your thoughts on death at six flags

[McCall]

Over the weekend there was a death at Six Flags New England when a 55 year old man fell to his death from a roller coaster.

Now the reason I mention this here is This:

His mother claims that Six Flags is at fault and that they should never have allowed her son, who is overweight and has CP to ride in the first place.

It is a tragedy that this man was killed, But I want to know what the disabled here think?

We fight all the time for our "rights" to have things accessible to us.
I believe that Six flags was right in allowing this person on the ride as any other person, and that if they had refused him, THEN they would have been in line for a law suit and would have been wrong.

Now there may be other factors in play here and it is not yet clear why he fell, for instance did the safety restraint let go, did he do something himself, etc. But just the idea that they should refuse him because he was overweight and had CP is just plain wrong to me.

I also know of course that this is coming from a distraught mother.

More than anything I thought the issues the incident raised was a good topic for discussion here.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Eeyore1954]

I feel sorry for the mother in her loss, but filing a lawsuit is not going to make her situation any better. It's the unfortunate result of today's society where the mantra is "It's not my responsibility!" Everyone makes choices everyday and we all need to be prepared to accept responsibility for those choices. Each one needs to determine the level of acceptable risk they are willing to accept.

While this death is tragic, the young man did make a decision/choice to ride the coaster. No amount of money is going to bring him back to life.

 

[SueM in MN]

An interesting subject.
The last time we went to our local theme park (ValleyFair), we had to go to Guest Services and fill out a questionnnaire about DD's disabilities. Based on that, they gave us a list of rides she would be allowed to ride. If it wasn't on the official list, she could not go on it. I don't know if they are still doing that any more or not. But, there were things that she was not allowed to ride that I as her mother knew would have been OK.

I don't know anything more about this than what you posted, but I think people with disabilities are the same as other people. They need to take responsibility for deciding for themselves (or the person they are responsible for, in the case of a child or a person with who can't make their own decisions). That's no different than other people. It's my responsibility as a person who can't tolerate spinning rides, to get information on Mission Space and decide whether or not it's smart for me to go on.

My DH and I, based on our knowledge of our DD and of the rides, have decided that Star Tours is safe for her to go on, but she will never go on Space Mountain or BTMRR.
What would be helpful is more information about rides and I do think that theme parks in general could do a better job of that. We always have the option (and the responsibility, if necessary) to send another member of our party on a ride first to "check it out" if we have any concerns. But, it would still be helpful if there were computer kiosks in Guest Services that gave pictures and details about individual rides - the restraint system, a picture of the ride car, description of car motions and the abilities needed (things like "good upper body strength" or "ability to hold self upright with no side support").
I'm sure there would still be some people who claimed they had not been warned and should have been stopped by the CM, but at least the responsible people would have better information.

I agree that 6 Flags would probably gotten sued for not letting someone ride because of a disability and will (for sure) get sued in this case because they let him ride). So, they can't really win.

 

[dj2]

there are a lot of open questions here. just as an ecv has a weight limit, perhaps the restraint system on this ride had a weight limit.

although a lawsuit is costly, perhaps (and I've got my hopeful thinking mode on) it will raise the issues that need to be discussed to insure that this type of accident will not happen again.

 

[dclfun]

I'm in agreement with those who've said it is a person's own responsibility to decide whether a person can or cannot get on a theme park ride. After all, we are talking about an amusement attraction, not something that this person *had* to do. I recently had to make a choice whether to debark the Disney Wonder in my power chair in Nassau and whether or not it would be safe as the ramp there was very steep. If I'd had a problem, it would've been my own fault, not someone else's. My chair, my physical abilities ( or lack of ), and other factors were at play in my choice and of course are as individual as I am vs. another disabled person and their circumstances. These parents should have known their own son's limitations and abilities- not Six Flags.---Kathy

 

[Figaro]

There are many rides at WDW that I don't ride any more because I can't brace myself well enough and know that I will end up with even more bruises if I try them. I don't like to think that my judgement would not be adequate in that kind of a situation and I don't understand why the parents think it is Six flags responsibility. Very frustrating to see these kinds of lawsuits.

