Your thoughts on DVC

[DVC Grammy]

Because the only resort I want to buy would be DVC at CR if the rumor is true.
I have been waiting for 15 years for Disney to build a DVC at a monorail resort.
I want to buy DVC at CR as soon as Disney opens the sale to the public.

Would it be possible for me to buy (2) 80 point contracts from Disney?

IIRC, as a new member, you'd have to buy a contract for the minimum (currently 160 pts). The only way to buy 2 80-pt contracts would be as an existing member (if you already owned DVC through a previous purchase, whether through resale or Disney).

 

[pilferk]

Because the only resort I want to buy would be DVC at CR if the rumor is true.
I have been waiting for 15 years for Disney to build a DVC at a monorail resort.
I want to buy DVC at CR as soon as Disney opens the sale to the public.

Would it be possible for me to buy (2) 80 point contracts from Disney?

I'm not sure. I THOUGHT you could buy in any combination so long as it totaled 160, but....honestly, I've never really looked into it because we wanted MORE than that point total....and didn't need to split it up.

Still, going back to boom's comparison.....160 points isn't going to run you 2500 a year in dues (or get you 15 days in anything during the holidays). My interest (as a numbers geek) is just making sure we're making like comparisons. What conclusion is drawn from those is going to depend on each person's situation.

Nobody knows what CRV's dues will be, obviously, but I think it's safe to assume they'll be SOMEWHERE in the ballpark of the dues out there for current offerings...maybe, possibly a bit out in left field ($5+ per point) but not too far off from what we see now.

FYI: I think we're in the same boat you are...as soon as CRV is offered to DVC members (who often get a few weeks exclusivity on points) we're going to do an add on...maybe only 75 points or so...but something.

 

[boomhauer]

In boom's direct comparison to DebandBill's dues (2500 per year) and points (about 500), you factor in the higher room rate at the Values and mods for the same time of year.

Here's a decent way to base upon Deb and Bill's scenario. They have 500 points, and pay $2,500 a year in dues. 500 points would get you 34 nights a year at AKL Villas. I use that since that's the one for sale right now. I'm also just using July for the example, and inclusing weekends as well.

So, let's take the $2,500 and see what that will be over 20 years:

2500
2600
2704
2812
2925
3042
3163
3290
3421
3558
3701
3849
4003
4163
4329
4502
4682
4870
5065
5267

So, dues alone = $74,446.
Purchase price of 500 points x $104 per point = $52,000.

So, without financing the purchase price, you're talking $126,446 over 20 years.

Now, let's take the current nightly rate at Values of $99 per night, times 34 nights a year and adjust year to year:

3366
3501
3641
3786
3938
4095
4259
4429
4607
4791
4983
5182
5389
5605
5829
6062
6304
6557
6819
7092

That would bring you to $100,235.

So, you'd be spending $26,211 more with DVC. Again, this doesn't include finance charges and doesn't include discounts off room only stays.

Again, as you said, it's not apples to apples. It's Value vs. DVC. But you are in fact spending more with DVC based on those numbers.

As for moderate, it'd obviously be alot closer. The only way to get a good idea would be to factor in finance charges, which is hard to do since people vary how long they finance for.

I'm also not sure if those numbers are correct, meaning 500 points would equal $2,500 a year in dues. Does anyone know what the current price is for dues based on each point at AKLVillas?

 

[pilferk]

Here's a decent way to base upon Deb and Bill's scenario. They have 500 points, and pay $2,500 a year in dues. 500 points would get you 34 nights a year at AKL Villas. I use that since that's the one for sale right now. I'm also just using July for the example, and inclusing weekends as well.

So, let's take the $2,500 and see what that will be over 20 years:

2500
2600
2704
2812
2925
3042
3163
3290
3421
3558
3701
3849
4003
4163
4329
4502
4682
4870
5065
5267

So, dues alone = $74,446.
Purchase price of 500 points x $104 per point = $52,000.

So, without financing the purchase price, you're talking $126,446 over 20 years.

Now, let's take the current nightly rate at Values of $99 per night, times 34 nights a year and adjust year to year:

3366
3501
3641
3786
3938
4095
4259
4429
4607
4791
4983
5182
5389
5605
5829
6062
6304
6557
6819
7092

That would bring you to $100,235.

So, you'd be spending $26,211 more with DVC. Again, this doesn't include finance charges and doesn't include discounts off room only stays.

Again, as you said, it's not apples to apples. It's Value vs. DVC. But you are in fact spending more with DVC based on those numbers.

