2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[TLSnell1981]

Some/anyone not happy/disappointed/upset/angry/etc. that Disney will no longer take responsibility for providing the tip to the server can/may/should/might consider NOT purchasing the DDP - it's not an 'opt-out' aspect of a trip, it's an 'opt-in'.
And yes, healthcare workers at the basic levels are not particularly well-paid.... but they at least earn minimum wage, if not more.
Sure, teachers may be underpaid given the importance/value of the work they do, and the field as a whole - but they earn well OVER minimum wage.
$2.13 an hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $4,430.40 per year (restaurant server, tipped position)
$5.85 an hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $12,168.00 per year (counter clerk, fast-food restaurant)
$31,800 = elementary teacher, base pay, per salary.com, US

You are being disingenuous when you say servers don't make minimum wage....especially a server at Disney. You and I both know that ONE tip per hour on even just a $50 bill($50x18%=$9) is more than minimum wage.

 

[apostolic4life]

You are being disingenuous when you say servers don't make minimum wage....especially a server at Disney. You and I both know that ONE tip per hour on even just a $50 bill($50x18%=$9) is more than minimum wage.

Exactly, you do make a valid point that should be considered in the equation. They will make better than minimum wage even after tipping out other staff who help them on the shift. Good servers will make far better than minimum wage.

 

[kangaand2roos]

I am guessing this has already been asked but I can't go back on all 66 pages and I'm not sure how to search. Have the snack credits been returned to their "most snacks under $4.00? (Or even include things such as churros, etc.) Anyone know?

 

[wide awake]

I've read parts of this thread, not the whole thing. But my feeling is that Disney is going to have a huge mess on their hands w/ the DDP not including the tip. People have used it for two years, and like it or not have gotten the idea that the tip is taken care of...I'm guessing so many servers will be stiffed or getting chintzy tips that they'll revolt, and Disney will have to change the plan back to the original. We have bounceback booked, I'm hoping that by the time we arrive the tipping will be included in the plan. The tipping being deducted is stupid...Disney would have been better off adding an extra $5 a day to the plan.

 

[hipchickie]

I am guessing this has already been asked but I can't go back on all 66 pages and I'm not sure how to search. Have the snack credits been returned to their "most snacks under $4.00? (Or even include things such as churros, etc.) Anyone know?

here is a seperate thread about confirmed snacks that are included
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1109080

I have to admit though, I am a little worried that this list will change greatly in january. I hope not, but fingers crossed!

 

[kangaand2roos]

here is a seperate thread about confirmed snacks that are included
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1109080

I have to admit though, I am a little worried that this list will change greatly in january. I hope not, but fingers crossed!

Thanks. That is what I'm wondering myself. I am booked Jan 31-Feb 5 and am deciding if i want to add DDP.

Just for fun, I checked the menus and figured what we were likely to spend w/out the DDP (mostly counter service, one character meal) for the 2 of us for the 5 days. With tax i guestimated $231ish for lunches, dinners and snacks (that would otherwise be covered by the DDP) It would cost me about $240 to add the DDP (a $9.00 difference.) I would then be able to exchange 4 CS's for 4 TS's (certainly a better value.)

So...even without appetizers and gratuities being included, I think the DDP is still an excellent value for those who like TS meals!

I would love to know, however, what the snack choices will be (for my own curiosity if for no other reason.)

Stacey

 

[englishrose47]

We will have to wait for the first January Dissers to get back and strat a new list of snacks for 2008!

 

[christa112]

I see pros and cons to having to tip in 2008. It was great not have to get money out of pocket, but on the other hand a server does not a tip, shouldn't get one. I had horrible server at the Sci-Fi and I would have left the waiter nothing for a tip, but because the tip was included he got on anyways. But a server getting 18% tip for working a buffet dining is a bit much for server drinks and clearing of dirty plates.

 

[DisneyKidds]

It's hard for me to see them changing the snack policy under the 2008 DDP to include less items. Remember that most every printed price list has been adjusted to show the DDP icon thingie next to items that can be purchased using the plan. So, unless they plan on changing all their menu boards again I think snacks will remain the same.

We just returned from WDW and we used the DDP again. While using 4 nights of the current DDP I thought some about what we'd be likely to do in 2008. I guess I've come to the conclusion that we probably won't bite off our nose to spite out face and pass on the 2008 DDP. The savings will be far less, but there still will be savings.

Here's an analysis of what we just got under the current plan, and what we'd likley get at the same places under the 2008 DDP.

Last week we used the plan at the following locations (and amounts covered) for 2 adults.

Narcoossee's Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax and tip - $201

Le Cellier Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax and tip - $121.

