$2000 more for same cruise next year?

[Hundredacre]

3. You were sailing during low season, right before Easter break. And one cruise is not indicative of how much capacity they sell overall. Again, they are building two new ships for a reason.

4. I think you will find that, in general, people who make that kind of money are not driving the cheapest car they could find on the dealer lot, and they are not living in the smallest house in their town.

Yes, everyone likes getting a good deal on something, and yes, there are far more luxurious vacations to be had for the same dollar amount as a DCL cruise. I agree 100%.

However, my point is that those who are fortunate enough to have high levels of disposable income, and find value in the Disney brand and reputation (at least at this stage in their lives, when their kids are little and "into" Disney) are not going to be deterred by these fare increases, and such people are likely going to spend much more freely when onboard.

Those are the people Disney wants to fill their ships with, I bet. And when those people "age out" of Disney and move on to RCCL (or wherever), there's another young family to take their place. That's the nice thing about Disney-loving little kids - we just keep making more and more of them every day.

You might be right. I am just speaking about our personal experience. Yes we do not have the cheapest cars, but our cars are 6 and 9 years old and we have no plans to replace them for some time. I think at my current rate of use my car will last 12+ years. Hopefully 15. From my experience, the income bracket you are talking about is not cheap but looks for value for money. For example, we personally would never sail concierge because that potentially translates into hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future. The value is not there. I can have almost the same experience in an inside cabin. Put it in your 401K or child's college fund instead. In fact, we usually book inside cabins. The difference between inside cabins and a balcony can pay for a large chunk of a year of college (we need 2 rooms). I suspect we are having just as much fun as people in other cabins. My kids have never complained about inside cabins. I would estimate that the majority of people who book concierge or balcony rooms are in the $100000-$200000 bracket. This is Disney's target group. Just my guess. Which is part of why I do not get their new price jump (on top of their recent jumps the last couple of years). I am not an authority, and I believe firmly in freedom of choice and in a company's right to charge what they want, but I would be very careful about spending too much money on Disney cruise line with their current new rates. They are astronomical. We personally are always thinking about what that money spent could have been in the future. We love Disney and have children who love Disney, but we have found that our kids have just as much fun on vacation driving out to colorado and renting a house and hiking or whitewater rafting or cruising on ncl or celebrity (we suspect- we will tell you after this upcoming year- very excited to do other lines) or renting a house on the beach, etc etc. Really we have found our kids just want to spend quality time with us-- and not necessarily Mickey Mouse. That does not mean we will not cruise dcl, but just not very much anymore. Because when they raise the price of a cruise from one year to the next by 40% (yes an off season cruise that wasn't even near full. If the previous year's cruise wasn't near full why would they raise the price at all?), for us, that's stupid. As my husband said, "the smart money doesn't play that game." I had to agree.

 

[cyclenut]

It is difficult to speculate on what income brackets Disney is targeting but I do know they do their homework. Cruise pricing is not only tied to demand, but also to what they view as comparable pricing for a comparable vacation experience. I know we shop around to find a cruise at the right price. We did find one and booked it for January of 2017 out of Galvaston. We could technically afford more, but we don't see the point.

Nothing that Disney does really compares to the all inclusive Azumara experience (or so I'm told). Disney is about family cruising not luxury cruising. They try and make it as comfortable as possible, but it isn't the same as luxury accommodations.

As for the future of pricing, I'd say the announcement of two new ships is proof that Disney is not too concerned about how their price will affect capacity. I suspect we'll see price on the Magic and Wonder be more reasonable though once their fleet increases. Those smaller ships have great charm but they just don't offer as much. That is already driving pricing to a degree and it will be more pronounced when the new ships set sail. New destinations will keep the prices on those ships higher, but there is no way people are going to pay top dollar for the Magic or Wonder when they can get a similar cruise on a new ship.

