Your opinions on this divorced mom, please (long, sorry)

[bsnyder]

Ugh,

This is a VERY selfish person.

But I feel like I'm defending the kids, not either of them

You've hit the nail on the head. It shouldn't be about either of them. But in this case, it sounds like it is. And unfortunately, I've seen it happen a lot in divorce situations. Far too many parents put their own needs before those of their kids.

 

[bsnyder]

I would lay it out for her, just like you have explained it to us. I have seen several women lose custody of their children for doing this same exact thing. It is called Parental Alienation. She needs to be very careful, because there is some attorney out there that would be more than willing to take her ex's cash and put her through the ringers and make sure the ex gets full custody.

Been there, done that (not personally, and in this case it was the father I was friends with). I testified at several of the hearings.

And in the end, the only winners were the attorneys, who ended up with all the money. And the big loser was the kid. Very, very screwed up!

 

[Planogirl]

You said that these kids were teens. Maybe if they're old enough, they can kind of see what's happening. That won't make it any easier for them but I'd worry more if they were young children particularly if your friend conintues to refuse to mend her ways. Whatever happens, chances are that she'll end up being the unhappy one in the long run though.

 

[SillyMe]

He really is a creep. That's why it's so weird defending him. But I feel like I'm defending the kids, not either of them. Not that it matters, she's not listening to me. I reall think this is the end of our friendship -- or am I copping out?

You are defending the kids. As long as their father is not unfit or abusive they have every right to see him and have a relationship with them. One day her children are going to resent her. As someone else mentioned, she is risking losing them altogether if he sues her for custody. Being teenagers, they are old enough to tell the courts exactly what she says and how she prevents them from having a relationship with their father. The kids may also make the decision on their own to go live with their father if she doesn't stop what she's doing. Has she thought about that? Maybe you could try mentioning that to her.

 

[Feralpeg]

She doesn't sound like a bad person to me. She sounds like someone who has been badly hurt. In her mind, her ex-husband is not good for her kids. It sounds like she is trying to protect them in a bizarre way. If the dad really wants to be part of his kids lives, he should sit down with them and tell them his side of the story. The kids are old enough to make up their own minds.

For the OP, I'd stay out of it if I were you. It really isn't your issue. It would be very hard for anyone else to understand what is going on in your friend's head or how much this has hurt her. In time, she may mellow as the pain subsides. Don't lose a good friend over something that really isn't your business.

 

[wilderness01]

Feralpeg, nice post. I totally agree with you.

 

[Keli]

Sometimes we all act in ways that aren't good, kind, or even reasonable when we are really, really hurting. I know there have been times in my life that I look back at later and realize I don't even like the person I became or the things I did in reaction to the pain and hurting going on in me right then.

We don't deserve to have our friends hang around when we are doing destructive, vengeful things but it is very kind of them if they do.

Personally, I wouldn't let my df talk about the things she's said or done to alienate her children from their father. Every time she started to tell me something along those lines I'd stop her and let her know that I didn't approve of it. If she doesn't eventually get over this then I would move on but I'd give her a loooonnggg time to get over her pain and stop this destructive behavior.

 

[palmtreegirl]

She doesn't sound like a bad person to me. She sounds like someone who has been badly hurt. In her mind, her ex-husband is not good for her kids. It sounds like she is trying to protect them in a bizarre way. If the dad really wants to be part of his kids lives, he should sit down with them and tell them his side of the story. The kids are old enough to make up their own minds.

For the OP, I'd stay out of it if I were you. It really isn't your issue. It would be very hard for anyone else to understand what is going on in your friend's head or how much this has hurt her. In time, she may mellow as the pain subsides. Don't lose a good friend over something that really isn't your business.

 

[auntpolly]

I can tell you are really uncomfortable with this.

Bingo! I think it boils down to this. I've said everything short of "I can't be friends with you anymore if you continue to be like this."

But this sounds so judgemental to me. Do I have the right to say something like this to anyone? I mean, I'm not perfect.

If I am truly a friend, do I accept this fault in her, well not accept the fault, but accept her even with fault, and continue try to sway her?

Am I just being lazy and judgemental?

 

[auntpolly]

In time, she may mellow as the pain subsides. Don't lose a good friend over something that really isn't your business.

Don't get me wrong I see your point, but when every time we have lunch all we talk about is how "Michael wouldn't let his dad come to the game and I was so proud!" and "Chris doesn't even want his dad at his birthday party! " , it's hard to just sit there. I feel like she's dragging me into this.

