$110,000 in Debt (college)

[LoveBWVVBR]

Yeah, I think 18-year olds KNOW that the money has to be paid back on an intellectual level . . . but -- in the way that adolescents so often know one thing and believe another at the same time -- they think it won't be a problem. The great job'll come through, mom and dad will be so pleased at graduation that they'll agree to pay it back, the new husband'll get a great job and he'll help pay it back -- it just won't be a problem.

It's a little bit like teenaged girls who get pregnant because they don't use birth control. Sure, they KNOW that it could happen, but they're convinced that it won't happen TO THEM. Borrowers KNOW they have to repay the money, but they think it won't be hard for them. It's not a rational thought process.

ITA. When I was in school I remember a lot of people taking out private student loans. One particularly irresponsible girl told me that she was just going to file bankruptcy when she graduated...guess she missed the part where bankruptcy doesn't wipe out your student loans Another girl took out like 18K/semester when I was in school. I remember being scared FOR her. She was so smart and got a great job right out of school, but that was a LOT of debt to take on. This was 15 years ago, too. Certainly there were other, less expensive, options to getting the same education, KWIM? At that age you have tunnel-vision, though. There is only ONE way to do things, and you need to do it that way right then in and there. It's just a function of being young and not having the benefit of perspective yet. Unfortunately, this was a very costly thing for the girl who wrote the article.

 

[Abbeys_mom]

Children this poor get full rides, book funds, etc. Needs based scholarships are very readily available. Plus, you can continue to get food stamps and other government aid while in college.

Having been there, done that, please allow me to clear up some of the common misconceptions.

It is not all FREE money. I had to work, I had no insurance and paid out of pocket for health care as it arose, and honestly, food stamps never occurred to me. I had to pay for a place to stay during the summer and breaks when campus was closed. I had to buy clothes, pay for my car insurance/gas/repairs (an old car that I inherited from my grandmother), and other living expenses. I did not go on spring break, I did not go out partying every weekend as my classmates did.

By graduation, I had about 80% covered, there is a part that the student must carry. I opted to live off campus my junior and senior years to better deal with breaks. I received numerous scholarships, need and merit based, from a well endowed private university. I also had a work study job for 15 hours a week in the library, and I balanced the rest working retail and working for a cleaning company at night. Pell grants, and other state and federal financial aid helped tremendously. My other option was to join the military, which was not for me.

The part of this article that was hard for ME to digest, and why I called her spoiled, is that from the beginning, she took the tone of a victim:

"I received word in June that I was only eligible for $1,500 in work study a year for financial aid. Apparently, my single mother, a New York City public school teacher, made too much money for me to qualify for more than that." To ME, she sounded as if she were entitled to more, as if that were a sarcastic statement. It set ME on edge.

"That's when I met the seductress, Sallie Mae. Sallie Mae, like a loan shark, was friendly and extremely eager to loan me the money I needed for my education; and, like a loan shark, they forgot to mention what would happen to my proverbial legs if I didn't pay up."
I disagree, Salllie Mae has helped many a student. And in my experience(s), it was made EXTREMELY clear what happened upon graduation. And that was back in the mid 90's and again just a few years ago. Both situations were similar. Heck, check out their website even today - it is made very clear what is expected.

"My parents warned me about the interest rate and the risk I was taking, and I promptly ignored their concerns because at the time what I wanted for my future was far more important than the inevitable consequences. They allowed me to assure them, the same way Sallie Mae assured me, because they too wanted to believe in the life I intended to make for myself. "
Here, I have issue with the lack of personal responsibility on both her and her parent's parts. She clearly gets it now, in 20/20 hindsight, but then we get to this:

"Sallie Mae, who did not in fact help me to restructure my interest rate, takes an additional $662 per month to cover the rest. Even though I have managed to pay my loans on time every month, to this day Sallie Mae has refused to consolidate the remaining $33,000 with the 9.75% interest rate."
I find this hard to believe, that Sallie Mae won't consolidate and work with her. There are a number of repayment and even forgiveness options if she wanted to teach and make a difference in the world that way. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but it does beg the question, do we have all the details? I look at things critically, I am not going to apologize for that.