 

[squirk]

You might be right. I am just speaking about our personal experience. Yes we do not have the cheapest cars, but our cars are 6 and 9 years old and we have no plans to replace them for some time. I think at my current rate of use my car will last 12+ years. Hopefully 15. From my experience, the income bracket you are talking about is not cheap but looks for value for money. For example, we personally would never sail concierge because that potentially translates into hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future. The value is not there. I can have almost the same experience in an inside cabin. Put it in your 401K or child's college fund instead. In fact, we usually book inside cabins. The difference between inside cabins and a balcony can pay for a large chunk of a year of college (we need 2 rooms). I suspect we are having just as much fun as people in other cabins. My kids have never complained about inside cabins. I would estimate that the majority of people who book concierge or balcony rooms are in the $100000-$200000 bracket. This is Disney's target group. Just my guess. Which is part of why I do not get their new price jump (on top of their recent jumps the last couple of years). I am not an authority, and I believe firmly in freedom of choice and in a company's right to charge what they want, but I would be very careful about spending too much money on Disney cruise line with their current new rates. They are astronomical. We personally are always thinking about what that money spent could have been in the future. We love Disney and have children who love Disney, but we have found that our kids have just as much fun on vacation driving out to colorado and renting a house and hiking or whitewater rafting or cruising on ncl or celebrity (we suspect- we will tell you after this upcoming year- very excited to do other lines) or renting a house on the beach, etc etc. Really we have found our kids just want to spend quality time with us-- and not necessarily Mickey Mouse. That does not mean we will not cruise dcl, but just not very much anymore. Because when they raise the price of a cruise from one year to the next by 40% (yes an off season cruise that wasn't even near full. If the previous year's cruise wasn't near full why would they raise the price at all?), for us, that's stupid. As my husband said, "the smart money doesn't play that game." I had to agree.

I don't disagree with the notion that, on paper, a DCL cruise does not give you the best "bang for the buck". Let's face it; if you stripped a DCL ship of everything Disney-related - branding, characters, music, everything - nobody would sail that ship for a 40% premium.

However, these cruises are not about what makes the most financial sense. These cruises are about a brand and delivering an experience associated with that brand to your kids. I, too, feel like DCL is starting to overvalue its brand with their parks and cruise pricing, but as @cyclenut said, Disney does its homework. They believe there is enough demand to fill up two more ships with their current pricing policies in place.

 

[Kimberly9701]

3. You were sailing during low season, right before Easter break. And one cruise is not indicative of how much capacity they sell overall. Again, they are building two new ships for a reason.

4. I think you will find that, in general, people who make that kind of money are not driving the cheapest car they could find on the dealer lot, and they are not living in the smallest house in their town.

Yes, everyone likes getting a good deal on something, and yes, there are far more luxurious vacations to be had for the same dollar amount as a DCL cruise. I agree 100%.

However, my point is that those who are fortunate enough to have high levels of disposable income, and find value in the Disney brand and reputation (at least at this stage in their lives, when their kids are little and "into" Disney) are not going to be deterred by these fare increases, and such people are likely going to spend much more freely when onboard.

Those are the people Disney wants to fill their ships with, I bet. And when those people "age out" of Disney and move on to RCCL (or wherever), there's another young family to take their place. That's the nice thing about Disney-loving little kids - we just keep making more and more of them every day.

I agree with you on this.. While the kids are little. I see a lot of people who will only cruise DCL no matter what their age.. As I said earlier, once they get past a certain age I wouldn't be able to justify it, when other ships have more exciting amenities to offer the older kids. That being said, I think Disney's new ships will have to offer more of those types of amenities to stay competitive.

 

[squirk]

I agree with you on this.. While the kids are little. I see a lot of people who will only cruise DCL no matter what their age.. As I said earlier, once they get past a certain age I wouldn't be able to justify it, when other ships have more exciting amenities to offer the older kids. That being said, I think Disney's new ships will have to offer more of those types of amenities to stay competitive.

Yep, I think DCL is a rotating door. Kids get too old, get bored with Disney stuff, the brand no longer has enough value for the premium being charged, so the family moves on.

