2 Officers shot in Dallas tonight during police protest rally

[CPanther95]

Do people really need semi-automatic weapons? I believe they were saying that's what the sniper(s) had and we know the Pulse guy had one. Is it possible for Americans to protect themselves and hunt and do anything else guns are supposed do with guns that cannot shoot hundreds of bullets in a matter of minutes? That might be a law that could be considered.

You couldn't ban all semi-auto weapons. It would require the government confiscation of probably over 150,000,000 weapons (which would never be allowed) and still have no effect on crime or criminals.

That would be as pointless as the "assault weapons" ban they have in Chicago where people that are clueless about firearms believe a bayonet holder and a threaded barrel on a rifle turns it into an "assault weapon" and it suddenly becomes a more dangerous weapon.

And no, it's not possible to do everything with guns that people are doing now without them and they would be far less effective - at least for the law abiding folks that would have to do without. Although criminals would love the advantage that the law would bring.

 

[asta]

Website of the darling organizer of the peaceful rally last night.
http://revjeffhood.com/

Very interesting site. I don't know if it is poetry or stream of consciousness but I couldn't understand it. He has a very impressive list of schools, he certainly had received a lot of religious training.

He and his fellow organizer of the rally held a news conference this morning where he appeared to come a little unhinged and just went on and on. At some point the other organizer had to step up and try to get him to stop talking. It was kind of funny. I don't think he was saying anything wrong, he just likes to hear himself talk.

 

[lizabu]

You couldn't ban all semi-auto weapons. It would require the government confiscation of probably over 150,000,000 weapons (which would never be allowed) and still have no effect on crime or criminals.

That would be as pointless as the "assault weapons" ban they have in Chicago where people that are clueless about firearms believe a bayonet holder and a threaded barrel on a rifle turns it into an "assault weapon" and it suddenly becomes a more dangerous weapon.

If they stopped selling new ones over many years eventually the ones that are out there would become old and eventually stop working wouldn't they? I understand that it would take a long time.

Curious....what exactly are people doing with these types of weapons? If you try to kill a deer with it you will likely ruin the meat. Just curious what the actual purpose of these weapons are supposed to be (aside from killing large numbers of people at once).

 

[King Schultz]

Would you agree this one is misguided?

I back the right to protest peacefully, but this guy does seem pretty out there.

 

[lizabu]

Very interesting site. I don't know if it is poetry or stream of consciousness but I couldn't understand it. He has a very impressive list of schools, he certainly had received a lot of religious training.

He and his fellow organizer of the rally held a news conference this morning where he appeared to come a little unhinged and just went on and on. At some point the other organizer had to step up and try to get him to stop talking. It was kind of funny. I don't think he was saying anything wrong, he just likes to hear himself talk.

I saw him on tv too. He looks a little goofy but he seems to have his heart in the right place.

 

[CPanther95]

If they stopped selling new ones over many years eventually the ones that are out there would become old and eventually stop working wouldn't they? I understand that it would take a long time.

No they wouldn't. Guns can be kept working for centuries.

 

[lizabu]

No they wouldn't. Guns can be kept working for centuries.

Maybe they could stop selling the bullets. I think there must be a solution if people truly wanted to find one.

 

[Madame]

No they wouldn't. Guns can be kept working for centuries.

Then just stop selling the bullets that fit them, no?

 

[jetskigrl]

I listened to her whole statement. It was irresponsible to call for punishment against police officers in light of what had just happened in Dallas which the shooter blamed on the need to take action against police. We have had enough of those type statements. We have a terrible pattern of people hearing half of a story and calling for the heads of police without hearing all of the evidence. They get so worked up that they disregard any other evidence. In our society we turn these cases over to the courts to decide. You may not like the decisions but we are bound by that system.

I did not hear her call for everyone to wait for all evidence and due process before deciding they need to see police officers punished. Anything she said to excuse that line of thought was lost on me.

I'm not interpreting her statements the same way you are, I guess. I don't think she called for punishment against police officers (as a general statement). She asked for the police officers in these shootings to be held accountable. I do agree that using "make an example of someone" was a poor choice of words. But reading the rest of the text from that video, I see what she was trying to say.

This was the text of the video on the website:

Instead, she emphasized the need to hold law enforcement accountable — to "make an example of someone," she said.

"Because there's no way all of these things could happen and there's no guilty police officers (involved)," Latifah said.

"Every time these things happen, no one is really brought to justice at the end of the day. By the time it's all said and done, the police officers usually walk," she said.

"And what it does is leave us feeling empty, feeling hurt and feeling like we have no recompense and that it's going to happen again."

And that's not all it does, she argued.

"And what it also does is endanger the life of police officers," she added. "You make all these good cops have to walk out here dealing with bad cops' BS, dealing with the stuff bad cops are doing."

 

[disneyseniors]

Did we not learn anything from the stupid story in Ferguson? Let an investigation happen before you leap to the tune of racist cops killing at will.
These officers were shot within earshot of the calls of "No justice, No peace"

Right I live in Mn. and have heard that the man who was shot had been arrested 79 times in the past! 79 times! I don't know about you, but that seems like a huge number of arrests for person to have! Let's study all the facts first.
Our "president" needs to quit inciting these things and he needs to support law enforcement and stand behind them. If we did not have them, it would be chaos and anarchy.

