Your rights begin where mine end...

[Sorsha]

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely?

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me?

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind?

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance?

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall?

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely?

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped?

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind?

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance?

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall?

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? * Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

You mean it has taken you this long to figure that out?

In all honesty while I know that you want to think that the world has "changed" really all that is changed is the world and people are the same.

 

[Goofyluver]

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely?

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me?

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind?

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance?

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall?

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

Often, that imaginary line in the sand isn't so imaginary.

Ideally, what is meant by the statement is that both you and I have a right to our individual opinions. We have the right to disagree. But none of us have the right to force an action and/or opinion on others.

Ideally, this is what would be the driving force behind legislation in this country.

This country is far from ideal.

Of course, it could be said that I have no right to offer my opinion on such matters, since this country doesn't recognize me as a full and equal citizen.

Without intending to or leaning towards violating board policies, I'll leave it there...

 

[ebtbmom]

What an interesting and debate worthy topic!

My general opinion is that everyone has the right to do whatever they please whenever they please as long as they are not physically harming another person/animal/property. We do not have the right to never be offended or inconveinenced or irritated, that's just life. But we should be protected from physical (and at times verbal such as in bullying) harm from others.

I also think that if more people had common sense and courtiesness than we wouldn't need institutions constantly trying to impose restrictive rules on us. I hate rules, most of them should be more like general guidelines.

 

[Sorsha]

You mean it has taken you this long to figure that out?

In all honesty while I know that you want to think that the world has "changed" really all that is changed is the world and people are the same.

Explain.

By this do you mean that you think there are more people in the world today, so by the law of averages more people are going to bump into/tread on the toes of someone else?

By this do you mean that there are so many laws/regulations/expectations governing society today that its almost impossible to avoid breaking some of them?

Do you mean that NOTHING has changed and people have always been this darn picky??? Whatever happened to "live and let live" and "accidents happen"?

 

[PeterPan09]

What an interesting and debate worthy topic!

My general opinion is that everyone has the right to do whatever they please whenever they please as long as they are not physically harming another person/animal/property. We do not have the right to never be offended or inconveinenced or irritated, that's just life. But we should be protected from physical (and at times verbal such as in bullying) harm from others.

I also think that if more people had common sense and courtiesness than we wouldn't need institutions constantly trying to impose restrictive rules on us. I hate rules, most of them should be more like general guidelines.

Try the Golden Rule-do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If everyone, or even the majority followed that a lot of problems would vanish

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Explain.

By this do you mean that you think there are more people in the world today, so by the law of averages more people are going to bump into/tread on the toes of someone else?

By this do you mean that there are so many laws/regulations/expectations governing society today that its almost impossible to avoid breaking some of them?

Do you mean that NOTHING has changed and people have always been this darn picky??? Whatever happened to "live and let live" and "accidents happen"?

This and that. Although people were MUCH picker in the old days.

Change is a constant. Wrap that around your brain. Times are a'changing.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Interesting topic. I don't think anyone has a right not to be offended or inconvenienced. Infringing on another person's rights has to directly affect their person or property. I did not read the stroller thread, so I can't comment on that, but my thoughts on your other examples are in red.

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely? There is no right not to hear other people speak, unless it crosses over into harassment. Getting right up in someone's face and shouting at them would cross the line, simple yelling probably does not.

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me? Accidents happen, But yes, you have the right to stop in a public place, even when people are behind you. There is no such thing as the right not to be inconvenienced by someone stopping in front of you (no matter how annoying it is).

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind? No right not to breathe cigarette smoke in the outdoors, IMO. Again, someone purposefully blowing it in your face from 10 inches away would cross the line, but it wafting over from 20 feet away does not.

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance? The right to dance doesn't not include the right to trample on someone while doing so. Dance with caution.

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall? No right not be feel uncomfortable. If something someone else is doing makes a person uncomfortable, they should look away.

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

We all have the right to make decisions that actually affect us personally. When those decisions begin to directly affect others is when our rights should end. Directly doesn't mean "I don't want to have to look at something" or "I don't want to acknowledge something I disagree with."

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I couldn't decide between these two quotes, so I'll post them both.

They sum up how I feel about it.

I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty. ~John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

We have the Bill of Rights. What we need is a Bill of Responsibilities. ~Bill Maher

 

[Janepod]

It's actually Oliver Wendell Holmes - "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

 

[kbeverina]

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely?

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me?

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind?

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance?

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall?

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

I think a lot of the things you list as rights, aren't really rights.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It's actually Oliver Wendell Holmes - "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

I actually like this one a lot better!

 

[dzorn]

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely?

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me?

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind?

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance?

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall?

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

I think it is more appropritate

"My rights end where yours begin"

If everyone thought of others first we would avoid a lot of issues.

Denise in MI

 

[dngnb8]

Half the problem is people dont even understand their Rights.

Example

Freedom of Speech.

Ive been on message board for years, and I always laugh when someone complains when a moderator deletes something they say, and they throw out their right to Free Speech.

You see, the Right is not to have Government inhibit your Free Speech.