"Was it worth it to go to my dream school? I can honestly say even with all the wonderful friends I have made and experiences I have been lucky enough to have, that it wasn't. It really wasn't." That right there is the best lesson she learned from this. Regardless of public, private, or for profit, it was a dream she could not afford. And her publishing a deeply private experience was brave. However, it is the general tone I have issue with.

"If I could say one thing about the private American Education system and how it relates to me, it is that it took someone who wanted to change the world and forced them to focus on just surviving in it." And she lost me again. No one forced her to do this, she chose it. If anything, I think we need MORE private education, not less - competition is a great thing in our society. What she neglects to differentiate is that there is a difference between for profit and private education, they are two very different things. A blanket statement like this is dangerous thinking.

JM, you did not post that you knew the author, that was deceptive. Sure, show the family, I stand by my opinions, which are just that - OPINIONS. I disagreed, and as you pointed out, it is a public forum open to comment. I do not care to be popular, I just stated my feelings.

 

[cruisnfamily]

ITA. When I was in school I remember a lot of people taking out private student loans. One particularly irresponsible girl told me that she was just going to file bankruptcy when she graduated...guess she missed the part where bankruptcy doesn't wipe out your student loans Another girl took out like 18K/semester when I was in school. I remember being scared FOR her. She was so smart and got a great job right out of school, but that was a LOT of debt to take on. This was 15 years ago, too. Certainly there were other, less expensive, options to getting the same education, KWIM? At that age you have tunnel-vision, though. There is only ONE way to do things, and you need to do it that way right then in and there. It's just a function of being young and not having the benefit of perspective yet. Unfortunately, this was a very costly thing for the girl who wrote the article.

The bolded, and especially the underlined, statements are such a perfect summary of the way my DD18's brain works about almost every single thing in her life.

 

[cruisnfamily]

Yeah, I think 18-year olds KNOW that the money has to be paid back on an intellectual level . . . but -- in the way that adolescents so often know one thing and believe another at the same time -- they think it won't be a problem. The great job'll come through, mom and dad will be so pleased at graduation that they'll agree to pay it back, the new husband'll get a great job and he'll help pay it back --it just won't be a problem.

It's a little bit like teenaged girls who get pregnant because they don't use birth control. Sure, they KNOW that it could happen, but they're convinced that it won't happen TO THEM. Borrowers KNOW they have to repay the money, but they think it won't be hard for them. It's not a rational thought process.

I absolutely agreee 100%! This is exactly the case!

 

[buckirj1]

I think any family with children should seriously look into any high school internships that might be available. A colleague's daughter started an internship with a Government agency in her junior year of high school, the agency hired her full-time after graduation, and are now paying her to go to university part time. Her future is very bright.

Any student already in college should look into internships with an eye to getting hired after graduation, and having the employer pay for grad school.

 

[Disney Doll]

I smell a spoiled rotten kid.

I was 18, inner city poor (as in government cheese, living on my grandmother's social security check, living in her house that she bought in 1948 and was the only one still standing on the block DIRT POOR) and looked at college when my grandmother died my senior year of high school.

I busted my butt in high school, got scholarships and got into my second choice, private four year university. Sallie Mae, the "Seductress" made it extremely clear exactly how much SLs cost, exactly when you repaid them, and alternatives to financing college for the amount that scholarships did not cover. I worked 40 hours a week, took a full load, and tried to avoid as much debt as possible. I was accepted into a program to study abroad but learned I would have to take out loans. As bad as I wanted to go, and as much as I thought it would change my life, I passed on it BECAUSE I COULD NOT AFFORD IT. I was not entitled to it, it hurt to see my friends going, but I was well aware of the reality of the situation.

I am sorry, but she had to go through debt counseling before they gave her the check. In 1995 when I took out my first SL, they told me EXACTLY how long it would take to repay and how much I would pay interest. I managed to get a $100k education for less thank $20k in loans.

