2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[bicker]

I know personally speaking, that the more money I saved on food, I would spend on something else- say shotglasses!

However, Disney had to pay something for those shotglasses, so not having to do so definitely is better for them than doing so.

 

[A_NY_Outlaw]

However, Disney had to pay something for those shotglasses, so not having to do so definitely is better for them than doing so.

True, but when you think about how much a corporation like WDW pays for items- albeit shotglasses, stuffed animals, toys, clothes, etc these are all made in china, malaysia, and elsewhere overseas....the markup they charge in their gift shops FAR exceeds what they are paying to have these items produced. So I'm sure they are doing just fine...

 

[Nancyg56]

True, but when you think about how much a corporation like WDW pays for items- albeit shotglasses, stuffed animals, toys, clothes, etc these are all made in china, malaysia, and elsewhere overseas....the markup they charge in their gift shops FAR exceeds what they are paying to have these items produced. So I'm sure they are doing just fine...

We just returned home and I am not going to add up everything my family added to Disney's bottom line while we saved money on the DDP . I agree that while Disney must pay for their food, wine, clothing line and shot glasses that what I spent purchasing these items far exceeded their cost. And they are so good at their marketing I am trying to find justification for giving them some more money. Perhaps a discounted DDP will entice me back so that I can save some more money .

They are extremely successful in getting people to spend their cash happily. I told my DH what I had decided would be enough spending money and he insisted that I add more to that fund....and he was right. After I saved money on the DDP I had no issues adding a meal, adding beverages and heading into the gift shops.

 

[bicker]

So I'm sure they are doing just fine...

It's not about doing "just fine". My comfortable retirement relies on the companies I invest in doing much better than "just fine". I want them to make every last bit of profit they can, legally. Every last bit of profit possible. And I'll gladly switch my investments from companies that are doing "just fine" to ones that are doing better than "just fine", as most institutional investors do, so every public company knows they have to do their best, not "just fine".

 

[A_NY_Outlaw]

We just returned home and I am not going to add up everything my family added to Disney's bottom line while we saved money on the DDP . I agree that while Disney must pay for their food, wine, clothing line and shot glasses that what I spent purchasing these items far exceeded their cost. And they are so good at their marketing I am trying to find justification for giving them some more money. Perhaps a discounted DDP will entice me back so that I can save some more money .

They are extremely successful in getting people to spend their cash happily. I told my DH what I had decided would be enough spending money and he insisted that I add more to that fund....and he was right. After I saved money on the DDP I had no issues adding a meal, adding beverages and heading into the gift shops.

Well if it makes you feel any better, think of all the merchandise that Disney sells at their parks at any given day. How many people have you witnessed carrying bags of merchandise in each hand? I saw an awful lot, including myself.

 

[A_NY_Outlaw]

It's not about doing "just fine". My comfortable retirement relies on the companies I invest in doing much better than "just fine". I want them to make every last bit of profit they can, legally. Every last bit of profit possible. And I'll gladly switch my investments from companies that are doing "just fine" to ones that are doing better than "just fine", as most institutional investors do, so every public company knows they have to do their best, not "just fine".

Wow, didn't realize that was going to make you super upset....it was just a figure of speech.

 

[bicker]

I'm not "super upset". We're having a discussion and I'm trying to explain something to you. And saying it is a figure of speech indicates that you didn't understand what I said, so I'll try to explain it better.

Most people invest in corporations to save for their comfortable retirements. Those companies have a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions in the best interests of their owners. There isn't any reason to make a conscious decision that does nothing more than increase cost and decrease profit, no matter how slight. Such decisions are irresponsible.

Understanding this is important in understanding why offerings, such as the Dining Plan, are the way they are, which is the context of this thread.

I hope that's clearer. Please let me know if I'm still not making what I'm saying clear enough.

 

[apostolic4life]

I'm not "super upset". We're having a discussion and I'm trying to explain something to you. And saying it is a figure of speech indicates that you didn't understand what I said, so I'll try to explain it better.

Most people invest in corporations to save for their comfortable retirements. Those companies have a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions in the best interests of their owners. There isn't any reason to make a conscious decision that does nothing more than increase cost and decrease profit, no matter how slight. Such decisions are irresponsible.

