2 Officers shot in Dallas tonight during police protest rally

[TLSnell1981]

That's probably true. I'm Canadian and here people are allowed to buy certain types of guns for hunting but aside from that our law enforcement officers are the only ones who should have a gun. We sometimes hear about the odd person getting shot but it's very rare. I live in a city af 500,000 people and I think we've had a one shooting this year. 13 homicides so far this year in my city because even without guns people are going to figure out ways to kill one another. I'm not sure what the solution is. I just think there must be one.

Some are inciting hate and violence from their bully pulpits. Maybe, we could start there?

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Shall we continue?

No thanks, I plan on wearing the adult coat, not the boy's coat.

 

[rickybobby]

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

Shall we continue?

Nice debate going on here.

 

[rickybobby]

And the winner is........StanH

 

[sunshinehighway]

Thank you...I'm not anti-gun...but think we need to think through what we are advocating.

Yes. It's easy to throw out quotes and memes but people need to understand those things can fit many differing viewpoints and can be quite harmful depending on the context it's put in.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

And the winner is........StanH

Yeah, he just came up with quotes to validate the killing of police officers if you think your rights are threatened...if you consider that a winning argument today.

 

[robinb]

And the winner is........StanH

Only because if we argue we'll get points for having a debate about guns.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Only because if we argue we'll get points for having a debate about guns.

And I don't want to debate guns...I just think words have meanings and we need to think about what we say and promote...It is possible to voice reasons for gun ownership that don't include using them against the government as a valid reason...same thing the black lives matter people need to think about as well when they say things that are thinly veiled threats

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Interesting that the shooter who has been identified is a veteran and had been in Afghanistan.

I bring it up because support for veterans and mental health are important topics and I hope that is looked into and not overshadowed by everything else.

I hope THAT doesn't overshadow everything else. Vets need more help than we know but they don't need this continued stigma that veterans with PTSD are unstable killers... Nor should it be used as a way to try to rationalize/excuse his actions.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

I hope THAT doesn't overshadow everything else. Vets need more help than we know but they don't need this continued stigma that veterans with PTSD are unstable killers... Nor should it be used as a way to try to rationalize/excuse his actions.

Absolutely...and I actually doubt that story (a PTSD excuse) will get much traction...this was too well planned and staged. I think the only reason his service is important is it helps understand his deadly accuracy and planning. He was trained by the best, and then turned against us.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I hope THAT doesn't overshadow everything else. Vets need more help than we know but they don't need this continued stigma that veterans with PTSD are unstable killers... Nor should it be used as a way to try to rationalize/excuse his actions.

Maybe you misunderstood me, I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone or paint group as unstable killers.
When a guy goes from veteran to ambushing police and murdering them it's not as simple as "he wanted to kill white people" ( which was a huge talking point as to his motivation).

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Absolutely...and I actually doubt that story (a PTSD excuse) will get much traction...this was too well planned and staged. I think the only reason his service is important is it helps understand his deadly accuracy and planning. He was trained by the best, and then turned against us.

That makes sense. I didn't think that far into it. My post was kind of a knee jerk response.

 

[cabanafrau]

I hope THAT doesn't overshadow everything else. Vets need more help than we know but they don't need this continued stigma that veterans with PTSD are unstable killers... Nor should it be used as a way to try to rationalize/excuse his actions.

No, but our vets do need more understanding of what they have been through while deployed. It is our obligation to provide more supportive services than we have, because we owe them that much for sure. I don't say that as either a stigmatization or rationalization regarding this shooter, merely another issue that as a country we need to come together and address.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Maybe you misunderstood me, I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone or paint group as unstable killers.
When a guy goes from veteran to ambushing police and murdering them it's not as simple as "he wanted to kill white people" ( which was a huge talking point as to his motivation).

I did initially misunderstand and hastily responded.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

No, but our vets do need more understanding of what they have been through while deployed. It is our obligation to provide more supportive services than we have, because we owe them that much for sure. I don't say that as either a stigmatization or rationalization regarding this shooter, merely another issue that as a country we need to come together and address.

I agree.

I guess I'm just super sensitive right now(as everyone is I'm sure) and that just hit a nerve for some reason.

No hard feelings Sunshine... I didn't mean to jump on you personally.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I did initially misunderstand and hastily responded.

It's fine. I think a lot of topics are so sensitive for people that it's hard to talk about them or frame discussions in ways that aren't misinterpreted (especially in a post).

Edited to add

I think when many posters talk about the mental health of our veterans it is not an attempt to excuse someone's bad behavior or stigmatize a group. It is out of concern for veteran who need more services than they receive ( for a variety or reasons). It's not about blame or judgement but about knowing better support needs to be in place.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's fine. I think a lot of topics are so sensitive for people that it's hard to talk about them or frame discussions in ways that aren't misinterpreted (especially in a post).

Edited to add

I think when many posters talk about the mental health of our veterans it is not an attempt to excuse someone's bad behavior or stigmatize a group. It is out of concern for veteran who need more services than they receive ( for a variety or reasons). It's not about blame or judgement but about knowing better support needs to be in place.

True. I know myself I'm worried about a Marine who's almost exactly the age of this shooter and the changes in him since his deployment in Afghanistan. He's not a risk to anybody, but some of his happy go lucky spirit seems to have disappeared after his experiences and I happen to know he struggles emotionally from time to time.

A lot of our vets struggle when they come home and unfortunately a lot of them fall into the criminal justice system for various reasons, which is a complete 180 from who they've always been. There has been a push around the country to establish veterans' courts within our court systems to address these issues more specifically and try to provide a path back to where they should be. Our country has been dropping the ball big time on supporting our vets.

 

[asta]

The stories continue. This was in our local paper about another shooting in East Tennessee aimed at whites and police officers.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...y-gunman-motivated-police-shootings/86867842/

 

[pat fan]

guns that cannot shoot hundreds of bullets in a matter of minutes?

A semi-automatic can not shoot hundreds of rounds in a matter of minutes. I think you are thinking of an automatic weapon. Semi-auto you need to pull the trigger for each shot, and if you tried shooting hundreds of times it would A) jam and B) need to be reloaded continuously.

Please let's not turn this into a gun debate.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Lets all pray for unity - I feel like the media is trying to tear our country apart with shoddy reporting, and agenda to incite. Lets all work together - not separate.