Your thoughts on DVC

[chalee94]

I think this thread has finally hit upon the crux of the issue and really its no different than getting 10 day tickets at a minimal cost over 3 days. The reason they can 'afford' to offer this savings is that it triggers even more spending from its dedicated owners, get people returning on years they wouldnt otherwise and guarantees a level of commitment to their product. I have no problems with that approach, it can be mutually beneficial, if like was previously pointed out, you take all this into account and know how it can benefit you.

so...disney makes a solid profit on DVC...while you still wind up paying less than you would without DVC...

i think you may have something there.

That said, in our situation we always need two rooms on vacation, have made taking a yearly vacation a priority and consider Orlando a prime destination to do that in. For those reasons I think that we probably fit their target demo, and I look forward to arming myself with information before taking one of their tours.

the great thing about DVC and the DIS is that information is always within a few mouse clicks. the DVC forums have a link to point charts for the different resorts at the top of the page along with a link to current resales if you'd like to see what the ballpark prices are at the individual resorts (closing costs for those run from $300-600ish depending on the size of the contract.) one helpful DISer maintains a link to DVC annual dues information if you want to include those in your calculation. for nonfinancial information, it's easy to search for photos and reviews of resorts to get a better idea what to expect. asking questions (and searching old threads) on the DVC boards is also helpful...you can quickly wind up knowing more than your guide on the tour...

 

[girt25]

You're right - It is $109 a night. I went in May this year (duh).

So basically we can figure, variables aside, purchasing DVC upfront and staying at a Value resort will pretty much cost about the same over time? Fair enough?

I'll admit - If I have a spare $20,000, I'd seriously consider it then. Not having a spare $20,000, I'll have to decline.

If i were in your shoes, I probably wouldn't do it, even with 20k in hand. 18 -20 years is too long of a time to break even. The numbers everyone's tossing around is pure speculation, and i'd be mildly surprised if either the value resort cost or the annual dues cost is all that close to reality come year 15, or even year 10.

Even if you don't finance a penny of the DVC purchase, it's still costing some interest vs. just tossing it into mortgages or car payment.

 

[girt25]

Is there any tax on the purchase price of DVC?

Nope, but I did get decent percentage back in rewards by putting it on a credit card.

 

[girt25]

I have been reading this thread with interest, and I am curious about the possible pressures on DVC members that might impact what they say about DVC. Please understand that I am in no way implying that anyone here is being less than truthful -- I'm just curious about the contingencies at play here (I'm a psychology grad student/university instructor, so human behavior always interests me ).

To use the language of psychology, are current DVC owners rewarded or punished for encouraging others to join? My uninformed guess is that they would be punished, because more members equals more people competing with them for spots at their favorite DVC resorts. Is there a financial incentive to the group for getting new members (e.g., do dues go down or anything if there are more people to share them?)

I'm just curious

I think it's simple, You'll see many DVC members speak (type) in favor of DVC because.. The DVC owners in general, and DVC owners who are on these boards in particular, are people who have weighed all of these options, crunched the numbers, and decided in favor of purchasing the DVC.

So the conversation going on right now is one that i'm sure most DVC owners has had BEFORE they bought. Assuming most folks aren't taking this purchase lightly. IMHO, it doesn't reward, punish or comfort the DVC owners, they're just sharing the conclusion they have reached.

 

[kend58]

I have been reading this thread and others and I find the examples used here interesting.

I undertook to prepare for myself a Apples to Apples comparison.

AKL Deluxe Savanna view Bunk bed room for 7 nights vs AKV 2 bedroom for 7 nights

I have assumed either 1 week in July or 1 week at Christmas Holiday.

I have assumed that both DVC dues and WDW rack rates will increase at 0.04595 per year. [This is the historical growth rate for DVC dues at OKW over it’s initial 15 years of existence I had no similar data for Rack Rates]

In order to simplify the analysis I have chosen to ignore financing costs, return on capital and other opportunity costs as well as both tangible and intangible DVC memberships perks. While those factors are relevant in an economic analysis of DVC membership IMHO these are matters which have so many permutations that including them only clouds the issue. I believe anyone who is considering a DVC purchase should expand on my basic analysis as needed to include the relevant factors based on their own actual acquisition costs and point & benefit utilization plans.

For a week in July I get break even on the DVC expenditure in:
2031 against AP discounted rates
2024 against AAA discounted rates
2021 for Rack rates

For Holiday season I get breakeven occurring in:
2026 against AAA discounted rates
2023 against rack rates.

