thought of it, run it through 6 different business models, 4 different customer opinion/feedback surveys, 8 different focus groups and come to the conclusion that it still works out better for them, either at the bottom line (probably), at the guest satisfaction line (maybe) or both.

Ultimately, you do what you think is best for your family....it's your vacation and your $$.

 

[Tiger926]

There's bunches of breakdowns, etc, scattered throughout these threads. The general consensus is that, while it's not the slam dunk deal it was for 07, that the '08 plan CAN still provide value to SOME people. It works well, still, for our family and I've figured we'll save between 15% and 25% on any given day. Our total savings for the trip is right around 20%...enough for me to use it, certainly.

The "old" plan would have saved us about 33%, or between 25% and 35% each day.

Many don't like the changes. There are certainly ways, now, to eat (on property and off) for less, if you're looking to do that. Of course..there always were...but now the savings is "enough" less that it makes contemplating those ways, less appealing than using the '07 DDP, as more "realistic" possibilities.

The thing is: Disney won't care. For every guest going off property, 2 more will line up to take their room at most times of year. For every guest NOT making an ADR, 2 more will compete for their spot. The TS restaurants were SO overwhelmed by demand, most ressies were booked weeks (if not months, in more popular spots) in advance. The "thinning of the herd" might actually be intentional on some level...less guests complaining about not being able to USE their DDP credits, especially during busy times of year. I don't know.

What I DO know is this: Figuring out if the DDP is right for you is no longer a "slam dunk", one-size fits all, no-brainer type decision. It now is going to require some "work". Look at the menus, figure out your food budget/expenditure and then look at what the DDP is going to cost you. If it saves you money...go for it. If not....don't. Everyone should do what's right for their family. Don't worry about Disney...and what that decision is doing for them (that they've made or that you're going to make). Because I pretty much gaurentee you that, if you're thinking of it as an effect, they've thought of it, run it through 6 different business models, 4 different customer opinion/feedback surveys, 8 different focus groups and come to the conclusion that it still works out better for them, either at the bottom line (probably), at the guest satisfaction line (maybe) or both.

Ultimately, you do what you think is best for your family....it's your vacation and your $$.

Very well said! Tiger

 

[firechick139]

I do admit, I didn't read all the previous posts (57 pages is alot to read). I have emailed Disney, suggesting that they make it an appetizer OR dessert option. How many others have? Success is in the masses! If they get enough emails, maybe they will listen. I didn't go into the tips or anything, I just focused on one thing.

 

[pilferk]

With the changes in the dining plan it no longer offers any savings, in fact, I believe we would loose money on the plan.

OK, I'll admit it. I'm a data geek. A big, honking, vacation planning data geek.

Do you have, by any chance, a breakdown of the scenario you went through where you saw you were losing money? I know scenarios can be created (we don't eat dessert, we only drink water, and we only eat non-character TS breakfasts)..but they're like an urban legend: everyone talks about them but I've never seen one posted. I'd be interested (because, as I said, I'm a data geek) in seeing a "real life" example of a money losing use of the DDP.

 

[Simba22]

I do admit, I didn't read all the previous posts (57 pages is alot to read). I have emailed Disney, suggesting that they make it an appetizer OR dessert option. How many others have? Success is in the masses! If they get enough emails, maybe they will listen. I didn't go into the tips or anything, I just focused on one thing.

I didn't read all 57 pages either but I did see somewhere that someone else suggested giving guests a choice...with your TS you can either get an appetizer or a dessert. I varely rarely order an appetizer, but 90% of the time I want dessert. My brother on the other hand would rather have the appetizer. So I think, to give people that choice (and let it vary with each meal, we shouldn't have to decide up front when purchasing the DDP option whether we are going to want appetizers or desserts with all of our meals) would make it more worth it to some people.

At the same time, the removal of the gratuity is what is getting to most people, myself included. The tip alone on some TS meals is $20+ and not having to come OOP for that was a great help! I HATE carrying cash because it's completely unreplaceable. And if my whole meal was paid for on the DDP, I can't put just a tip on my credit/debit card. So now they are essentially forcing me to either a) carry cash, b) buy something NOT covered on the DDP so that I am able to use my card to leave the tip, or c) not tip at all. Of course I wouldn't want to do option c, especially if the service we have is good (which it was when we were there 2 weeks ago), and obviously option b is just making things more difficult then they have to be. But now I'm stuck with option a. If someone steals my wallet, is Disney going to replace the $180 worth of tip money in there? I think not.

I think most people are going to just go back to old way of doing things, before we were all spoiled by the DDP, and just pay OOP at the time of our meals. We know we can do it, because we did it before, but even I will admit after using the DDP only once that it spoiled me rotten! It was just so convenient and now it just isn't as useful as it was.

 

[asmit4]

OK, I'll admit it. I'm a data geek. A big, honking, vacation planning data geek.

Do you have, by any chance, a breakdown of the scenario you went through where you saw you were losing money? I know scenarios can be created (we don't eat dessert, we only drink water, and we only eat non-character TS breakfasts)..but they're like an urban legend: everyone talks about them but I've never seen one posted. I'd be interested (because, as I said, I'm a data geek) in seeing a "real life" example of a money losing use of the DDP.

I did, is there a way to find old posts you made? I did a comparison of costs for our 3 night trip we just took. It was for 3 adults. We used all our credits. I found that we would save roughly $14 using the 2008DDP. While in 2007, we saved almost $200.