New family enters the picture, with a little 4-y.o. girl who loves the Princesses, and the cycle starts anew. Of course, this new family probably has no frame of reference on how drastically the pricing has increased over the last several years, so they're not jaded. The fare just is what it is, and the "reasonable price" bar is reset.

 

[darnheather]

Our cruise leaving on the 10 is currently at 70% and is priced $1000 more than what I paid in September. I'm not seeing last minute discounts or discounts in general.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Yep, I think DCL is a rotating door. Kids get too old, get bored with Disney stuff, the brand no longer has enough value for the premium being charged, so the family moves on.

New family enters the picture, with a little 4-y.o. girl who loves the Princesses, and the cycle starts anew.

I kinda disagree here my friend........no rotating door...........I have seen many middle aged couples on the DCL ships, Many WDW and DCL weddings. The Disney magic sticks with people and people who find it fall in loe with it.

The bottom line really is simple, DCL charges more because people are wiling to pay for the Disney product. The other lines charge what they can, and no more, not to be obliging to their passengers, only because that is all they can charge. Their prices are going up as well. NCL has made massive cuts, however they have also announced prices are going up to pay for the mortgages on their new ships. RCCL as well. In fact their was a recent thread about the New RCCL ships are sometimes more the DCL.

Time will tell, but I believe the whole industry will be markedly raising prices over the next few years. New vessels coming out and old ships 25- +30 years old going to the 2nd market or scrapping.


AKK

 

[Ofinn]

You might be right. I am just speaking about our personal experience. Yes we do not have the cheapest cars, but our cars are 6 and 9 years old and we have no plans to replace them for some time. I think at my current rate of use my car will last 12+ years. Hopefully 15. From my experience, the income bracket you are talking about is not cheap but looks for value for money. For example, we personally would never sail concierge because that potentially translates into hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future. The value is not there. I can have almost the same experience in an inside cabin. Put it in your 401K or child's college fund instead. In fact, we usually book inside cabins. The difference between inside cabins and a balcony can pay for a large chunk of a year of college (we need 2 rooms). I suspect we are having just as much fun as people in other cabins. My kids have never complained about inside cabins. I would estimate that the majority of people who book concierge or balcony rooms are in the $100000-$200000 bracket. This is Disney's target group. Just my guess. Which is part of why I do not get their new price jump (on top of their recent jumps the last couple of years). I am not an authority, and I believe firmly in freedom of choice and in a company's right to charge what they want, but I would be very careful about spending too much money on Disney cruise line with their current new rates. They are astronomical. We personally are always thinking about what that money spent could have been in the future. We love Disney and have children who love Disney, but we have found that our kids have just as much fun on vacation driving out to colorado and renting a house and hiking or whitewater rafting or cruising on ncl or celebrity (we suspect- we will tell you after this upcoming year- very excited to do other lines) or renting a house on the beach, etc etc. Really we have found our kids just want to spend quality time with us-- and not necessarily Mickey Mouse. That does not mean we will not cruise dcl, but just not very much anymore. Because when they raise the price of a cruise from one year to the next by 40% (yes an off season cruise that wasn't even near full. If the previous year's cruise wasn't near full why would they raise the price at all?), for us, that's stupid. As my husband said, "the smart money doesn't play that game." I had to agree.

I agree with you on so many points. Having a high income doesn't necessarily mean you have a lot of disposable income and vice versa. We cruise DCL three times a year and are no where near being in the top 1%. We just have a lot of disposable income. We have lived in the same house for 20 years, drive old cars, book ocean view or inside rooms, we don't do excursions through dcl, keep are debt low, and homeschool are kids so we can travel off season. We don't book ahead. We wait for deals on cruises that don't sell. Like Hawaii last year and Iceland this year.
All that being said we are trying Carnival later this year, and probably not too far off from trying RCCL. Not so much because of price. I think I'll see more and more last minute deals on DCL over the next year. I personally don't think DCL is going to be able to sell out cruises at the prices they are asking. I'm ready to try something new because I'm just bored with DCL's Caribbean cruises. It's the same shows, acts etc. etc. every cruise.