I moved my little sister up to college in 2009. We sat through a LONG session with a one on one school counselor on financing college. She had to do the same thing, debt calculators, etc before they gave her the (small) check. She is working 30 hours a week and struggling, but has not taken out more than $8k so far, and she too is at a private performing arts college.

My bet is that Jenna stuck her spoiled head in the ground and chose not to deal with it. And now she is complaining, probably tapped out on credit, and can't finance the life style she wants. She is playing such the victim, she could not get grants, she can't get the job she dreamed of, she can't afford a car or a house, she has to work two jobs because the economy sucks, Sallie Mae won't consolidate, wah wah wah...

She needs to take some personal responsibility. She made poor choices, deal with it. Pay it off and consider it her real education.

Off my soapbox now (and I normally LOVE HuffPost too!).

Great post! I'm a a few ::ahem:: years out of college, but went to a 3 year local nursing school (total cost for 3 years = $6000) instead of one of the larger colleges, which is where I wanted to go, due to financial concerns. I then got a job working as a nurse and had my employer contribute to paying for my BSN, which I went for as I was working.

I agree...spolied kid, stupid choices.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

UF made the list at #2 for best value, "Our rankings for the best public colleges deliver a first-rate education without breaking the bank."

From Kiplinger's:

The University of Florida, second in our in-state rankings, offers a great deal regardless of financial aid. Its in-state tuition runs only $2,211. (Tuition at UF is slated to go up by as much as 15% a year over the next four years.) Florida's merit-based Bright Futures program, funded by a state lottery, currently covers 75% to 100% of tuition for in-state students who meet the academic criteria -- and most students qualify. "It's very popular," says UF president Bernard Machen. "Constituents and legislators love it."

One thing left out is tuition differential that began in 2010. Schools can charge up to 100% of the tuition as an extra cost. Once the school decides on it, it is mandatory. Thus, when we bought the tuition plan for my son last year, I bought the tuition and differential plans. The latter was actually a little bit more.

So while "tuition" might be cheap, they left out the differential. Bright Futures will no cover the differential.

Even then, when we checked VIrginia's pre-paid program, our Florida plan with differential was still cheaper. So we went with that plan while we were still FL residents.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I took a look at it and my read was that it was 'value' and # 2 in Florida. Which of course is a good start for a general degree. Nationally the school is showing #17 so overall it sounds like an excellent option for someone living in Florida.

It also looks like Kip's report is either a copy of or consistent with the US New's rankings.

Does this school have a partnership with a Community College with a guaranteed admission policy? That is something I never considered before doing my research. Also, in the case of our local CC, there is an honors program with a scholarship attached to 9 local partner colleges - American University is one of the partners.

Florida's community college system does feed automatically to the state schools. I *think* you can get into the university of your choice. College acceptance (I.e. college of nursing, college of engineering, college of business, etc within the university) is NOT guaranteed. They have set acceptance criteria. Example: one of the admission requirements for my college at UF (Journalism and Communications) was a minimum typing speed. I have no idea if that still is be case--stuff was computerized when I went. Other college might have a portfolio requirement.

So you can get into the University system automatically from a FL CC, your degree is not a guarantee.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

One thing left out is tuition differential that began in 2010. Schools can charge up to 100% of the tuition as an extra cost. Once the school decides on it, it is mandatory. Thus, when we bought the tuition plan for my son last year, I bought the tuition and differential plans. The latter was actually a little bit more.

So while "tuition" might be cheap, they left out the differential. Bright Futures will no cover the differential.

Even then, when we checked VIrginia's pre-paid program, our Florida plan with differential was still cheaper. So we went with that plan while we were still FL residents.

We also bought the differential plan for DD #2. Our older DD is grandfathered in as her plan was purchased and paid for before the differential went into effect. I assume that your older kids are also grandfathered on the differential??

Honestly I don't think that Bright Futures will exist at all when my girls go to college, but that's just my opinion.