FWIW I have read this thread with some interest I am not a DVC member, I do travel to WDW at least every two or three years, this year we will be at WDW 3 times in 1 year and I own an offsite TS.

I am considering acquiring a DVC membership but at this time I am still undecided.

 

[pilferk]

I have been reading this thread and others and I find the examples used here interesting.

I undertook to prepare for myself a Apples to Apples comparison.

AKL Deluxe Savanna view Bunk bed room for 7 nights vs AKV 2 bedroom for 7 nights

I have assumed either 1 week in July or 1 week at Christmas Holiday.

I have assumed that both DVC dues and WDW rack rates will increase at 0.04595 per year. [This is the historical growth rate for DVC dues at OKW over it’s initial 15 years of existence I had no similar data for Rack Rates]

In order to simplify the analysis I have chosen to ignore financing costs, return on capital and other opportunity costs as well as both tangible and intangible DVC memberships perks. While those factors are relevant in an economic analysis of DVC membership IMHO these are matters which have so many permutations that including them only clouds the issue. I believe anyone who is considering a DVC purchase should expand on my basic analysis as needed to include the relevant factors based on their own actual acquisition costs and point & benefit utilization plans.

For a week in July I get break even on the DVC expenditure in:
2031 against AP discounted rates
2024 against AAA discounted rates
2021 for Rack rates

For Holiday season I get breakeven occurring in:
2026 against AAA discounted rates
2023 against rack rates.

FWIW I have read this thread with some interest I am not a DVC member, I do travel to WDW at least every two or three years, this year we will be at WDW 3 times in 1 year and I own an offsite TS.

I am considering acquiring a DVC membership but at this time I am still undecided.

Deluxe Savannah view to 2 BR isn't, IMHO, an "fair" apples to apples comparison. Why?

Because the Deluxe Savannah view rooms sleeps (or slept...we'll get to that in a minute) 5. That 2BR sleeps 9 at AKV (a 1BR sleeps 5, studio sleeps 4). Pretty drastic difference....the 2 BR essentially is the size of 3 (sq footage wise), and has the sleeping capacity of 2, of those Deluxe rooms.

Also note: the Deluxe rooms are going away. Yes, there are rates for them now...but they're the rooms being converted. So staying in them won't be an option in even a year.

Comparing a 1BR AKV Savannah view (268 pts in July for 1 week) to rack rate AKL Deluxe Savannah view with bunkbed (375 per night rack rate + 12% tax in July) seems more "apples to apples" (though even that's not perfect...much more space,full kitchen, private Master Bedroom, etc) to me.

Using those number, break even is at between 11 and 12 years.

 

[boomhauer]

Am I the only weird one that prefers the feel and look of the Value Resorts to the DVC Resorts?

 

[kend58]

Deluxe Savannah view to 2 BR isn't, IMHO, an "fair" apples to apples comparison. Why?

Because the Deluxe Savannah view rooms sleeps (or slept...we'll get to that in a minute) 5. That 2BR sleeps 9 at AKV (a 1BR sleeps 5, studio sleeps 4). Pretty drastic difference....the 2 BR essentially is the size of 3 (sq footage wise), and has the sleeping capacity of 2, of those Deluxe rooms.

Also note: the Deluxe rooms are going away. Yes, there are rates for them now...but they're the rooms being converted. So staying in them won't be an option in even a year.

Comparing a 1BR AKV Savannah view (268 pts in July for 1 week) to rack rate AKL Deluxe Savannah view with bunkbed (375 per night rack rate + 12% tax in July) seems more "apples to apples" (though even that's not perfect...much more space,full kitchen, private Master Bedroom, etc) to me.

Using those number, break even is at between 11 and 12 years.

I thought about comparing to a 1 bedroom but I wouldn't stay in a 1 bedroom with my family as we want the seperate sleeping areas and the LV so I used the two bedroom as that is the acomadation I would be seeking at AKV. I thought the AKL room I selected came with the bunkbeds seperated from the other areas.

I agree with your point that room type is one of the important factors in making a DVC analysis. I chose these two types because they are what I would be trying to book for my family. Although it is likely based on your comments that after a day or two we would begin to feel cramped in the AKL room.

 

[pilferk]

I thought about comparing to a 1 bedroom but I wouldn't stay in a 1 bedroom with my family as we want the seperate sleeping areas and the LV so I used the two bedroom as that is the acomadation I would be seeking at AKV. I thought the AKL room I selected came with the bunkbeds seperated from the other areas.