 

[sue and co]

I agree with previous posters. People have fought hard for the right to make their own decisions and now that they have that right they also have to accept the responsibility for their actions or if someone is not mentally capable of accepting that responsibility their parent/carer should do so. As has been pointed out if six flags refused to allow him to ride they would have faced a lawsuit and now they may face one anyway! The only result of this will be for disabled access to be taken away again on the grounds of health and safety which will benefit no one.
I am very sorry for his mother (and will pray for her) and realise that she is reacting out of grief and obviously if there was an equipment fault six flags should be liable (regardless of who was injured).

Sue

 

[eeyorefanatic]

Keep in mind by overweight they mean 200-225lbs. They claim that according to the ADA if a person can load themselves onto the ride they cannot disallow that person to ride. To me this makes sense kind of. Can you imagine what would have happened if they told someone who could board the ride they were "too" disabled to ride. There's a guaranteed lawsuit.

I think it is far too early to tell what happened in this tragedy.

 

[Absimilliard]

Just to let you know this is not the first instance of a rider being ejected from that kind of restraints:

In 1999, a few weeks after its opening, a man was ejected from Superman: Ride of Steel, located at Six Flags Darien Lake (northwest New-York state, near Niagara Falls). There was no seatbelt on the ride, just a T bar (think WDW Space Mountain lap bars). The man was a little overweight (sorry for using that term...) and was ejected toward the end of the ride. He suffered life long injuries and he recently won his lawsuit (probably one of the few lawsuits that was justified... as he has permanent sequels and Intamin the ride manufacturer developped an history of ejecting riders...)

Then, end of 2000, an overweigh woman was ejected from Perilous Plunge, located at Knott's Berry Farm in California. Perilous Plunge is a large splash boat ride, 120 feet tall with the sharpest drop on a water ride, at 70 degrees! She got thrown out of the ride, as the shape of her body did not allow both the seatbelt and T bar (same restraints as Superman: Ride of Steel) to function properly to keep her on the ride. She unfortunately died.

Beginning of 2004.. Hydro (splash ride very similar to Perilous Plunge) located at Oakwood, a very small amusement park located in the United Kingdom as the same kind of accident as Perilous Plunge. She also died. What is different here is that Hydro utilise a new variation of the T bar (that supposed to prevent riders from getting thrown out of the ride) and the victim was a 16 years old teenager, slender as any teenagers can be... (VERY disturbing, as this could potentially eliminate the "the victim was overweight and should not have ridden" line.)

Now this... wow... I rode that rollercoaster in 2002 and it is probably the most wildest ride in the United States, if not in the world!

Holiday Park (located in Germany) built in 2001 the Expedition GeForce, Europe wildest ride. Its features T-Bars and seatbelts as restraints, but... the german TUV (government office in charge of safety for all kind of products and machinery) imposed very small seatbelts, in order to make sure every riders are within the safety limits of the restraints! For Perilous Plunge, its now use in addition to the T-Bar and seatbelt, a 5 point rallye seatbelt harness.

This was a short history lesson to inform you that this is not a first unfortunaly.

 

[McCall]

I do believe that the government needs to look into the safety issues on all rides and come up with some Federal standards, but that has nothing to do with the main issue I was concerned with in starting this thread, which is the possible backlash regarding the disabled and their rights to access to things.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying other comments are not welcome, just don't want to get off the path as it were.

 

[Sarahsmom85]

I live within 10 minutes of this 6 flags where this accident happened. So it has been all over the TV here. They have shut down the Superman ride and all others that use a T bar lock down. Seems like his weight might have been more of his problem than his disability.

This first time I saw the mother on TV she said her son loved Rollercoaster and went from park to park riding them. I believe the mother thought it was an accident. She seemed to accept it, and say how much she would miss him. Next time I saw her she was wondering why 6 flags would like him on the ride. Hate to say this but I think someone was put ideas in her head. He did ride a scooter and was overweight.


