13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[thedonduck]

You answered your own question. If the woman has a viable fetus they are keeping her alive until such point that the fetus can be safely delivered I would assume.

But sunshine and I have the same question. Everyone on this board has talked about the 13 yo body starting to break down/deteriorate, etc. before the next court hearing because she is brain dead and being kept alive mechanically.

Why will she decompose (again I'm not trying to be insensitive) as such a faster rate than the woman in TX that is becoming kept "alive" because she is pregnant. The hospital there will need to keep her mechanically alive for over 10 weeks to get to a viability point where they can further assess the fetus and then decide how many weeks after that to continue if they decide they can deliver.

It makes no sense to me the difference. Both are declared brain dead. The only difference is who is fighting to keep them alive

 

[kacaju]

Woa! Has anyone read the info about the facility in Long Island willing to take this girl? All I have to say is ????????? It does not sound like a true medical facility.

On their website it says they are an OUTPATIENT facility. Looking into it they are in the process of renovating a place for inpatient...but according to this
http://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/tag/brendan-house
article on 12/9/13 it was still under construction

 

[kacaju]

re reading that it is a group home..not a medical/nursing home... I can't see this happening.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

On their website it says they are an OUTPATIENT facility. Looking into it they are in the process of renovating a place for inpatient...but according to this http://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/tag/brendan-house article on 12/9/13 it was still under construction

Maybe the facility is hoping to cash in on the publicity surrounding this case. They can get there name out there so more people will put their family members there.

 

[sunshinehighway]

But sunshine and I have the same question. Everyone on this board has talked about the 13 yo body starting to break down/deteriorate, etc. before the next court hearing because she is brain dead and being kept alive mechanically.

Why will she decompose (again I'm not trying to be insensitive) as such a faster rate than the woman in TX that is becoming kept "alive" because she is pregnant. The hospital there will need to keep her mechanically alive for over 10 weeks to get to a viability point where they can further assess the fetus and then decide how many weeks after that to continue if they decide they can deliver.

It makes no sense to me the difference. Both are declared brain dead. The only difference is who is fighting to keep them alive

I'm glad you get what I'm saying.

I think it's a case of posters jumping on something someone posts as fact when they were wrong. If you notice nobody posting about it earlier has tried to explain. LisaR did post a link but I don't think she was one of the earlier posters. Other than that its only be addressed to explain why they are keeping the Texas woman alive (which is obvious).

 

[dakcp2001]

But sunshine and I have the same question. Everyone on this board has talked about the 13 yo body starting to break down/deteriorate, etc. before the next court hearing because she is brain dead and being kept alive mechanically.

Why will she decompose (again I'm not trying to be insensitive) as such a faster rate than the woman in TX that is becoming kept "alive" because she is pregnant. The hospital there will need to keep her mechanically alive for over 10 weeks to get to a viability point where they can further assess the fetus and then decide how many weeks after that to continue if they decide they can deliver.

It makes no sense to me the difference. Both are declared brain dead. The only difference is who is fighting to keep them alive

Actually I would think that a younger persons body would last longer, but that's just a guess. Young healthy tissue should take longer to break down. But there are complications that either one could suffer, ventilator pneumonia and sepsis for example. No way to predict. But extreme measures are being taken to save the fetus in Texas, whereas extreme measures are being requested to keep a corpse breathing in California. Very different situations. I suspect they will need a lot of drips ( medications) to keep blood pressure etc stable. So whether or not they have complications or system break downs, no one really knows when it will happen for anyone. Some 30 year olds might be in better shape physically and cardiovascularlay than a younger unhealthy obese person. I am not saying that about these two, I am just saying everyone's level of health going into this type of thing is very different. The Texas woman may have been a super fit marathon runner for all we know.

Guess who will end up paying for this super expensive care in Texas? I am very curious about who is paying in California, although I suspect now the answer. I doubt very much any place will be taking her in, and if they do, it would speak volumes about their ethics.


I do not work I. Critical care, but I imagine the ph would need to be maintained as well. Breakdown of systems can cause metabolic acidosis? There will be skin breakdown, there could be circulation issues to the extremities. Maybe a critical care person could speak more to this?

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Yes, an outpatient facility with plans to provide in patient care sometime in the future. They take a holistic approach to rehab of individuals with traumatic brain injury. Of course they are prepared to handle this matter.





It's moved beyond ridiculous.

 

[dakcp2001]

Yes, an outpatient facility with plans to provide in patient care sometime in the future. They take a holistic approach to rehab of individuals with traumatic brain injury. Of course they are prepared to handle this matter.





It's moved beyond ridiculous.

I agree. We are just prolonging the inevitable.

 

[SLP958]

Actually I would think that a younger persons body would last longer, but that's just a guess. Young healthy tissue should take longer to break down. But there are complications that either one could suffer, ventilator pneumonia and sepsis for example. No way to predict. But extreme measures are being taken to save the fetus in Texas, whereas extreme measures are being requested to keep a corpse breathing in California. Very different situations. I suspect they will need a lot of drips ( medications) to keep blood pressure etc stable. So whether or not they have complications or system break downs, no one really knows when it will happen for anyone. Some 30 year olds might be in better shape physically and cardiovascularlay than a younger unhealthy obese person. I am not saying that about these two, I am just saying everyone's level of health going into this type of thing is very different. The Texas woman may have been a super fit marathon runner for all we know.

Guess who will end up paying for this super expensive care in Texas? I am very curious about who is paying in California, although I suspect now the answer. I doubt very much any place will be taking her in, and if they do, it would speak volumes about their ethics.