Family cruising wasn't designed for the rich. It's supposed to be an affordable way for middle class families to enjoy a great vacation. I'm not sure what DCL is thinking with their pricing, but I think it's going to hurt them in the long run.

 

[darnheather]

And as for why DCL for my family when other similar cruises were truly more within our comfortable price range: 1) I don't gamble. It isn't something I'm morally against, I'm just too logical for it to be interesting or fun. I like that DCL offers things for grownups other than gambling. 2) I drink minimum amounts of alcohol. So the cheap alcohol packages and thoughts of many drunken adults on other cruise lines does not interest me in the slightest. 3) My children are 10 and 14. They are just about to age out of the Disney Magic (IMHO). When we went to DW in 2013 I promised them a Disney cruise so this is it. However, this is it. I don't see us cruising at all unless they want to go as adults and take me along. 4) I found a lot of them to be tacky in decor and even when they had characters for kids they were not characters my kids are interested in. 5) I love good food, and from what I've read Disney has some of the best. I'm paying extra to have a sit down meal every evening with excellent service and free room service.

I love Disney: the parks, movies, music, characters. However, I am not a Disney addict. I enjoy many types of vacations. Someone mentioned earlier that some people on this forum are addicts and they are right. They will "do" Disney once or twice a year and price be damned. It's a different kind of mindset and there is no logical argument that would sway them. It's ok. The world takes all types.

 

[squirk]

I kinda disagree here my friend........no rotating door...........I have seen many middle aged couples on the DCL ships, Many WDW and DCL weddings. The Disney magic sticks with people and people who find it fall in love with it.

I don't disagree that there are such people. Indeed, this whole board is filled with people like that. But I would bet my left hand that the overwhelming majority of DCL cruisers are not super-fans like us, but are there to indulge their kids.

 

[squirk]

Family cruising wasn't designed for the rich. It's supposed to be an affordable way for middle class families to enjoy a great vacation. I'm not sure what DCL is thinking with their pricing, but I think it's going to hurt them in the long run.

Rich people have kids who love Disney just as much as anyone else. Parents are suckers and will pay top-dollar to give their kids that experience. Disney parks and DCL may have started out as an affordable way for middle-class families to enjoy a vacation, but Disney is starting to price out some of that middle class.

What is DCL thinking with their pricing? I guess they just have not seen resistance or a "ceiling" yet. They will keep pushing it until they do.

And I stand behind the idea that they want a demographic that will spend more per-capita onboard than less. I don't think those people are found at the lower economic end of DCL's target market. That, or it's the rotating door of fresh, unjaded families who haven't yet felt burned by year-over-year price increases.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I don't disagree that there are such people. Indeed, this whole board is filled with people like that. But I would bet my left hand that the overwhelming majority of DCL cruisers are not super-fans like us, but are there to indulge their kids.

OK.......I see your point !

 

[Ofinn]

Rich people have kids who love Disney just as much as anyone else. Parents are suckers and will pay top-dollar to give their kids that experience. Disney parks and DCL may have started out as an affordable way for middle-class families to enjoy a vacation, but Disney is starting to price out some of that middle class.

What is DCL thinking with their pricing? I guess they just have not seen resistance or a "ceiling" yet. They will keep pushing it until they do.

And I stand behind the idea that they want a demographic that will spend more per-capita onboard than less. I don't think those people are found at the lower economic end of DCL's target market. That, or it's the rotating door of fresh, unjaded families who haven't yet felt burned by year-over-year price increases.

Yeah I guess. Three years ago I never saw discounts on DCL. Now we get them all the time. The high prices have benefited us. I feel bad for the people that want to cruise DCL that are getting priced out, and don't qualify for discounts. Even the discounted rates are starting to be higher than other cruise lines normal rates. You are right though, there will always be people having kids that want to give there kids the Disney experience. I do think the number of repeat cruisers is going to steadily decline.