The OP is right that we fight for the right to be able to do what ever the normal person has the opportunity to do.
I believe he rode the ride because he wanted to. I don't believe 6 Flag should be sued because he was let on the ride. Maybe that the ride people did not make sure he was locked in properly or that the ride malfuctioned.
The ride was just inspected by the government and passed.

I guess we need to see how this plays out.

 

[BostonAnnual]

I also frequent this park & have rode this Superman ride with my kids. It is the most intense rollercoaster I have ever been on.

While waiting in the long line, I remember reading a "Warning" for a weight & height limit.
The height limit was 6 feet 6 inches but I can't remember what the weight limit was.

 

[eeyorefanatic]

There is no weight limit listed on the web site for this ride
http://www.sixflags.com/parks/newengland/Rides/superman.html

 

[welovedis]

Here's a link to the CNN story about it:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/01/coaster.death.ap/index.html
Another story with more info from the man's mother:
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/8574933.htm
Also a link to the story about the man who was injured in 1999 at Darien Lake's Superman rollercoaster.
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/news/archives/may99/stories/051899_01.html

Also a good link to park accidents:
http://members.aol.com/rides911/accidents.htm

Also, there is a weight limit posted in the park about this ride--at least at Six Flags Darien Lake there is as we saw it last year.

Now sure how I feel about it, but if there is a weight limit, height limit those should obviously be followed.

 

[snubie]

According to what I have read he was overweight but no THAT overweight. His mother stated somewhere that he was about 200 pounds, that is not so overweight to not fit the restraint system for these rides. Much larger people ride these rides.

According to his mother, he frequently went to Six Flags, he had a season pass and would drive himself the 30 minutes to the park quite often. She knew he liked rollercoasters but did not realize just the type of coasters he was riding.

I don't think Six Flags should be sued. This man was capable of driving a car independently, he would then be capable of deciding to ride a rollercoaster or not. Some of the mother's comments are disturbing. She says something to the effect that the handicapped should not be allowed to ride. Each person and or family needs to make their own decisions regarding this.

Stacey

 

[McCall]

Originally posted by snubie
According to what I have read he was overweight but no THAT overweight. His mother stated somewhere that he was about 200 pounds, that is not so overweight to not fit the restraint system for these rides. Much larger people ride these rides.

According to his mother, he frequently went to Six Flags, he had a season pass and would drive himself the 30 minutes to the park quite often. She knew he liked rollercoasters but did not realize just the type of coasters he was riding.

I don't think Six Flags should be sued. This man was capable of driving a car independently, he would then be capable of deciding to ride a rollercoaster or not. Some of the mother's comments are disturbing. She says something to the effect that the handicapped should not be allowed to ride. Each person and or family needs to make their own decisions regarding this.

Stacey

Yes this was why I started this thread, the issue of the mother and then I heard a congressman say that since he was disabled he should not have been allowed to ride.
That was the part that concerned me the most, If the ride was faulty because of his weight or otherwise, then it makes no difference if he were disabled or not, and I do NOT want to see the rights so hard won, diluted by do gooder congressmen.
Making the rides SAFER and having ride Standards that apply across the country are another matter, but not, well don't let the disabled ride in the first place.
we don't want to revisit that fight.

 

[BostonAnnual]

The man who fell to his death from a roller coaster at Six Flags New England last weekend was not properly secured in his seat by a park attendant, according to a state investigation of the accident.
The report, released today, blames a 20-year-old unnamed attendant for not making sure Stanley J. Mordarsky was safely restrained in the Superman Ride of Steel roller coaster last Saturday.

There were ``no apparent mechanical defects'' on the roller coaster, but Mordarsky should have been denied admission because his girth prevented a T-bar lap restraint from fitting firmly against his thighs, the report said.

``Had the ride attendant identified that the T-bar lap restraint was not in position necessary to protect the patron from ejection, the patron would have been removed from the ride,'' the report by the Department of Public Safety said.