As for moderate, it'd obviously be alot closer. The only way to get a good idea would be to factor in finance charges, which is hard to do since people vary how long they finance for.

I'm also not sure if those numbers are correct, meaning 500 points would equal $2,500 a year in dues. Does anyone know what the current price is for dues based on each point at AKLVillas?

Dues at AKL: 4.62 per point, so 500 points would be 2310.

Rate at Values in JULY (where you're mapping out points use): $109 per night + 12% tax.

Purchase price at AKV is actually $96 per point (unless you take the dev points over the discount, but the fact is...they can be HAD for $96 per point). Which would make purchase price 48000.

At 20 years, that puts you at 137247.50 for the values, and 116787.40 for DVC.

The "break even" occurred right around 16 years. Which, I agree, probably makes DVC a not so great choice for those willing to stay in values every year.

 

[boomhauer]

Dues at AKL: 4.62 per point, so 500 points would be 2310.

Rate at Values in JULY (where you're mapping out points use): $109 per night.

At 20 years, that puts you at 122542.40 for the values, and 116787.40 for DVC.

I stayed at All Star Movies and paid only $99 per night. Actually, I only paid $74 per night with a discount, but $99 was the regular rate.

Does the $116,787 for DVC include finance charges?

Let's use September (lowest time of the year).

At curent value rates of $74 per night, over 20 years, you would spend $105,773.

 

[pilferk]

I stayed at All Star Movies and paid only $99 per night. Actually, I only paid $74 per night with a discount, but $99 was the regular rate.

Does the $116,787 for DVC include finance charges?

You might have paid $99 per night, but it was discounted, or the rates have gone up. Rack rate for July is $109 per night. You said your "figuring" was ignoring room discounts. Every source I can find (allears, wdwinfo, Disney's own web site) lists the rate at $109 per night for 2007.

No, the 116787, like you, did not take into account finance charges. I think we've covered the fact that financing DVC significantly lessens it's "value", especially if you finance at the longer terms or the higher rates.

 

[girt25]

EDIT: pilferk beat me to it but..

Here's a decent way to base upon Deb and Bill's scenario. They have 500 points, and pay $2,500 a year in dues. 500 points would get you 34 nights a year at AKL Villas. I use that since that's the one for sale right now. I'm also just using July for the example, and inclusing weekends as well.

Taking actual dues on 500 points..
2310
2402.4
2498.496
2598.43584
2702.373274
2810.468205
2922.886933
3039.80241
3161.394506
3287.850287
3419.364298
3556.13887
3698.384425
3846.319802
4000.172594
4160.179498
4326.586678
4499.650145
4679.636151
4866.821597

68787.36151

Purchase price of 500 points x $104 per point = $52,000.

nobody buying over 100 points is paying 104.

actual upfront cost would be 48000

for a total of 116787.36 over 20 years

Now, let's take the current nightly rate at Values of $99 per night, times 34 nights a year and adjust year to year

July room rates are 109, but lets assume you get the AAA type rate every night and brings it down to 99... but lets add room tax to that 99 a night

3769.92
3920.7168
4077.545472
4240.647291
4410.273183
4586.68411
4770.151474
4960.957533
5159.395835
5365.771668
5580.402535
5803.618636
6035.763381
6277.193917
6528.281673
6789.41294
7060.989458
7343.429036
7637.166198
7942.652846

total: 112260.974



So DVC is marginally more costly if you ONLY stay in value rooms.

But at the end of those 20 years. you still have 500 DVC points, I bet you can get more then 4000 for those if you choose to sell.

 

[pilferk]

Just to throw this out there, there's other things we're not taking into account, though I'm not sure their effect would be anything really noteworthy:

If you were staying on property for 30-ish days a year, I'm assuming you'd buy an AP...it'd be downright dumb not to...so there is a marginal discount on AP's and PAP's for DVC owners. That's a value add.

You MIGHT (check with your tax preparer) get to write off the property tax piece of your dues.

You also MIGHT (check with your tax preparer) get to write off any interest on your loan IF you financed through Disney.

Again, marginal things to note.....but things to keep in mind at least.

 

[boomhauer]

You might have paid $99 per night, but it was discounted, or the rates have gone up. Rack rate for July is $109 per night. You said your "figuring" was ignoring room discounts. Every source I can find (allears, wdwinfo, Disney's own web site) lists the rate at $109 per night for 2007.

No, the 116787, like you, did not take into account finance charges. I think we've covered the fact that financing DVC significantly lessens it's "value", especially if you finance at the longer terms or the higher rates.