 

[malibuconlee]

Wow, I always thought that architecture paid well I'm an engineer and I assumed that architects made about the same as engineers...maybe not though

Sorry haven't read the whole post,

However my husband is in the construction field. I know last year he had some discussions with his superiors in the company. They had told him many of the architectural firms in the area the home office is located were hanging on by a thread. Construction has been hit big in the economy and the first step in that is the design!

I'm sure she made a decent salary, but being unemployed for two years is a long time.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

The bolded, and especially the underlined, statements are such a perfect summary of the way my DD18's brain works about almost every single thing in her life.

I definitely remember what it felt like to think like that. It's just a function of brain maturity (or lack thereof) and lack of perspective. It's a crying shame that we can allow a child/family to dig themselves deep in student loan debt like the author did at that age, though. I don't know what the fail-safe could or should be in situations like that, but there should be one. No 18 year-old should be able to tank their financial security for the next 30 years with a bad decision about college/major, KWIM?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We also bought the differential plan for DD #2. Our older DD is grandfathered in as her plan was purchased and paid for before the differential went into effect. I assume that your older kids are also grandfathered on the differential??

Honestly I don't think that Bright Futures will exist at all when my girls go to college, but that's just my opinion.

I think it will be around in some form. I had it's predecessor when I graduated high school in 1993. 18 years later....


And yes, my older 2 are grandfathered in. Double bonus--all three will get in state tuition rates even if we don't move back to FL.

 

[Muushka]

I have seen destitute, nearly homeless families with $50,000 worth of school loans. Paying them off is the very last thing on their list. Soon the school loan debacle will take the same route as Fannie and Freddie. Too bad the government writes for the school loans now. We all will be paying them back because the grad can't. Just like the houses bought that shouldn't have been.

 

[disykat]

I did not go on spring break, I did not go out partying every weekend as my classmates did.

Nor did I and my parents HAD money. Nor will my children and we have money. Frankly, I consider any child that is able to spend freely while someone else is paying for their education "spoiled."

In my day, most of my friends had a budget to live by (that didn't include vacations, etc.) and jobs on every break to help with costs. The few that didn't were sort of looked at as "spoiled" by the rest of us.

I remember distinctly when several guys in my dorm had been having regular "ski weekends" decided they just wouldn't do it anymore because they realized that their reputation was suffering because people saw them as spoiled.

 

[Juliet25]

OK, I understand being 18 and idealistic. I can understand signing for loans and not really understanding what it meant in dollars and cents (although I really have a problem with her parents allowing her to sign for those loans...). What I don't understand is turning down $30,000 as a starting salary in the field you want to work in. It's called paying your dues. I graduated in 1998, and my first job paid $8.50/hour...with no benefits (stupid liberal arts degree ). I would have jumped for joy if someone offered me 30K fresh out of college. Heck, I'd jump for job NOW.

 

[MrsPete]

and lack of perspective.

Lack of perspective -- that's a good point. When you're 18, all you can see is "I want this college experience". You can't necessarily see that financing this college experience may well mean NOT being able to buy a house for a while, driving a used car, having a smaller wedding, postponing kids, or not being able to be a SAHM -- or something else that you'll ALSO want. But when you're 18 and want this college experience, you aren't necessarily thinking of these other things that'll come down the road.

In my day, most of my friends had a budget to live by (that didn't include vacations, etc.) and jobs on every break to help with costs. The few that didn't were sort of looked at as "spoiled" by the rest of us.

Yeah, I remember EVERYONE in college being careful with money. Those of us who were working to pay our own way were more careful, but even people whose parents were footing the tab watched their pennies. For example, I remember girls lending dresses around the hall for special occasions. I remember one sorority group going on a Carnival cruise as "hostesses", and all of us were amazed, thinking that it was outrageously luxurious for college students. I remember people who lived out of state who couldn't afford to go home for Thanksgiving, and they'd beg invitations from people who lived closer.

I personally went on a Spring Break trip ONCE -- I think it was junior year. We rented a cheap house at the beach and stuffed it with almost twice as many people as the owners would've approved. We cooked all our own food, and we were super-quiet and good out of fear we'd get caught. In the long run, we didn't have all that great a time. It was too crowded, and the weather was still too cold. We all agreed that it wasn't worth the saving we had to do.