So, the first step in acknowledging your Rights, is understanding them.

That is what "Your rights begin where mine end..."communicates.


It refers to realizing what your Rights are limited too. Your Rights do not trump mine.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I think you're making up a lot of rights that don't exist.

I am bored, my chores for the day are caught up, and so I thought I would open up a topic of discussion that has been on my mind recently.

Thomas Paine said it first, and it has been used throughout history to justify some things and to demand change in others. "You rights begin where mine end."

The thread on taking a stroller into the bathroom at Sea World (totally not going to go there on that thread, but I side with the mom... take the stroller in, use the handicapped stall, get your business done and get out - no biggie) got me thinking. How is that phrase even possible, especially in today's world?I don't think using the bathroom at Sea World, or using a stroller is a right, although it's certainly in Sea World's interest to have bathrooms available for their customers, and to allow people to use strollers! I think that taking the stroller in is totally reasonable, but that a nice husband would have offered to watch his own child so the mom can pee in privacy!

Yes, there are situations where you must just Follow The Rules, and rights be d*mned. I get that. But how does a person define that line in the sand between their right to do something, and another's person's right to not be offended/inconvenienced/etc by it?

I have a right not to hear you yelling at me, but don't you have a right to speak freely? Free speech is a right, there's no right to not hear something, especially someone else's free speech

I have a right NOT to be run over by a stroller, but don't you have the freedom to accidently not notice that I have stopped? And do I have the right to stop in front of you to look at something, in a public place, even if you are behind me? People make mistakes. That has nothing to do with rights. I think common sense tells the person in front to not stop suddenly, and the person behind to watch the person in front

I have the right not to breathe cigarette smoke, but don't you have the right to smoke in a designated smoking area? Can either of us control the direction of the wind? There is no right to smoke, in some places the law establishes a right for certain spaces to be smoke free. (in my city it's restaurants, hospitals, the entry way to apartment buildings and some other places I forget). I am sure that Disney is following the law in how they've set up their smoking areas.

You have the right to dance wildly in circles because you are overjoyed at something, but I have the right to not be trampled while you are dancing. But if I ask you to stop, am I not denying you your right to dance? There is no right to dance.

You have the right to nurse your baby anywhere you like, your baby has the right to eat; but does my husband not have the right to be uncomfortable, and wish for a breast-free shopping trip when a stranger's nipple comes flashing into view at the mall? Most places in the U.S. the law is clear on this. A baby has the right to be fed wherever they are. Your husband does not have the right to dictate how or where a baby is fed. There is no right not to feel uncomfortable. If there were we'd never have overcome segregation, and free speech would be meaningless

This can be applied to so many bigger "issues" - many of which cannot be discussed here due to board rules - but the question I pose to you, just theoretically of course, is whose rights trump whose when it comes to that imaginary line in the sand?

Should the mother really have had to wait for her husband to watch the baby and/or wet her pants merely so another person wasn't inconvenienced by a stroller in the restrooms? Have we, as a society, really become so pretentious as to quibble over a person's right to pee?

Feel free to talk among yourselves...

 

[mamacatnv]

Interesting topic:

Many of these things listed IMO are not rights.
I think we as a society have become very self centered and when others do things that bug us we take it as some sort of personal attack.

I believe in managing ones own person. I don't believe we have the right to directly cause harm to others but I feel that if something makes us uncomfortable we need to leave or turn on our ignore buttons.
If something happens as a chain reaction due to something we did (stopping in a walkway and getting whacked by a stroller) then we chalk it up to accidents happen and move on.

It is not someone elses responsibility to see to my comforts.

 

[mamacatnv]

I also think we have become a society of rules. We have a gov't and school system that seem to think we cannot somehow manage to manage ourselves or raise our children so they have decided it needs to be mandated on our behalf. This bugs me

 

[cornflake]

As noted, it's not 'your rights begin where mine end...' for a reason; that's kind of meaningless.

It is 'your rights end at the tip of my nose.'

There's no right to not be uncomfortable, to not feel some way, etc. There is a right to not be smacked, yes.

 

[Uptown Girl]

I think a lot of the things you list as rights, aren't really rights.

I agree. These are not rights, these are common courtesies that result in living in a society-any society. I don't care who you are, you don't run over people's feet with your stroller or whatever and don't apologize, that is just plain rude, there are no "rights" granted that you shouldn't get your feet run over though.

Rights are more fundamental, they are pretty much spelled out in the Bill of Rights for those of us living in the US. Yes, you have the right to say what you want, but someone else also has the right to sue for for slander. You have a right to own a gun but you do not have the right to bring that gun into MY store. These would be examples of "your rights end where my rights start".

 

[Uptown Girl]

I also think we have become a society of rules. We have a gov't and school system that seem to think we cannot somehow manage to manage ourselves or raise our children so they have decided it needs to be mandated on our behalf. This bugs me

I don't think it is really the government or the schools that have propagated this, I think it is a very, very small number of people (parents) who think their kid got the raw end of the stick and the government or schools have created these rules out of self-defense. All of the 'no-tolerance" rules at schools are a perfect example of this.