Le Cellier (yes, again) Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax and tip - $121.

Covered CS/Snacks for 4 days (at $15 pp/day) - $120

Total covered food $563.

Total cost of plan $312.

Total savings $251, or approximately 45%. No, we did not get "too much" food. We ate every bite and enjoyed it.

Total out of pocket cost for those meals $312.

So, how will that likely be different under the 2008 DDP? As best as I can figure for the same locations...............

Narcoossee's Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax - $155

Le Cellier Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax - $86.

Le Cellier (yes, again) Dinner for 2, plan covered amount for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, non-alcoholic beverages, tax - $86.

Covered CS/Snacks for 4 days (at $15 pp/day) - $120

Total covered food $447.

Total cost of plan $304.

Total savings $143, or approximately 32%.

So, comparing what you spend on the plan against the food items that you get that are covered by the new plan you still save money. That makes it hard to argue that the 2008 plan won't be a good value. If you save a buck it's a value. If you save 143 of them it's an even better value.

But..........it still is hard to look past what you'll get in 2008 versus now.

Under the 2008 DDP, if we ate the same exact meals our total out of pocket cost for same exact meals (including apps and tip) would be $421, versus $312 under the current plan. I'm basically paying $108 (or 35%) more for the same exact meals that I was getting undet the 2007 DDP. That is a significant increase in out of pocket cost, and devaluation of the current plan. Hard to swallow losing that, but it would be foolish to throw away the $143 savings (versus $251 before) that you still realize under the new plan just because I'm upset that I'm not saving as much as before.

So, after that lengthy, confusing analysis I conclude......new plan not nearly as great a value as it was in 2007, but it's still a savings, and therefore a good value.

Now, if you aren't eating the most expensive items in the most expensive restaurants (which we would be doing anyway, plan or not) than a lot of the savings might dry up and the new plan might not be a value at all.....but for us it still will be.

 

[englishrose47]

I.m confused the 2008 plan covers entree and dessert not an appie??However I agree it is stil a great value ! The cost of the plan is $38 a day now most buffets are at least $ 25 add tax about $2 and you have $27 now add in CS meal at lets say$15 with dessert and drink plus tax You are at about $42 and then you have snacks, so unless you order very inexpensive meals the ddp is still agood vlue .Then lets add in the convenience of not hqving to caary as much cashor having to worry about having enough for meals and it gets nbetter. Would I eat a sit down meal everyday without it I'm not sure I lovge the table service afte a long day at the park and cs is not as relaxing!!One thing I do know the deluxe plan would be too much for me!

 

[BriarRose59]

DisneyKidds, I liked your comparisons of the 2007 and 2008 plans, but you left out the added cost of the tips. If you back out your cs's ($120) you have $327.00 in table service meals. If you add a 20% tip for that amount that comes to $65.40. You would then need add the $65.40 to the total cost of the food for a total savings of $77.60. Am I figuring correctly? We'll still do it for the convenience, but the value is not as good as this year.

 

[Colleen27]

DisneyKidds, I liked your comparisons of the 2007 and 2008 plans, but you left out the added cost of the tips. If you back out your cs's ($120) you have $327.00 in table service meals. If you add a 20% tip for that amount that comes to $65.40. You would then need add the $65.40 to the total cost of the food for a total savings of $77.60. Am I figuring correctly? We'll still do it for the convenience, but the value is not as good as this year.

The tips don't detract from the savings because you'd be tipping OOP whether you ate on the dining plan or OOP.

 

[BriarRose59]

The tips don't detract from the savings because you'd be tipping OOP whether you ate on the dining plan or OOP.

I disagree. The 2007 DDP included an 18% tip in the daily per person cost. We always added extra money OOP to meet or exceed 20%. With the 2008 DDP the 18% gratuity is not included in our daily cost per person but instead will be paid totally OOP. Unless I am not understanding something, I see the 20% OOP for 2008 vs. the 2-5% OOP for 2007 a difference in savings.

 

[ChrisMouse]

I don't think we can even THINK about 2007 DDP anymore when we are considering this, though...we have to compare apples to apples. We can't compare THIS year's apples to LAST year's oranges!!

Because I now don't have the choice to use last year's dining plan. I now only have TWO choices. I can either do the DDP with no gratuity and no app, or I can pay OOP for everything...in which case I still have to pay the gratuity...either way I'm paying the gratuity...but I'm still saving some money by doing the DDP under the new rules over the money I would spend completely OOP.

Do I wish I had last year's rules? OF COURSE. But because we like TS and character meals, etc., it really is still going to save us a little more money to do the DDP.