I do not work I. Critical care, but I imagine the ph would need to be maintained as well. Breakdown of systems can cause metabolic acidosis? There will be skin breakdown, there could be circulation issues to the extremities. Maybe a critical care person could speak more to this?

I just asked the nursing supervisor at the hospital where I work. She said as long as the body is getting oxygen through the vent it will not decompose but will have skin breakdown in the form of bedsores etc.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I just asked the nursing supervisor at the hospital where I work. She said as long as the body is getting oxygen through the vent it will not decompose but will have skin breakdown in the form of bedsores etc.

Thank you.

It just really bothered me the way posters were jumping on the family a few pages back with all the talk of abuse of a corpse and her starting to decompose.

 

[LiveYourLife]

I have a question for those who are medical professionals. Wouldn't a scan of Jahi's brain at this point show that there is nothing there (ie: hollow skull sign)? It's been 2.5 weeks. I apologize for that being such a macabre question, but her mother is so desperately hanging on to Jahi's heart beating as possible hope that she will recover, I would hope that something such as a scan showing that there is no brain would cause reality to set in and they will finally let Jahi rest in peace.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I have a question for those who are medical professionals. Wouldn't a scan of Jahi's brain at this point show that there is nothing there (ie: hollow skull sign)? It's been 2.5 weeks. I apologize for that being such a macabre question, but her mother is so desperately hanging on to Jahi's heart beating as possible hope that she will recover, I would hope that something such as a scan showing that there is no brain would cause reality to set in and they will finally let Jahi rest in peace.

In one report I read that the scans show no brain activity and no blood flow to the brain.

 

[bittybabygrower]

They have done all those studies. Eventually her brain will atrophy.

 

[LiveYourLife]

In one report I read that the scans show no brain activity and no blood flow to the brain.

I know that scans have shown no brain activity and/or blood flow to the brain. I was asking if at this point would the brain actually still show up on a scan, or would it be liquefied (ie: hollow skull).

http://bcbt.upf.edu/bcncs/files/death_unconsciousness_NatureRevNeurosci05.pdf

Long article I linked, but very informative on brain death versus vegetative state.

I agree with you Lorelei Lee, this has moved beyond ridiculous.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I know that scans have shown no brain activity and/or blood flow to the brain. I was asking if at this point would the brain actually still show up on a scan, or would it be liquefied (ie: hollow skull).

http://bcbt.upf.edu/bcncs/files/death_unconsciousness_NatureRevNeurosci05.pdf

Long article I linked, but very informative on brain death versus vegetative state.

I agree with you Lorelei Lee, this has moved beyond ridiculous.

In any event, I doubt the judge will give the family another extension beyond the 7th.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

But sunshine and I have the same question. Everyone on this board has talked about the 13 yo body starting to break down/deteriorate, etc. before the next court hearing because she is brain dead and being kept alive mechanically.

Why will she decompose (again I'm not trying to be insensitive) as such a faster rate than the woman in TX that is becoming kept "alive" because she is pregnant. The hospital there will need to keep her mechanically alive for over 10 weeks to get to a viability point where they can further assess the fetus and then decide how many weeks after that to continue if they decide they can deliver.

It makes no sense to me the difference. Both are declared brain dead. The only difference is who is fighting to keep them alive

Not everyone.

(Will answer more in depth later.)

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I like the reporter who wrote this article, unlike everyone else she makes reference to everything on the New Beginnings website:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...in-Injury-Center-in-Medford-NY-238236061.html

 

[15isto2]

The new beginnings facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/www.nbli.org
If you scroll down to the 22nd Dec there is a picture of the "nearly ready" facility!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I like the reporter who wrote this article, unlike everyone else she makes reference to everything on the New Beginnings website:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...in-Injury-Center-in-Medford-NY-238236061.html

Yeah. My mouth was agape as I was reading through the New Beginnings website, waiting to see if there was going to be someone associated with the facility who had medical expertise.

We haven't discussed this Dr. Paul Byrnes yet. Anyone have thoughts on his opinions? (For those who may not know who he is, he is mentioned in the above referenced article, and is the doctor/pediatrician the family mentions who says he believes Jahi is not dead. He apparently does not believe in the brain death criteria.)

 

[Dr_Finkelstein]

But sunshine and I have the same question. Everyone on this board has talked about the 13 yo body starting to break down/deteriorate, etc. before the next court hearing because she is brain dead and being kept alive mechanically.

Why will she decompose (again I'm not trying to be insensitive) as such a faster rate than the woman in TX that is becoming kept "alive" because she is pregnant. The hospital there will need to keep her mechanically alive for over 10 weeks to get to a viability point where they can further assess the fetus and then decide how many weeks after that to continue if they decide they can deliver.

It makes no sense to me the difference. Both are declared brain dead. The only difference is who is fighting to keep them alive

The body won't decompose in the same way - because the tissues are being kept oxygenated by the ventilator. There will be degeneration though, you just can't keep a dead body oxygenated in the same way. You can artifically oxygenate the tissues, and provide medication, but you can't replicate the complex hormone/metabolite etc levels required in order to 'live' without some brain function.

Tissue perfusion and viability will become more and more problematic - bedsores will develop and just can't 'heal' in any effective way, the risk of infection will be huge (there is a huge amount of dead tissue). It will become progressively more difficult to maintain patent IV access, which will be vital to keep this 'process' ongoing, in a living patient it is incredibly difficult to maintain IV access and provide nutrition via TPN for any prolonged length of time - in this case, and in the case in Texas you could - possiby could - get weeks but doubtful any longer.