Understanding this is important in understanding why offerings, such as the Dining Plan, are the way they are, which is the context of this thread.

I hope that's clearer. Please let me know if I'm still not making what I'm saying clear enough.

Sometimes people think the DDP was offered strictly to make the guests happy, but when you boil everything down the only motive is profit for the shareholders of the Disney corporation. Will the 2008 incarnation of the DDP be the excessively generous plan of the past that enticed everyone to try TS restaurants, no, but the plan will still be a bargain with modest savings to those who would have dined in TS restaurants without the plan. If WDW can keep the restaurants filled to capacity with the new DDP they will greatly increase the share price for their investors, which is (and should be) their priority.

 

[bicker]

Yup, that's it exactly. So I guess I finally did make my point clearly. Thanks!

 

[apostolic4life]

Yup, that's it exactly. So I guess I finally did make my point clearly. Thanks!

Your points are always clear and precise. Now agreeing with those points does not always come as easily.

 

[Nancyg56]

Sometimes people think the DDP was offered strictly to make the guests happy, but when you boil everything down the only motive is profit for the shareholders of the Disney corporation. Will the 2008 incarnation of the DDP be the excessively generous plan of the past that enticed everyone to try TS restaurants, no, but the plan will still be a bargain with modest savings to those who would have dined in TS restaurants without the plan. If WDW can keep the restaurants filled to capacity with the new DDP they will greatly increase the share price for their investors, which is (and should be) their priority.

This company is so good at marketing that it does seem that products are offered for the sheer pleasure of customers. I believe that the frustration people have is not that the the plan changed, I have seen through these discussions that dining plans seem to change often through the years, but that the veil surrounding Disney slipped a bit. Part of Disney's magic is how "guests" feel when they plan their vacation and how they feel once they arrive. The version of the plan we now enjoy, along with the marketing, allowed people to forget that Disney is not a Mouse but a real for profit company. The change implemented in the 2008 plan is one that is not a slam dunk Bargain, but perhaps a value to some, with the bones of the change exposed during the change.

 

[Nancyg56]

Your points are always clear and precise. Now agreeing with those points does not always come as easily.

 

[Shazzie B]

Just a point-Not every-one shares meals to 'cheat the system'. We sometimes shared CS to avoid food wastage (and so I still fitted into my clothes!) and had unclaimed credits left at the end of our stay.

 

[Markstudy]

Here's the hard part for me.

I like to tip for good service.

At Artist Point and Coaral Reef I had great wait staff but by desert time...they had too many tables and we ended up sitting for way too long.... way too long.

-2 tables of 12 came in and sat next to us at the reef. Our wait staff was already pushed to the limit.
-at Artist Point...4 tables of 4 were seated when we were half way done. Again our wait staff already had 5 tables.

I hate to blame the wait staff for the bad service that followed...it was too many tables for one person to cover and we suffered.

Management screwed our service, and the wait staff pays the price. I just didn't feel like tipping big after sitting for 40 minutes without seeing my waiter. We left Artist Point without desert, because we just didn't see any hope.

Prior to the over-crowding.... we loved our waiter. Very good job.

 

[orangemonster]

Hubby and I are going to WDW soon and toyed with the idea of the DDP.
BUT we decided it is not for us for several reasons:

1) We like the spontaneity of not having every TS meal planned out for us so far in advance. I understand the value of ADRs and we have a few made for 'can't miss restaurants'. Other times we like to decide that day what/where we want to eat. We call WDW DINE to see what TS ADVs are available at the particular park we are in at the time if we want a sit down. This works well for us as we don't always know which park we're going to end up in!

2) There are only two of us and we don't always want a TS meal every night. Sometimes we're happy with fish 'n chips by the water at Epcot! Or if we have a snack midday, we might be more in the mood for a tasty sandwich for dinner.

3) We are not always huge breakfast eaters, a cup 'o joe and a danish often do the trick! I like to buy some school bread in Norway and stash it in our in-room fridge for breakfast the next morning... yum!

4) Often times we will choose to go to an upscale restaurant, like the Brown Derby, for lunch. It is less costly and we can 'walk off' the heavy meal in the park. We are doing lunch at Le Cellier this time around!

5) We don't always spend the $80 min a day for us to eat that we'd be paying for the DDP.