I came to the conclusion that while the DDP is convenient, it's not a cost savings for us in 2008. For instance- at Cosmic Rays, my mom and I got the 13.99 ribs and chicken combo. Had we gotten just a cheeseburger, we would have spent I think 7.99. Right there, we would have lost ALL our savings for the 2008 DDP. That's our $14 bucks right there.

In order for us to get to a modest 10% savings, we would have to really WORK to maximize the DDP. Ordering the highest priced items on each menu, no snacks under 3.00, going to the highest priced 1TS credit options- even then, it would be tough.

 

[Eeyore's Wife]

I would be happy to provide the senario under which I would be losing money using the dining plan. I choose a day from my most recent trip to Disney, September 2007.

While the dining plan was free for this particular trip, I will calculate the total costs for the day assuming the Free Old Plan, Old Plan, New Plan, and Out of Pocket.

These meal choices are not theoretical, but represent how I actually ate while using the plan.

For Breakfast I used my snack credit and got a Smoothie, which was priced at $3.99. As such it was free under all dining plans and with tax would have cost me $4.25

Lunch was at the Flame Tree. I had the Salad, Frozen Lemonade, and water. I don't like straight high fructose corn syrup, caffine, nor artificial sweeteners, so I almost always order water. This meal was included, without any additional costs under all meal plans, and would have come, with tax, to $8.50. Looking back, I really didn't like the frozen lemonade and I threw most of it away. I would not buy the lemonade in the future, but would get some cole slaw. However, since I wanted to run the numbers on actual purchases, I will leave the lemonade in the equation.

Dinner found me at Le Cellier. I had the Duck Appetizer, Grilled Salmon, the free bread on the table, and water. Under the Old Meal plan, this was included in my meal plan without additional payment. Under the new plan, I would not only have to pay out of pocket for the duck $12.99, but I would also have to pay 18% gratuity on the salmon and the duck. We have a large family, and since we are a party of 6, we have to pay the 18% unless we speak to the manager, a practice which I have never had to utelize at Disney. So, my out of pocket expense would be $19.29. If I had simply purchased the same meal, with tax and gratuity, my cost would have been $41.28.

So, with Free Dining, I had no cost for the day's meals.
With the Old Dining Plan, I would have paid $41.52 for the plan + tax.
With the New Dining Plan, I would have paid $59.75 for the plan+tax+ OOP
Completely Out of Pocket, I would have paid $54.03.

Given my eating habits, love of appetizers, and dislike of desert items, I would actually spend more money using the new dining plan than if I just had the same menu and paid out of pocket.

--Eeyore's Wife

 

[GreatLakes5]

Just a quick number comment for our particular family, where my kids are concerned one is an adult per Disney (which, if they knew him, they would be laughing too). The other two are kids.

At $9.99/day for the two kids - I can't beat that off site. I have a daughter who needs to eat "real" food lest she end up with gut problems. We can't get by on many kid meals anyway, so doing the Disney meals AND having her take full advantage of every snack - well, it's either break even or to the good for us. My other son who is a 'kid' would cost us far more to eat off site.

My "adult kid" is pre-pubescent. Needless to say, he eats continually without gaining an ounce and is also a loss leader for Disney. He even ends up making sure we use all the snack options because he'd eat mine or his dad's allotment for the day.

Where our kids our concerned, we are still coming out ahead regardless of plan year.

 

[Colleen27]

Very interesting. I've followed this whole thread, and all of the other related ones, and still hear that people are saying that they are going to leave Disney property to eat, but I wonder when it actually comes time to implement this, will it actually happen? We never leave property to eat as it's a big hassle, plus we have no desire to - we always have our own car, or rent one, so it means finding our car, loading the kids in, leaving property, traffic nightmares around 4 and I-Drive, getting to a restaurant, eating, loading back in, drive back to Disney, find another parking spot, get another bag check... etc. You get the picture. This is a lot of inconvenience with small children - heck, we did this once before the kids came with just hubby and I, and we didn't care for it.

I know that some people are ticked at Disney for making these changes, but I honestly wonder how many people are actually going to leave property? I can't imagine people are going to leave for both lunch and dinner, but even just dinner is inconvenience enough for us.

It's really all very interesting to me as I think people are fired up now, but when it comes to implementing these off-site plans in the sweltering heat, with kids in tow, I think it's going to be another whole ballgame.

I know for us, the transportation time/hassle alone will keep us on site for lodging and meals. We don't want to be bothered driving on vacation, and if the super-awesome deal a family member offered us on one of her rental properties didn't convince us, better restaurant prices sure won't! Convenience has its own value for us. And from a financial perspective, the cost of the rental car would outweigh any savings we'd see from eating off-site, assuming we stuck with comparable quality restaurants.

 

[lilyv]

Actually dining off property occasionally is no hassle at all for us. We work hard to find a great deal on a rental car. We arrive, pick up our luggage, the car, and we're off. No waiting for ME.
We make ADR's for some nights, but having a car allows us a degree of spontaneity which we love. We occasionally zip off-site to a nice restaurant- good food, great price, and no waiting for buses or crowds at the on-site restaurants.
When our vacation is over, we check in our luggage at the resort, and then hop into the rental and off we go to the airport. We do as much dining at Disney as we like, but we really enjoy having a choice! (Not to mention the little added benefit of paying 6.00 for a bottle of wine at the local grocery store rather than 25.00 on-site...)

 

[englishrose47]

I still wish they had made the new ddp either /or for appie & dessert!Like many others I prefer the appies usually only things like Tiramusu win out for dessert over things like shrimp cocktail etc!! But the new plan still works for me I enjoy not having to look at the prices ,having the meal prepaid and yes I know there's tip now I wouldn't try a lot of different restaurants that I do without it!!