 

[tidefan]

Really? When I priced out Oasis and and the same cruise on Disney, Disney was still twice as much. Our VGT May Fantasy cruise was I think over twice as much as the cruise we did after New Years on Oasis. Hubby and I have said that for 20-30% difference we would consider Dieney again, but not 50-100%

Last year, for the 3 of us, a 7-night on the Magic for all 3 of us was about $400 more than the Oasis, and at that time, I could bring Rum on the DCL ship, so it was a no-brainer...

 

[DnA2010]

Last year, for the 3 of us, a 7-night on the Magic for all 3 of us was about $400 more than the Oasis, and at that time, I could bring Rum on the DCL ship, so it was a no-brainer...

I am indeed very jealous! That 100% would be a no brainer! I've never seen anything remotely close when I have compared!

 

[tinkerone]

Last year, for the 3 of us, a 7-night on the Magic for all 3 of us was about $400 more than the Oasis, and at that time, I could bring Rum on the DCL ship, so it was a no-brainer...

the price difference for us, between the fantasy and the oasis, two adults for november 2016 was almost $2000. that's huge! november is mostly an off season time.
I think that dcl is in fact trying to bump out the repeaters however that can come back and bite them in the butt. how many people have repeaters referred to dcl? we have talked it up tons and sent lots of business their way. now, with switching curise lines, and of course assuming we will like the new line, we will be referring them to rcl and with good reason. i'm not going to send people to a place I'm no longer willing to go.
i'm not looking to start a new debate (this has been debated before on the dis) but the cost of acquiring a new client is a lot LOT more than keeping one. word of mouth is more cost affective than having to buy ad time (magazine/tv). good business is keeping your clientele happy, not trying to weed them out and find new families. eventually you run out of families who can afford this 'luxury'. filling 4 ships may be easy enough for this but filling 6 may be a totally different story.
jmo

 

[squirk]

Yeah I guess. Three years ago I never saw discounts on DCL. Now we get them all the time. The high prices have benefited us. I feel bad for the people that want to cruise DCL that are getting priced out, and don't qualify for discounts. Even the discounted rates are starting to be higher than other cruise lines normal rates. You are right though, there will always be people having kids that want to give there kids the Disney experience. I do think the number of repeat cruisers is going to steadily decline.

Yes, I feel bad, too. Given how Disney has started marketing DCL on the Disney Channel and at the movie theaters, where millions upon millions of kids will see the ads, it has to be a painful discussion to tell your kids "Sorry, but the Disney cruise is too expensive for us".

Granted, for Disney to stay profitable, there will always be a segment of the population that will be "priced out", but the pricing lately just feels too aggressive, like they really are targeting either the rich and/or the folks who don't know any better.

 

[Hundredacre]

Our cruise leaving on the 10 is currently at 70% and is priced $1000 more than what I paid in September. I'm not seeing last minute discounts or discounts in general.

It is interesting, because there were never any discounts on the cruise we just went on and it had a very low passenger count.

 

[Kimberly9701]

You might be right. I am just speaking about our personal experience. Yes we do not have the cheapest cars, but our cars are 6 and 9 years old and we have no plans to replace them for some time. I think at my current rate of use my car will last 12+ years. Hopefully 15. From my experience, the income bracket you are talking about is not cheap but looks for value for money. For example, we personally would never sail concierge because that potentially translates into hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future. The value is not there. I can have almost the same experience in an inside cabin. Put it in your 401K or child's college fund instead. In fact, we usually book inside cabins. The difference between inside cabins and a balcony can pay for a large chunk of a year of college (we need 2 rooms). I suspect we are having just as much fun as people in other cabins. My kids have never complained about inside cabins. I would estimate that the majority of people who book concierge or balcony rooms are in the $100000-$200000 bracket. This is Disney's target group. Just my guess. Which is part of why I do not get their new price jump (on top of their recent jumps the last couple of years). I am not an authority, and I believe firmly in freedom of choice and in a company's right to charge what they want, but I would be very careful about spending too much money on Disney cruise line with their current new rates. They are astronomical. We personally are always thinking about what that money spent could have been in the future. We love Disney and have children who love Disney, but we have found that our kids have just as much fun on vacation driving out to colorado and renting a house and hiking or whitewater rafting or cruising on ncl or celebrity (we suspect- we will tell you after this upcoming year- very excited to do other lines) or renting a house on the beach, etc etc. Really we have found our kids just want to spend quality time with us-- and not necessarily Mickey Mouse. That does not mean we will not cruise dcl, but just not very much anymore. Because when they raise the price of a cruise from one year to the next by 40% (yes an off season cruise that wasn't even near full. If the previous year's cruise wasn't near full why would they raise the price at all?), for us, that's stupid. As my husband said, "the smart money doesn't play that game." I had to agree.