 

[wilderness01]

How old are the kids? Teens? Late teens? Maybe they are making these decisions all on their own and she is proud that they can see the light of how he really is. I know some people will say, "he is still their father", and yes that is true. But if he is destructive and they don't want him around, they do have the right to protect themselves and make that choice for themselves. Just because you can't pick your parents, doesn't mean that if they are bad people you have to continue to let them be destructive around you and to you. Just another perspective.

P.S. Before anyone says "I have issues" I have a wonderful relationship with my family, and I am very close to them. I just don't think you should have to "put up with someone" because they share the same blood as you, if they truly are a bad person and are toxic in your life.

 

[auntpolly]

They are teenagers and they know the whole story, thanks to their mom. Their dad kept trying to tell them it was over with the other woman when it wasn't.

But they are so hurt. You know how they say the opposite of love is indifference? These kids are so angry I'm sure they don't hate their dad. I think they need someone to tell them it's OK to love their dad and still be mad at him.

But as it's been pointed out, it's really not my business. I'm just tired of talking about it with her. I can't agree with her. Do I have to keep sitting there just nodding my head? I've told her I don't approve. It's either that or break up with her.

 

[wilderness01]

Why don't you try the approach of "this is mentally exhausting for you and although you would like to continue to be there for her, you can't talk about this all the time anymore." You are not really abandoning her, remaining her friend, but telling her it is too much to handle anymore. I had to do this with a friend once. It was hard, but she was emotionally draining and I couldn't take it anymore. Maybe this friend doesn't even realize she is obsessing about this and this will be a wake up call.

What age teens are these? Late teens?

 

[HaleyB]

I almost lost my best friend over something like this.

How long has this been going on? Almost anyone would be angry and act on their anger in that situation, at first. Give her some time if it has not been long. Try to help her with her own anger and pain, when she gets a grip on that she will be more rational. She needs to see that her best bet is to not sink to his level, but that may take time.

The ex sounds like a real jerk and in her mind she may be protecting the kids, she may feel like they are going to be hurt by him too.

 

[wilderness01]

They are teenagers and they know the whole story, thanks to their mom.

You sound angry about this.

Their dad kept trying to tell them it was over with the other woman when it wasn't.

Don't you think they would have realized this and been angry all on their own? Sounds like the mom is so angry she doesn't realize to let them see it on their own and develop their own feelings towards him. They will learn to disrespect him all on their own if he is lying and cheating, and he will have deserved it. No deed goes unpunished forever, really. Let them learn on their own, or does she think she is trying to protect them for his dishonest ways and that is why she is telling them?

 

[auntpolly]

They are teenagers and they know the whole story, thanks to their mom.

You sound angry about this.

No, I really didn't mean it that way. I just meant, because of their mom. I mean, she's the one who told them. I think they should know. I don't know. It was (is) such a mess. That parts over. I held her hand all through that part of it. Now I'm just a little fried and you know, if she wanted to go out for cocktails every night and talk about what an idiot he is, I'd do that. I just don't like involving the kids. And I've told her that. And she doesn't care.

Have I been watching too many lifetime movies? Is it really OK for her to get excited because the kids don't want to spend time with their dad. This isn't an after school special, I guess. Maybe it isn't her problem if the dad works things out with the kids?

 

[poohandwendy]

I would feel the same way you do, AP. Reveling in the fact that your kids have a bad relationship with their father is twisted, IMO.

I agree that they will someday resent her for it. I have been that child. And no matter how bad the other parent is, there is just something really, really disrespectful going on when your mother enjoys the fact that your relationship with him is strained too.

I cannot say how you should handle this, but coming from my own personal experience...I could not be involved with someone who did that. Her pain does not trump her childrens feelings, IMO.

 

[auntpolly]

I would feel the same way you do, AP. Reveling in the fact that your kids have a bad relationship with their father is twisted, IMO.

I agree that they will someday resent her for it. I have been that child. And no matter how bad the other parent is, there is just something really, really disrespectful going on when your mother enjoys the fact that your relationship with him is strained too.

I cannot say how you should handle this, but coming from my own personal experience...I could not be involved with someone who did that. Her pain does not trump her childrens feelings, IMO.

PAW I value your opinion. Just humor me -- what would you do? She says, "It was so funny Chris told his dad not to come to his birthday party "

You say nothing for the 2000th time

You say "that's not nice" for the 2000th time

You say, "call me when you are over this"

 

[wilderness01]

Change the subject everytime she brings it up. She will get the hint without you having to say a word.

 

[wilderness01]

Or say nothing at all. You know silence speaks volumes.