I agree with your point that room type is one of the important factors in making a DVC analysis. I chose these two types because they are what I would be trying to book for my family. Although it is likely based on your comments that after a day or two we would begin to feel cramped in the AKL room.

The bunkbeds aren't in a seperate area or room....they're right next to the queen sized bed you'd be sleeping in. Most of the deluxe rooms have 2 Queens, and a daybed. The bunkbed rooms simply swap one of the queens for bunkbeds (ideal if siblings don't really want to share a bed).

Essentially, to get what you want, you'd need to book TWO rooms at AKL (standard would work), request connecting rooms, and hope you'd get that request satisfied.

In addition, I'm not sure what your family makeup is, but...YOU would get a seperate sleeping area from the kids in a 1BR (not in a studio). There is a master bedroom with kingsized bed which sleeps 2 of the 5. Two more sleep on a (very comfortable) pull out couch, and 1 more sleeps on a (also very comfortable) pull out chair...both located in the living room area. At Jambo House (which is what's currently open) you'd share a bathroom, but in the new building (Kidani) you'd have 2 Bathrooms.

I think you're thinking that a 1BR is actually a studio...and it's not. The "studio" set up is the one more like a regular hotel room.

 

[pilferk]

Am I the only weird one that prefers the feel and look of the Value Resorts to the DVC Resorts?

I doubt you're the ONLY one. I'm sure there are others out there.

But I'd suspect that, all things being equal, if you gave someone the choice of AS Music to, say, BCV, BWV, AKV, VWL, etc....that a LOT of people would choose the deluxe facility over the value....not only for the "look"/theme, but for the amenities they provide. Again, we're talking strictly on preference.....costs not entering into the equation at all.

I mean, lets face it...no matter what you pay (so this goes to the "cost isn't a factor" reasoning), you can't wake up, walk out of your value room onto your balcony, and see animals walking around. Or have a boardwalk to play at nightly. Or have a mini-waterpark around the corner from your room. Or have a theme park in walking/boating distance from your room Nor can you visit a full service restaurant AT your resort. Nor do you have a gym to work out at. There's LOTS of "stuff" the deluxes have, that values don't, that can make them more appealing to some people.

But if the values are what floats your boat, that's what really matters. That's why the options WDW provides are nice.

 

[salmoneous]

Am I the only weird one that prefers the feel and look of the Value Resorts to the DVC Resorts?

I prefer the themeing at the values to those at most DVC resorts (VWL being the exception). But, once you get beyone the themeing, the DVC resorts have some pretty serious advantages

- the extra space is key. Once your kids are older, I suspect you'll see what I mean

- the ability to upgrade to 1BR and 2BR

- balconys

- location

 

[Sammie]

Truly as I said earlier in this thread it is a personal vacation style that determines if DVC is right for you and saves your money. For us it does.

We don't want or would be comfortable in a room with 2 double beds. We want queen and king size beds, large spacious bathrooms, a kitchen, we love to cook breakfast in the room before we head out and we love having a full size frig for leftovers and drinks and snacks. We only eat breakfast in the room as we get the Dining Plan.

We love having a living area that is not full of beds and definitely we love having 2 full size bathrooms. We really like the fact that some can go to bed and others can stay up in the living area or the balcony and not disturb the others. This is wonderful when you have young children in the group.

Our work lives are very hectic, we want our vacations not to be. We don't want to take turns in the bath or rush because someone else is waiting. We love having the laundry in the room, so we can put in a load of clothes while we go to the park and then throw them in the dryer when we come back to nap. We like having 3 TVs. After going to the parks for over 25 years we spend alot of time at our resort. We love the option of the fact that the teens in the family can bring a friend and there is plenty of room. We love that we can have family reunions and no one pays for the stay.

As to the savings, our points cost us $18,000 when we bought. A 2 bedroom villa at SSR during the summer when we go would cost us $4800. So in less than 4 years we had covered our buy in cost. Our dues run about $1250 a year so after that 4 years is up; you can see how much we are saving each summer on our accommidations. That comes to about $156 per day for our trip and never are you going to see that price even with a discount on a 2 bedroom villa.

So it truly depends on what you want, if values suit, then no DVC is never going to be a good match. But if your vacation wants are similiar to ours, then yes it can save you money.

Also we truly intend to use our vacation points to travel to other destinations other than Disney such as Hawaii, the Carribbean and Europe.

It has been a very good match for us, but again it depends on what you want in a vacation.

 

[girt25]

I thought about comparing to a 1 bedroom but I wouldn't stay in a 1 bedroom with my family as we want the seperate sleeping areas and the LV so I used the two bedroom as that is the acomadation I would be seeking at AKV. I thought the AKL room I selected came with the bunkbeds seperated from the other areas.