The report says some seat belts weren't pulled tightly and the T-bars weren't pushed firmly enough against some riders.

The ride also has seat belts of different sizes meant to accommodate larger people, which may be a problem, the report said.

``This creates an opportunity for patrons, who may have a body size and type that is incompatible with the 'T' bar restraint to ride the coaster, unaware of the potential hazard.''

Mordarsky, 55, had cerebral palsy, used a motorized scooter and was 5-foot-2 and weighed 230 pounds, according to his family.

The Bloomfield, Conn., man had a ``pre-existing medical condition'' which he was required by law to report to the attendants. Portions of the report were blacked out for privacy reasons, and it was not clear whether Mordarsky told anyone about his cerebral palsy.

The report says Mordarsky's hand was severed when it hit the roller coaster track and the wheels of another car. ``It should be noted that it is not physically possible for a hand to come in contact with the coaster wheels when a person is properly secured in the seat restraints,'' the report said.

The report says the ride will remain closed until the amusement park and the company that built the roller coaster make corrections to the ride. The state has also shut down the handful of rides in Massachusetts amusement parks that use the T-bar restraints.

The ride was manufactured by Intamin, whose Web site lists the company as being located in Liechtenstein in Europe.

Mary Ann Burns, a spokeswoman for Six Flags New England, did not immediately return telephone calls to The Associated Press.

Witnesses who were on a roller coaster with Mordarsky said park employees didn't check to see if all the safety restraints on all the cars were fastened and locked.

Park visitor Faith Thomas of Raymond, N.H., said she was sitting behind Mordarsky and grabbed him when he popped up in his seat as the roller coaster approached the last turn.

Thomas, of Raymond, N.H., said she let go of her own safety bar and pulled Mordarsky back into his seat by his shirt and suspenders.

Seconds later, Mordarsky lost his grip and was flung from the ride, she said.

During the ride, Thomas said she noticed that the belt was around Mordarsky, but the T-shaped safety bar was halfway up.

The Rev. Henry Waltmire, associate pastor of Crossroads Community Cathedral Church in East Hartford, Conn., said one park employee inspected seat belts and lap restraints on the right side, but not the left, where Mordarsky was sitting in the front car.

The Superman ride, which opened in 2000, stands as high as 208 feet, and reaches speeds of up to 80 mph. Six Flags in Agawam, about 90 miles west of Boston, is owned by Oklahoma City, Okla.-based Six Flags Inc., which operates 31 parks in North America and Europe

 

[Schmeck]

One note - if the poor man was only 5'2", but weighed 230 lbs, he was definitely overweight for his height - maybe his short stature, combined with his extra weight, was just in such a poor proportion that the restraint didn't fit properly?

Hopefully, all that will come of this horrible accident is that restraints will be designed to protect people of all shapes and sizes, and those of differing abilities will still be allowed to enjoy getting scared out of their minds if they choose to!

Schmeck, keeping this poor man's family in her thoughts tonight.

 

[pumpkinboy]

The local press here in Massachusetts reports that the attendant running the ride has been suspended with pay pending an investigation into the incident. Both the Attorney General and Park Management appear to be saying that there is a probability that attendant did not properly fasten the bar in place in the eventual victim's seat. The fact that he was somewhat mentally impaired as well and overwieght seems to have exacerbated the problem. Retarded adults just never seem to get the kind of public sympathy afforded to retarded children, and I suspect that the attendant was uneasy around this man, which may have caused him to be less careful securing him in. It is unfortunately a common prejudice.

OK, so employee negligence certainly seems like just grounds for a lawsuit to me. Watch Six Flags settle this one.

 

[BostonAnnual]

A couple of thing about this bother me:

1) Why wasn't this man given more assisstance getting into this ride If he got on from a motorized scooter?

2) I'd always just assumed there would be some alarm/ warning light for the operator to see if everyone was not belted in properly. That technology has existed in the cars I've owned for the last 20 years so I think of it as commonplace.