6) We don't generally order both our own app, entree and dessert. Frequently we'll share the app or dessert - that along with the meal is enough for us.

7) We enjoy the DTD area and have eaten at quite a few of its great restaurants. It's nice for us to leave the option open of dining there instead of being locked into a park or resort that accepts the DDP.

That being said, the DDP sure can be a great deal for those of you who use it and enjoy it. I think Disney restaurants offer a great variety and hubby and I really enjoy exploring the different cuisines available! We've never gone hungry!

I think you could throw a PBJ sandwich at me and I'd still be psyched to be at DISNEY!

 

[poteat_3177]

what age do this plan start charging for adult meals?

my step son is now 11 but will be turning 12 on the trip.

 

[bicker]

Child meals are intended for children 3-9 years old. Older than that, children are expected to order off the regular menu. You may encounter generous servers and restaurants that may waive the restriction for you, if you are inclined to ask.

 

[GreatLakes5]

Just a couple thoughts from dear Orange above -

Spontanaity was not lost for us on the DDP. In fact we were changing the ADRs the morning of, the afternoon of, etc..... Granted, this was February so it was not at the height of WDW attendance by any means, but I must say we were changing those ADRs almost up to the bitter end so I do believe spontanaity is possible on the DDP - it just may depend on the month/season you're at WDW.

I agree with the volume of food - the new changes to the DDP for 2008 actually fit better with our food in take though a buffet is a buffet in any language But I think you're right - those who eat like birds probably would not get their moneys worth.

Breakfast - I believe we used up a meal for breakfast once - the morning we left. Coffee in our reusable-only-at-the-resort-I-bought-it-at-for-the-one-trip-I-made-&-purchased-it-during-mug is my idea of a good time. (Just don't make me repeat the name of my mug again )

I"m with you on upscale for lunch. Some of our best times are sitting for our "good meal" at lunch and then loitering with counter fare in the evening when the lights are on the parks feel a-buzz.

Finally, two of our favorite restaurants for very different reasons are Earl of Sandwich and Raglan Road - we used the DDP in 2007 for both.

I think the same reasons for not using a plan fit for using it. Disney must know what they're doing when they create things like this. Each person can make it work - or not work - for them depending on their perspective. I still like the concept - I like the ease of not carrying cash or 'carding' my meals and, though I know I've paid for it all in advance, it feels free-ing to order a filet mignon somewhere and feel like I just ate something I probably wouldn't spend the money on if I were pulling my wallet out.

I'm even an accountant and I've punched the numbers, done the math, balanced the sheet, computed the tip, etc.... I think I just like the ease and I find it liberating to be on the DDP. Until it actually costs our family more to buy it than to pay out of pocket we'll stick with whatever basic version of the plan is offered because their anal accountant mom feels financially liberated when she's on it.

 

[Eeyore's Wife]

We have used the dining plan in the past because we enjoyed being able to:
1. Fully pay for our trip and have no budget surprises.
2. Eat interesting or exotic appetizers as we are not sweets people.
3. Get a good value. We calculated we saved about $10 per day/per person with the plan.

We will no longer be using the plan because:
1. We will no longer be able to pre-pay for the trip. We will still have to whip out a credit card or cash to tip our wait staff. This cost increase alone got rid of the financial benefit as well as the convenience measure.

2. We lost our appetizers. Since our son can't have processed sugar and the rest of us really don't like dessert, this is a huge hit to our personal enjoyment of the program.


The biggest loser in this equation is Disney. Due to the dining plan we have stayed on location usually in a moderate or deluxe, not had a rental car, and never left the property. Since we are now going to rent a car to allow us to eat dinner off property we will also be staying at the Value Resorts because we will have free parking at the parks, can avoid the horrible busses, and leave property to eat at reasonably priced locations. We had avoided the value resorts because they required taking those horrible busses everywhere, but now we will save the money and take a car. Also, in the past we had park hoppers so that we could head over to Epcot to eat our dinner. We will no longer be adding that cost to our tickets.