I agree with your point that room type is one of the important factors in making a DVC analysis. I chose these two types because they are what I would be trying to book for my family. Although it is likely based on your comments that after a day or two we would begin to feel cramped in the AKL room.

AKV room layouts..

studio -- deluxe bunk bed room pretty much replaces couch and table for bunk beds

1br

2br

so.. bunk bed AKL room is a pretty far cry from 2br AKV villa

 

[kend58]

The bunkbeds aren't in a seperate area or room....they're right next to the queen sized bed you'd be sleeping in. Most of the deluxe rooms have 2 Queens, and a daybed. The bunkbed rooms simply swap one of the queens for bunkbeds (ideal if siblings don't really want to share a bed).

Essentially, to get what you want, you'd need to book TWO rooms at AKL (standard would work), request connecting rooms, and hope you'd get that request satisfied.

In addition, I'm not sure what your family makeup is, but...YOU would get a seperate sleeping area from the kids in a 1BR (not in a studio). There is a master bedroom with kingsized bed which sleeps 2 of the 5. Two more sleep on a (very comfortable) pull out couch, and 1 more sleeps on a (also very comfortable) pull out chair...both located in the living room area. At Jambo House (which is what's currently open) you'd share a bathroom, but in the new building (Kidani) you'd have 2 Bathrooms.

I think you're thinking that a 1BR is actually a studio...and it's not. The "studio" set up is the one more like a regular hotel room.

Adjusting for Studio points I get 2015 to 2018 for break even
On a 1 bedroom points I get 2016 to 2021

Comparing 2 bedroom against two rooms at AKL I get break even in 2013 or 14

I guess I was confusing the AKL deluxe bunkbed cofiguration with the ASmu family suite configuration and that was the flaw in my accomadations style logic. Obviously if I was planning on renting two rooms at AKL (or equivalent rooms at other deluxes) on a recurring basis (next 8 to 10 years or so) the comparison would have me buying DVC today so I could start recovering my costs on our next trip.

My cast is spoiled and I know who did it was me my kids would now never chose not to have at least two seperated sleeping areas plus a living area while we are on vacation. I would need a 2 bedroom or a 1 bedroom and a studio for my 4 family members at this stage in our lives. Thats what drove us to actually use our TS in Orlando this last year for a WDW trip two rooms (even at a value resort) gets pricey at the holidays. That last trip and staying offsite again is what has me looking so hard at DVC I want the flexibility of onsite (some of us are up early and want to be at the parks at RD, others like sleeping in and joining up later in the day and as the driver I played taxi service all week) But we desire the size and style of accomadations the DVC resorts offer and through CRO DVC 2 bedrooms are IMHO way to pricey so here I am analyzing DVC membership / purchase.

 

[minnie61650]

Am I the only weird one that prefers the feel and look of the Value Resorts to the DVC Resorts?

No, I also prefer the values by far.

I have no desire what so ever to stay at DVC unless.........
A DVC at the CR is built.
Then and only then would I buy a DVC contract.
It is the idea of a monorail DVC that totally excites me.


It really does not make financial sence for me since...

1. I need a HA room with roll in shower so I always get a King bed at ASMu

2. I love the theming at the value resorts.
I feel surrounded by Disney when I stay there.


3. My children are all grown and I would prefer completely seperate rooms ( no shared 2 bedrooms or GV for us) if any of them travel with me.

4. I enjoy staying in a hotel room over a timeshare type room.

5. I love daily housekeeping.

6. I would need to pay for daily mousekeeping or at least several towel pacs
since I do not do laundry when I travel. I either pack enough to last or I send it out.

7. I am 57 and DH is 62 so I do not know how many more yearly trips to Disney we will enjoy in the future.

 

[kend58]

AKV room layouts..

studio -- deluxe bunk bed room pretty much replaces couch and table for bunk beds

1br

2br

so.. bunk bed AKL room is a pretty far cry from 2br AKV villa

Yikes I said after a day or two but we would never make it past the doorway I really overestimated what they were offering in that room style.

thanks for posting the room layout diagrams

 

[pilferk]

Adjusting for Studio points I get 2015 to 2018 for break even
On a 1 bedroom points I get 2016 to 2021


Comparing 2 bedroom against two rooms at AKL I get break even in 2013 or 14

Yup, that's pretty much what I get, too.