I also think it matters if Disney is your only vacation for the year. I'm not talking about weekend trips. For example, myself and my son travel together. Disney will never be our only destination per year, there is too much that I want him to see and experience. Travel is a very important part of my life. So let's say I set a budget for our DW/DCL trip, and stick in it's ballpark, I can still comfortably and most importantly-justifiably-travel internationally that same year. I will only do a balcony room on a cruise, but I don't see the value in concierge. Similarly at DW resorts- I definitely do not see any 'bang for my buck' to upgrade from a Theme Park View room to concierge level- maybe some do, but for me and my son, there is no real value or advantage there, and I'm completely satisfied with the standard TPV. When I was deciding to stay Pre or Post cruise at DW my final decision was made based on price and crowd calendars- I could stay pre cruise for $800 more- with 9/10 crowd levels..or I could go post cruise, save the $800 and have significantly lower crowds. To me that was a no brainer. No sense in paying more money with high crowds.

I don't think it's ever been a questions of Disney targeting different demographics for different experiences..you can stay for a week at a value resort and choosing to not attend character meals, for equal or less than 1-2 nights at a Deluxe with said meals. Will people pay ridiculous prices for these Deluxe resorts? Of course, bc to some, myself included, think that convenience

the price difference for us, between the fantasy and the oasis, two adults for november 2016 was almost $2000. that's huge! november is mostly an off season time.
I think that dcl is in fact trying to bump out the repeaters however that can come back and bite them in the butt. how many people have repeaters referred to dcl? we have talked it up tons and sent lots of business their way. now, with switching curise lines, and of course assuming we will like the new line, we will be referring them to rcl and with good reason. i'm not going to send people to a place I'm no longer willing to go.
i'm not looking to start a new debate (this has been debated before on the dis) but the cost of acquiring a new client is a lot LOT more than keeping one. word of mouth is more cost affective than having to buy ad time (magazine/tv). good business is keeping your clientele happy, not trying to weed them out and find new families. eventually you run out of families who can afford this 'luxury'. filling 4 ships may be easy enough for this but filling 6 may be a totally different story.
jmo

I'm surprised at this. I am going in Novemeber '16, Novemeber 26th, because my son loves all things Christmas and once the second week of December hits I am absolutely slammed and can not be away..at least not enjoyably away lol. The price difference was @ $1200, for same category, but RCL does have more add ons, so it would narrow the gap.
Even at $2k I probably wouldn't have changed my mind on this cruise. But anything over a 2-$3k difference on a Med cruise I'd have a harder time justifying...especially compared to a newer more amenity filled ship.

 

[Hundredacre]

Yes, I feel bad, too. Given how Disney has started marketing DCL on the Disney Channel and at the movie theaters, where millions upon millions of kids will see the ads, it has to be a painful discussion to tell your kids "Sorry, but the Disney cruise is too expensive for us".

Granted, for Disney to stay profitable, there will always be a segment of the population that will be "priced out", but the pricing lately just feels too aggressive, like they really are targeting either the rich and/or the folks who don't know any better.

This is interesting. Because I wonder how much is kid driven verses parent driven. We do not have cable and have not had it for over ten years, so our kids never asked us for stuff like dcl. I think parents have a lot of control over this.