You're right - It is $109 a night. I went in May this year (duh).

So basically we can figure, variables aside, purchasing DVC upfront and staying at a Value resort will pretty much cost about the same over time? Fair enough?

I'll admit - If I have a spare $20,000, I'd seriously consider it then. Not having a spare $20,000, I'll have to decline.

 

[pilferk]

I stayed at All Star Movies and paid only $99 per night. Actually, I only paid $74 per night with a discount, but $99 was the regular rate.

Does the $116,787 for DVC include finance charges?

Let's use September (lowest time of the year).

At curent value rates of $74 per night, over 20 years, you would spend $105,773.

Every source I can find lists the rates at $82 per night for 2007 + 12% tax.

500 points gets you 42 nights in September (yes, I know..there's only 30...but for comparisons sake).

Values = 127,544.

DVC still at 116787.

Break even at 18 years.

 

[boomhauer]

Every source I can find lists the rates at $82 per night for 2007 + 12% tax.

500 points gets you 42 nights in September (yes, I know..there's only 30...but for comparisons sake).

Values = 127,544.

DVC still at 116787.

Break even at 18 years.

Is there any tax on the purchase price of DVC?

 

[mom2rb]

I did finance through Disney. I do write off the interest every year on my taxes. I also write off part of my dues every year.

In September I am taking nine people to AKV,for five nights. I am getting a Savannah View, two bedroom. I am staying over the weekend. The actual cost to me is $1386, the actual cost of the room to rent is $3050.

The biggest reason I bought DVC is that I hate sharing a room with my kids on vacation. The first time I went to DW with my boys, I stayed at Contemporary, I was miserable. When the boys needed to nap and I was stuck in a dark room, YUCK! I knew I want to go back to DW so I bought into DVC. Since then, I have taken five trips and many family members to DW.

I have also rented out points to pay for my air fare and when my air conditioner broke. It has been a good thing for my family.

 

[pilferk]

You're right - It is $109 a night. I went in May this year (duh).

So basically we can figure, variables aside, purchasing DVC upfront and staying at a Value resort will pretty much cost about the same over time? Fair enough?

I'll admit - If I have a spare $20,000, I'd seriously consider it then. Not having a spare $20,000, I'll have to decline.

Over 20 years, yup...I'd say they're roughly equal. Over 50, DVC seems to win, hands down. That's looking at it strictly as a pre-paid vacation program (which it is) and not an "investment" (which it might turn out to be in 20 years, but it might not...so best not to consider it one).

That's exactly why people say "If you stay in values, are happy in a value, will always want to stay in a value...DVC is probably not for you".

And, again, if you have to finance over a long term, or pay a high interest rate, DVC might not be for you....because your "cost of credit" is going to reduce the value of DVC for you.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a perfect fit for everyone. It's definitely not. And every person has to consider ALL the different factors, cost included, to see if it's a good fit for them. As I've said, I agree with you....it's probably NOT ideal for you, and your situation.

So long as we're starting from the same jumping off point, I've no problem with anyone coming to that conclusion.

 

[mom2rb]

Is there any tax on the purchase price of DVC?

No.

 

[pilferk]

Is there any tax on the purchase price of DVC?

Nope.

Property taxes every year, but that's rolled into your dues (and potentially a write off for some people...check with your tax preparer...)

 

[boomhauer]

Over 20 years, yup...I'd say they're roughly equal. Over 50, DVC seems to win, hands down.

I didn't think DVC was good for that long.

I think a big variable in why we think so differently (not a bad thing) is that being an AP holder, in 7 of my last 8 trips, I've gotten an AP discount on the room. Could have been 8 of 8, but I chose to stay at ASMovies instead of Pop and the discounts weren't available for AS. I've saved on average about $250 on each of those trips. I saved another $200 next week at Port Orleans. That's an additional $2,000 right out of the gate. That's alot of money.

DVC may allow this as well, but with an AP, you also can get the Disney Dining Experience which saves us a couple hundred bucks every trip. Gets you discounts on souveniers. All that stuff adds up.

 

[mom2rb]

My family buys APs, we use the DVC discount and get $100 off each pass.

 

[starbox]

I didn't think DVC was good for that long.

I think a big variable in why we think so differently (not a bad thing) is that being an AP holder, in 7 of my last 8 trips, I've gotten an AP discount on the room. Could have been 8 of 8, but I chose to stay at ASMovies instead of Pop and the discounts weren't available for AS. I've saved on average about $250 on each of those trips. I saved another $200 next week at Port Orleans. That's an additional $2,000 right out of the gate. That's alot of money.