I guess I was confusing the AKL deluxe bunkbed cofiguration with the ASmu family suite configuration and that was the flaw in my accomadations style logic. Obviously if I was planning on renting two rooms at AKL (or equivalent rooms at other deluxes) on a recurring basis (next 8 to 10 years or so) the comparison would have me buying DVC today so I could start recovering my costs on our next trip.

Yeah, the two room things would make (as you saw) DVC a pretty overwhelming deal.

I can certainly understand the confusion on room types, too. There's so many...and it's tough to actually make things even CLOSE to apples to apples sometimes.

My cast is spoiled and I know who did it was me my kids would now never chose not to have at least two seperated sleeping areas plus a living area while we are on vacation. I would need a 2 bedroom or a 1 bedroom and a studio for my 4 family members at this stage in our lives. Thats what drove us to actually use our TS in Orlando this last year for a WDW trip two rooms (even at a value resort) gets pricey at the holidays. That last trip and staying offsite again is what has me looking so hard at DVC I want the flexibility of onsite (some of us are up early and want to be at the parks at RD, others like sleeping in and joining up later in the day and as the driver I played taxi service all week) But we desire the size and style of accomadations the DVC resorts offer and through CRO DVC 2 bedrooms are IMHO way to pricey so here I am analyzing DVC membership / purchase.

I think you've got a good handle on the numbers...and I completely see your reasoning. As the kids get older, we'll likely adopt the same bent (2BR) for convenience (rather than cost savings) sake. Give the "girls" their own room and bathroom, give my son the "livingroom" as his room (and his own bathroom at Kidani) and my wife and I can stake out OUR own space, too. For now (and probably for the next 5 or 6 years, at least), 1 BR's "work" for us...much better than almost any other room type.

We get privacy, the kids can go to bed (they're 2 years apart, so "bed times" are still pretty close together), and my wife and I can hang out in the MB, with a TV, and our own balcony to sit out on. It's a nice set up for us.

 

[pilferk]

No, I also prefer the values by far.

I have no desire what so ever to stay at DVC unless.........
A DVC at the CR is built.
Then and only then would I buy a DVC contract.
It is the idea of a monorail DVC that totally excites me.


It really does not make financial sence for me since...

1. I need a HA room with roll in shower so I always get a King bed at ASMu

2. I love the theming at the value resorts.
I feel surrounded by Disney when I stay there.


3. My children are all grown and I would prefer completely seperate rooms ( no shared 2 bedrooms or GV for us) if any of them travel with me.

4. I enjoy staying in a hotel room over a timeshare type room.

5. I love daily housekeeping.

6. I would need to pay for daily mousekeeping or at least several towel pacs
since I do not do laundry when I travel. I either pack enough to last or I send it out.

7. I am 57 and DH is 62 so I do not know how many more yearly trips to Disney we will enjoy in the future.

It's funny Linda...you're exactly (and I mean by name) who I think of when I think "DVC isn't right for everyone".

I LOVE how you LOVE the All Stars. I know, it's sappy, but I enjoy seeing your posts concerning the AS, the AS Family Suites, etc. We really have some good memories of those resorts too. It's so obvious how happy you are, how excited you are, and how much you enjoy the All Stars. I think that's great...and I would NEVER, EVER suggest DVC for you because, quite frankly, it doesn't sound like a good fit.

Again, one of the reasons many of us say "It's not for everyone".

 

[kend58]

I think you've got a good handle on the numbers...and I completely see your reasoning. As the kids get older, we'll likely adopt the same bent (2BR) for convenience (rather than cost savings) sake. Give the "girls" their own room and bathroom, give my son the "livingroom" as his room (and his own bathroom at Kidani) and my wife and I can stake out OUR own space, too. For now (and probably for the next 5 or 6 years, at least), 1 BR's "work" for us...much better than almost any other room type.

We get privacy, the kids can go to bed (they're 2 years apart, so "bed times" are still pretty close together), and my wife and I can hang out in the MB, with a TV, and our own balcony to sit out on. It's a nice set up for us.

Our vacation style has changed over time we used to be fine in 1 room long ago now, and then two connecting rooms or a family suite a few trips back but I fear those days are behind us. Based on what I have read the flexibility provided by the DVC point system will ease the pain of these changes (but I think aging kids may be a major factor in add-on-itis) .

 

[Deb & Bill]

...We get privacy, the kids can go to bed (they're 2 years apart, so "bed times" are still pretty close together), and my wife and I can hang out in the MB, with a TV, and our own balcony to sit out on. It's a nice set up for us.

Not all the master bedrooms have a balcony attached. Some only have one off the living room.