 

[StanH]

 

[StanH]

I saw him on tv too. He looks a little goofy but he seems to have his heart in the right place.

Just like David Koresh

 

[lizabu]

This is ridiculous and you clearly do not understand the meaning of, nor the importance of the 2nd Amendment.

That's probably true. I'm Canadian and here people are allowed to buy certain types of guns for hunting but aside from that our law enforcement officers are the only ones who should have a gun. We sometimes hear about the odd person getting shot but it's very rare. I live in a city af 500,000 people and I think we've had a one shooting this year. 13 homicides so far this year in my city because even without guns people are going to figure out ways to kill one another. I'm not sure what the solution is. I just think there must be one.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

About that George Washington quote...that's the sort of thinking that is out-dated and lead to the events last night...the attacker felt that he was taking up arms against his oppressors and innocent peace officers died...every time I hear people talk like that I hope they stop and think about the dead police officers and soldiers that they are advocating using their weapons against...and then maybe turn their thoughts to this quote from Jefferson:
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with PROGRESS of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions MUST ADVANCE also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Just like David Koresh

And the Bundy Ranch gang...you know, the ones threatening to sue because they aren't granted their 2nd Amendment Rights while in jail?

 

[asta]

I'm not interpreting her statements the same way you are, I guess. I don't think she called for punishment against police officers (as a general statement). She asked for the police officers in these shootings to be held accountable. I do agree that using "make an example of someone" was a poor choice of words. But reading the rest of the text from that video, I see what she was trying to say.

This was the text of the video on the website:

Instead, she emphasized the need to hold law enforcement accountable — to "make an example of someone," she said.

"Because there's no way all of these things could happen and there's no guilty police officers (involved)," Latifah said.

"Every time these things happen, no one is really brought to justice at the end of the day. By the time it's all said and done, the police officers usually walk," she said.

"And what it does is leave us feeling empty, feeling hurt and feeling like we have no recompense and that it's going to happen again."

And that's not all it does, she argued.

"And what it also does is endanger the life of police officers," she added. "You make all these good cops have to walk out here dealing with bad cops' BS, dealing with the stuff bad cops are doing."

You may see this as ok but it sounds like to me she is calling for making an example of a policeman without going through the justice system. Under our system of justice you are assumed innocent until proven guilty by our courts. Just because you don't like the verdicts handed down by juries and judges does not give you the right to call for them to be held accountable to make an example. If the police officers walk it is because the evidence was not there to convict them. And in the two cases of police violence this week, many people have already decided the police are guilty without hearing from them and without a trial. It is trial by iPhone. This is not what we are about.

And honestly her last statement sounds like a threat of violence against other police if we don't bow to demands to make an example of certain police. And we have seen enough violence.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm not interpreting her statements the same way you are, I guess. I don't think she called for punishment against police officers (as a general statement). She asked for the police officers in these shootings to be held accountable. I do agree that using "make an example of someone" was a poor choice of words. But reading the rest of the text from that video, I see what she was trying to say.

This was the text of the video on the website:

Instead, she emphasized the need to hold law enforcement accountable — to "make an example of someone," she said.

"Because there's no way all of these things could happen and there's no guilty police officers (involved)," Latifah said.

"Every time these things happen, no one is really brought to justice at the end of the day. By the time it's all said and done, the police officers usually walk," she said.

"And what it does is leave us feeling empty, feeling hurt and feeling like we have no recompense and that it's going to happen again."

And that's not all it does, she argued.

"And what it also does is endanger the life of police officers," she added. "You make all these good cops have to walk out here dealing with bad cops' BS, dealing with the stuff bad cops are doing."

Right. It's a twist to say she's calling for police to be punished. She's talking about accountability.

 

[sunshinehighway]

About that George Washington quote...that's the sort of thinking that is out-dated and lead to the events last night...the attacker felt that he was taking up arms against his oppressors and innocent peace officers died...every time I hear people talk like that I hope they stop and think about the dead police officers and soldiers that they are advocating using their weapons against...and then maybe turn their thoughts to this quote from Jefferson:
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with PROGRESS of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions MUST ADVANCE also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

I think you make a very good point.

 

[StanH]

About that George Washington quote...that's the sort of thinking that is out-dated and lead to the events last night...the attacker felt that he was taking up arms against his oppressors and innocent peace officers died...every time I hear people talk like that I hope they stop and think about the dead police officers and soldiers that they are advocating using their weapons against...and then maybe turn their thoughts to this quote from Jefferson:
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with PROGRESS of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions MUST ADVANCE also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

Shall we continue?

 

[Airship Ariadne]

I think you make a very good point.

Thank you...I'm not anti-gun...but think we need to think through what we are advocating.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Interesting that the shooter who has been identified is a veteran and had been in Afghanistan.

I bring it up because support for veterans and mental health are important topics and I hope that is looked into and not overshadowed by everything else.