In college we did go to the dollar movies just about every weekend. By the time I was a junior or senior, a few people had VCRs and we started renting movies. We rarely, rarely went out to dinner -- we couldn't afford to waste our meal plan. We went out to a certain dance club on Thursday nights when it was free admission (well, girls could get free admission every night, but we went on Thursdays 'cause we liked to go with our guy friends too), and margaritas were .75 (they were small). We'd usually have one each. We liked to go to the comedy club, but it was pretty high priced for us, so it was a rare treat. Mostly we just attended events on campus. We always had lots of fun stuff: parties or movies on various halls, speakers and concerts sponsored by various groups. Sometimes we'd go on outdoor adventure type trips sponsored by the college; we could do things like go on a one-night camping trip/whitewater rafting trip for $15-20; I worked for the group that sponsored those trips for a while, and I got to go on them for free. We could rent tents and other camping equipment from the college super-cheap; I remember the tents were $4/weekend.

 

[Sagginit]

i think one point missing is no one should have to pay that much just for an education that is basically required to get a decent job/career longterm. i say long term b/c i know older people who never went to college and as brilliant as they are, a college degree is required for promotions and they have hit a wall. likewise i know people in their late 20s who have went on to grad school b/c they need the degree to keep advancing in their field.

i got loans from lil miss innocent sallie mae and they were not very specific when i had to give my consent/agreement. it basically went do you want this money and you have to pay it back ok? i dont think anyone really explained the concept of interest and that you would end up paying them at least twice of what they gave you. sallie mae is trying to get all the money they can from me. i can lower payments online, defer payments, heck even apply for more loans if i wanted. i have to send in a letter with a check by mail to make an additional payment and need to call and discuss it with them to increase my payments as they lower them on a regular baisis.

i went private and believe it or not they were offering more to me than state schools. even with scholarships, financial aid based on a single mother, and federal loans i had to get private loans. i was in the top 6% of my class and no one was offering me a full ride, my friend was number 3 in our class and went to state school and still had to loan it. college is just toooooo expensive to maintain this system. for me loans under 45K was the lesser of two evils. to work and commute to a state school while in school would have prolly cost just as much when you factor in buying a car, insurance, gas, work expenses (clothes, supplies etc), loss of the private scholarships from the private school, and loss of aid for the increase in income. yes she made a bad choice, but really, at that age they don't legally let you drink or gamble but they loan you that much? a student loan seems to be the biggest gamble you make in this economy.

 

[englishteacha]

I was lucky to attend an excellent state school and was blessed to get many scholarships to cover my costs. We were "poor" though I always had plenty to eat and a warm house, my parents were unable to help me pay for school. I graduated with $1000 in student loan debt, and because my state school is top in the nation for teacher education (and I graduated with honors), I got a job right off. A friend went to a fancy private college to get an education degree, graduated with $80K in loans, and couldn't get a teaching job so she's going to grad school and racking up more debt. I don't know what she'll do when she finishes grad school, because she'll be in about $130K, and teacher's salaries, even with a master's, aren't huge. I'm finishing my master's now, and consider myself lucky to teach in a school district willing to help me pay for it. State schools aren't a bad thing!

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I am a little confused as to why the financial aid was awarded based on the salary of her poor single mother, and yet later on she seems to have two parents, albeit separated or divorced.

 

[allison443]

I am a little confused as to why the financial aid was awarded based on the salary of her poor single mother, and yet later on she seems to have two parents, albeit separated or divorced.

I noticed that too...American Unversity is one of the schools that looks at both parents' income, even if they're divorced...also it sounds like the student herself was working (while she attended the community college) so that income was added into the mix as well. Yet apparently someone else was supposed to pay for her college? Did they never save anything for college? (I did see that the parents later agreed to pay 10K a year for her room and board).
Even when she made the smart decision to go to community college for two years, wasn't there any discussion in the family of how American would be paid for?