In all, we will pay 1/2 of what we used to for a room, we will be eating far fewer meals on property, and we won't be upgrading our Magic Your Way tickets. I figure we will be paying Disney 2,140 dollars less for our family vacations and I get to avoid those tardy, stand in the rain/sun/heat Busses. I will have to rent a car and we will have to pay for meals out side the parks, but I really don't think we will loose that much time given how long those darn busses took to transport us around the parks. I always hated giving up an hour of transportation time to and from the restaurants that gave us the best "bang for our buck" with the dining plan.

With the extra savings, we may head over the the new Harry Potter additions at Universal. I have never been there before, but Disney's short sighted planning, has given me both the means (more money in my pocket and a rental car for transportation) and the motive (I will admit I am really honked off about the appetizers. If they only want to allow two allow two courses, then they should have made it an appetizer/dessert option.)

I still love Disney, and we will go back, but I think our family will be changing our traveling habits. This year we made two trips to Disney, once in February and once in September. I cannot see our family doing that again with the current pricing/program offerings. This isn't a huge deal, but for me it has become the straw that broke the camel's back.

--Eeyore's Wife

 

[Tiger926]

We have used the dining plan in the past because we enjoyed being able to:
1. Fully pay for our trip and have no budget surprises.
2. Eat interesting or exotic appetizers as we are not sweets people.
3. Get a good value. We calculated we saved about $10 per day/per person with the plan.

We will no longer be using the plan because:
1. We will no longer be able to pre-pay for the trip. We will still have to whip out a credit card or cash to tip our wait staff. This cost increase alone got rid of the financial benefit as well as the convenience measure.

2. We lost our appetizers. Since our son can't have processed sugar and the rest of us really don't like dessert, this is a huge hit to our personal enjoyment of the program.


The biggest loser in this equation is Disney. Due to the dining plan we have stayed on location usually in a moderate or deluxe, not had a rental car, and never left the property. Since we are now going to rent a car to allow us to eat dinner off property we will also be staying at the Value Resorts because we will have free parking at the parks, can avoid the horrible busses, and leave property to eat at reasonably priced locations. We had avoided the value resorts because they required taking those horrible busses everywhere, but now we will save the money and take a car. Also, in the past we had park hoppers so that we could head over to Epcot to eat our dinner. We will no longer be adding that cost to our tickets.

In all, we will pay 1/2 of what we used to for a room, we will be eating far fewer meals on property, and we won't be upgrading our Magic Your Way tickets. I figure we will be paying Disney 2,140 dollars less for our family vacations and I get to avoid those tardy, stand in the rain/sun/heat Busses. I will have to rent a car and we will have to pay for meals out side the parks, but I really don't think we will loose that much time given how long those darn busses took to transport us around the parks. I always hated giving up an hour of transportation time to and from the restaurants that gave us the best "bang for our buck" with the dining plan.

With the extra savings, we may head over the the new Harry Potter additions at Universal. I have never been there before, but Disney's short sighted planning, has given me both the means (more money in my pocket and a rental car for transportation) and the motive (I will admit I am really honked off about the appetizers. If they only want to allow two allow two courses, then they should have made it an appetizer/dessert option.)

I still love Disney, and we will go back, but I think our family will be changing our traveling habits. This year we made two trips to Disney, once in February and once in September. I cannot see our family doing that again with the current pricing/program offerings. This isn't a huge deal, but for me it has become the straw that broke the camel's back.

--Eeyore's Wife

Very interesting. I've followed this whole thread, and all of the other related ones, and still hear that people are saying that they are going to leave Disney property to eat, but I wonder when it actually comes time to implement this, will it actually happen? We never leave property to eat as it's a big hassle, plus we have no desire to - we always have our own car, or rent one, so it means finding our car, loading the kids in, leaving property, traffic nightmares around 4 and I-Drive, getting to a restaurant, eating, loading back in, drive back to Disney, find another parking spot, get another bag check... etc. You get the picture. This is a lot of inconvenience with small children - heck, we did this once before the kids came with just hubby and I, and we didn't care for it.

I know that some people are ticked at Disney for making these changes, but I honestly wonder how many people are actually going to leave property? I can't imagine people are going to leave for both lunch and dinner, but even just dinner is inconvenience enough for us.

It's really all very interesting to me as I think people are fired up now, but when it comes to implementing these off-site plans in the sweltering heat, with kids in tow, I think it's going to be another whole ballgame.

Tiger