 

[angelmav]

thats the problem though Chrismouse, when we project it, its only saving a 'little' bit of money. Couple of different menu choices than planned, skip a desert or two and then its not any savings, in fact it could go the other way real quick (say someone gets sick, miss a meal, etc.) I think the 08 plan is more for the convenience of prepaying for the bulk of the vacation as the savings realized isnt that great.

 

[hipchickie]

thats the problem though Chrismouse, when we project it, its only saving a 'little' bit of money. Couple of different menu choices than planned, skip a desert or two and then its not any savings, in fact it could go the other way real quick (say someone gets sick, miss a meal, etc.) I think the 08 plan is more for the convenience of prepaying for the bulk of the vacation as the savings realized isnt that great.

This is exactly what I have realized. Realistically, we would be purchasing dessert occasionally with TS meals, and never with CS meals. So while the perceived value of the plan is higher due to the dessert cost, our reality is that that menu option would not factor in to a OOP cost projection.


I do want to go over the snack allowances in greater detail though, because I think with some planning the snack credit could be used as breakfast or even lunch (!) in some places...I think I have seen soup listed for example. If the meal plan can really provide 3 meals with a little planning the value added is enough to sway me.
last time we went home with 5 rice crispy micky mouse heads just to use the credits because we just didn't know!

 

[Lewisc]

It would a simple matter to either change a few menu boards or just put stickers over the DDP logo next to deleted snacks, until Disney gets a chance to get new menu boards.

There have already been posts on DIS regarding "snacks" that are clearly not single portioned sized no longer being covered. This includes the box of donuts and 1/2 gallon bottle of milk. I don't see Disney cutting back to the half dozen or so snacks listed in the brochure but I don't see "meal replacement snacks", that cost less then $4, continuing to be covered.

It's hard for me to see them changing the snack policy under the 2008 DDP to include less items. Remember that most every printed price list has been adjusted to show the DDP icon thingie next to items that can be purchased using the plan. So, unless they plan on changing all their menu boards again I think snacks will remain the same.

 

[Lewisc]

Obviously I can't disagree with any part of this post. Some guests booked 2008 "free dining" during their 2007 stay. Not every Disney guest frequents internet discussion boards. I'd hope Disney provides those guests with clear information, long before final payment is due, regarding the differences between the 2007 and 2008 DDP.

I'm afraid servers will suffer if guests are first told of the change when the check in or worse are first told by the server at their first meal.

Disney will be at fault if they don't provide those guests with information.

You're both correct: There is no "fault" here, really. Guests can make their own decision whether they want the Dining Plan as it is provided, and then take personal responsibility for that decision, and for taking on the commitment to ensure that they comply with our nation's cultural obligation for the compensation of service staff. If guests don't like the offer, guests should forego the Dining Plan.

 

[bicker]

Unless I'm mistaken, the 2008 brochure was out before the Bounce Back offer was extended. If that's the case, it is the guest's fault for assuming that the 2008 plan would be the same as the 2007 plan. They should have asked, and gotten hard-copy of the terms and conditions of what they were purchasing before they agreed to the purchase.

That's a rule of thumb that applies to everything, always.

 

[Nancyg56]

Obviously I can't disagree with any part of this post. Some guests booked 2008 "free dining" during their 2007 stay. Not every Disney guest frequents internet discussion boards. I'd hope Disney provides those guests with clear information, long before final payment is due, regarding the differences between the 2007 and 2008 DDP.

I'm afraid servers will suffer if guests are first told of the change when the check in or worse are first told by the server at their first meal.

Disney will be at fault if they don't provide those guests with information.

Unless I'm mistaken, the 2008 brochure was out before the Bounce Back offer was extended. If that's the case, it is the guest's fault for assuming that the 2008 plan would be the same as the 2007 plan. They should have asked, and gotten hard-copy of the terms and conditions of what they were purchasing before they agreed to the purchase.

That's a rule of thumb that applies to everything, always.

It is always easy to sit back and suggest that guests ask for terms and conditions of a package and also to insist on hard copy information prior to purchasing, but when people are booking plans on a "bounce back" invitation that booking is generally based on the experience that guest just enjoyed. That is why companies offer such packages, people are very inclined to book after an experience that they enjoyed and that they perceived to be a value.

I agree with Lewis. While the company is certainly entitled to change their plans and people are responsible for their own choices, Disney certainly will have some responsibility for the wait staff if the guests that booked off the bounce back either do not realize that the tip is not included or simply choose to ignore that fact. Because they can does not always mean they should. Even at this date with the changes that have been made it would make sense that Disney contact those customers and make sure that that information is shared. Providing that information at check in is too little too late, IMO.