If you've got and AP and you are happily staying in AP-discounted value rooms, you're doing Disney about as cheap as it gets.

We got APs with the DVC discount this year and I was really excited about using the fabled AP discount but it was never offered for a location I wanted during my travel dates. I am trying to hit every Disney resort once and collecting pins, and I thought I'd be able to tack on a few AP discount days to my trips. I'm a teacher, so I travel mostly in the summer and after my one stay at POP I vowed to never return to a value.

If you travel to Disney that much, one thing that might work well for you is buying a very small resale contract - enough for 4 or 5 nights off season, since that's when you travel. For the layout of about 4,000-6,000 and a couple of hundred a year in dues, you'd get one of your stays paid for for the next 40-50 years and would get AP discounts (that alone would cover your dues with a small contract). If DVC ends up being for you, once you own a small contract, you can add on as few as 25 points at a time - no minimum buy-in.

As frequent Disney travellers, we've found that all the little perk-type discounts DVC offers have started to add up - 20% off of a tour here, free valet parking there, discounted special event tickets, and etc.

 

[pilferk]

I didn't think DVC was good for that long.

I think a big variable in why we think so differently (not a bad thing) is that being an AP holder, in 7 of my last 8 trips, I've gotten an AP discount on the room. Could have been 8 of 8, but I chose to stay at ASMovies instead of Pop and the discounts weren't available for AS. I've saved on average about $250 on each of those trips. I saved another $200 next week at Port Orleans. That's an additional $2,000 right out of the gate. That's alot of money.

DVC may allow this as well, but with an AP, you also can get the Disney Dining Experience which saves us a couple hundred bucks every trip. Gets you discounts on souveniers. All that stuff adds up.

AKV expiration is 2057.....50 years. The "older" resorts (OKW, BWV, BCV, etc) expire in 2042 and SSR in 2054.

On the room discounts: Again.....in YOUR situation, with the values, what you're doing is probably going to work out better for you. Maybe not for the entire 50 years...but closer to it (it's impossible to tell what will happen with AP prices, discounts and even "guesstimating" room and dues increases makes it "soft" predicting). Again.....for those content and able to stay at the values, DVC is probably not the best choice.

We (family of 5) are just not comfortable in those close quarters (and won't be allowed in them once the baby hits 3)...which means: 1) renting 2 rooms and praying we get connecting request granted (a risk I'm not willing to take), 2) renting one of the family suites (which, FYI, don't have discounts), or 3) moving to a larger resort....most likely a deluxe...which STILL seems small to us. When taking every one of the scenarios above (without discounts, FYI)...I couldn't make DVC NOT work for us. But that's what I mean when I say: Everyone's situation is different, so will consider things differently. For some, it's about cost savings. For some, it's about "vacation commitment". For some it's about the larger accomodations. For many, it's about all those factors in different orders.

All AP holders can buy the DDE...and many DVCer's are AP holders and do just that. We've considered it....are actually STILL considering it depending on the DDP changes/situation for 2008.

of course, I could also point out that in a 1BR...I have a full kitchen and, should I decide to actually make good USE of it, could save significantly more than I can with the DDE card. But that's probably neither here nor there.

 

[PrincessV]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I've skimmed through and if the discussion illuminates anything, it's this: people choose DVC for all sorts of reasons and use it in all sorts of ways. The only way to figure out if it's right for you is to play with the numbers and give serious consideration to your vacation habits.

I'm a somewhat (from what I've seen on teh DIS anyway) unusual case, but here's how I determined DVC was right for me:

I live 2 hours away and buy a FL Seasonal Pass each year. With little output fro travel costs, and about $400 a year for our passes, WDW is the least expensive travel destination for us by far. Plus, we just plain love to be there for more than a day at a time. So, I know that we'll stay at WDW at least 8-10 nights per year.
I've stayed at nearly every resort and know my preferences: I'll take a deluxe room every chance I can. AP discounts are becoming more and more difficult to get, and hotel rates continue to escalate. I ran the numbers and, even financing through my ludicrously low-rate HELOC, I'll break even on my 130 DVC points the first year, compared to paying hotel rates. As the years go on, I save more and more each year over paying hotel rates.

Would it be cheaper to stay at values each year? Yep. But I know I wouldn't do that. Would it be cheaper to skip WDW or not go as much? Yep. But I know I wouldn't do that, either. DVC was the right fit for my needs. I only wish I'd have figured it out years ago!