You must be swift as the coursing river (as long as it's the Lazy River) - comments welcome

[WillRunForPizza]

Congrats on the new official 5k PR!!!

Great job!!

And congrats on the PR!!!!!

Thanks!

Alright, time for some veteran talk. I know the feelings you’re having about the race experience. I’ve had them before, most of us had. We finish a race, we PR, and then we feel like we could have done more. This leads to feelings of happiness and disappointment simultaneously. Take it from me, push out the disappointment as much as possible. Really soak in the PR. They don’t happen often and they get rarer and rarer the more you do this. Treasure the moment. I’ve had similar races, felt like I could have done better than just the PR, and now 8 years later have still not beaten that PR. I didn’t really enjoy and appreciate it at that moment as much as I should have. There will be more races and more chances.

Good perspective, thanks. I will try!

And I agree on the medal, it doesn’t seem as pretty as it could be.

Right? I mean, how hard is it to make a cool cherry blossom medal?

Oh gosh, we were at the expo at the exact same time yesterday! Have we upgraded our status to "Missing each other by nanoseconds at races AND expos???"

Lol that whole thing was a madhouse though, and I was in no mood to talk to anyone.

I don't know if you heard, but the 5k line was so long all evening they shut down the line and wouldn't let anyone else line up at around 7 PM, a full 45 minutes before the expo closed!

Wow. That's inexcusable. They knew how many people signed up for the 5K, so they needed a setup that allowed those people an opportunity to pick their bibs up before race day. For a race that is celebrating its 50th anniversary, you would think they would be able to handle the very basic minimums of running an event.

So maybe start at the original goal time and then after 4-5 miles reassess. As you saw today, despite the weaving at the start it is kind of fun to crush the back half of a race.

Okay, good plan. I will run with the 8:30 group for...at least 3 miles

Also only in a running group would somebody call the feeling of "I think I might throw up and/or die" "kind of fun"

 

[GollyGadget]

Congrats on the pr! I know the weaving is frustrating but it might have helped you start out slow. I’ve started too fast and crashed on the back half, that’s worse than feeling like you might vomit.

Good luck tomorrow!

 

[NYC_MW]

Congrats! And good luck!!

 

[jmasgat]

Congrats on the PR. I hear you on the dodging and weaving and the frustration. Mentally, it can take a lot out of you. Way to go for racing through that (literally and figuratively!)

Also, that dog picture (and your capture) is classic. That eye!

 

[lookingforsunshine]

Awesome job with the 5k PR!!!

And I don't know if you heard, but the 5k line was so long all evening they shut down the line and wouldn't let anyone else line up at around 7 PM, a full 45 minutes before the expo closed!

This is WILD to me and also seems dumb… like obviously then all those people would have to get their bib in the AM which will cause more chaos, right (and sounds like it did)? Like, if the expo hours are a certain time frame, don’t close the line early unless you tell ppl you’re going to.

 

[striker1064]

This is WILD to me and also seems dumb… like obviously then all those people would have to get their bib in the AM which will cause more chaos, right (and sounds like it did)? Like, if the expo hours are a certain time frame, don’t close the line early unless you tell ppl you’re going to.

Right.

> Host a wildly popular run in a notoriously type-A city

> Everyone shows up to get their bibs

> Surprised Pikachu face

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Congrats on the pr! I know the weaving is frustrating but it might have helped you start out slow. I’ve started too fast and crashed on the back half, that’s worse than feeling like you might vomit.

Thanks! I have definitely been there too. 5Ks are hard!

Congrats! And good luck!!

Congrats on the PR. I hear you on the dodging and weaving and the frustration. Mentally, it can take a lot out of you. Way to go for racing through that (literally and figuratively!)

Awesome job with the 5k PR!!!

Thank you all!

10-miler recap coming shortly

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Race recap: Cherry Blossom 10-Miler
Washington, DC | April 2, 2023
In which you don't notice the tailwind until you turn around

Already did the expo and 5K, so jumping right in. The weather was a little warmer than predicted (I think maybe 43-ish at the start?) but the winds were definitely more insistent than yesterday. I got up at 5, walked the dog, had a piece of toast with PB and some coffee, and headed to the race around 6:45. I ran there because it's less than a mile and a half away and it was the simplest mode of transportation.

I didn't make it all the way to the starting area before I decided to slow to a walk. There were SO. MANY. PEOPLE. This is still a block from the Washington Monument (you can see it a little bit behind the trees), and it's already full of people headed for the race.



I hopped in the bathroom line right away and waited about 10 minutes. After that @striker1064 and I made a halfhearted attempt to meet up, but there were 20,000 PEOPLE there so it's not a surprise that I found absolutely none of the people I was looking for.

Anyway, I was planning to start with the 8:30 pace group, but by the time I got to the corrals there was no way to get to them. At least I did a little better than the 5K, ending up behind the 9:30 pacer.


ID: The entire population of the city trying to get into the corrals.

The race officially started at 7:30, but it took probably 8 minutes to finally make it to the start line.


ID: Finally almost at the start of the race!

While lots of other big races do wave starts (Disney, RnR, etc.), as far as I can tell this one just let everybody go however quickly they could get to the starting line. This meant that the course was once again VERY crowded for the first several miles (and still moderately crowded after that). But at least this time I had 10 miles to work with instead of 3.1, so I was a little less stressed about getting around people. Mile 1 was by far the slowest at 8:53. In addition to dealing with crowding, I was mindful of not going out too fast, so miles 2 and 3 were also relatively conservative at 8:26 and 8:20 respectively.

The layout of the course meant that the first few miles were nearly devoid of spectators, but that changed once we came back around to the Mall. Lots of people cheering, lots of good signs (I particularly liked "All that sweat makes you look hot!"). Between that and the habit I had developed of passing people while not paying that much attention to my pace, mile 4 was a little faster at 8:11. Then I thought, "Oh no, what if I'm too fast now" and slowed down a little (I think there might have been a little uphill here too) and finished mile 5 in 8:18.

At that point I was halfway done and still feeling good, so I said, "screw caution" and started to pick it up again. Mile 6 was another 8:11, and then we were in East Potomac Park and I felt GREAT. The cherry blossoms, while a little past their peak, were lovely, I mostly had room to maneuver without too much zigzagging, and I looked down and was running a 7:30 pace with my HR still in the 170s, which is WAY better than I would ever have guessed. I kind of panicked and dialed it back a little because I still had several miles to go, but average for mile 7 ended up being 7:54.

Then we came around Hains Point and headed back in the other direction. And I suddenly understood why the last mile or two had felt so easy. Because while 20 mph winds at your back are apparently both awesome and unnoticed, 20 mph winds in your face are NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS. I kind of wished the course were still as crowded as it was in the beginning so I could have more of a wind block. But I pushed through it. Mile 8 (half tailwind, half headwind): 7:48. Mile 9 (all the headwinds): 7:59.

With only a mile left, it was finally time to really reach. I somehow ran the last mile in 7:31, for a total of......1:21:56! Which is actually spot-on from the McMillan prediction from my 5K, so that tracks. Added bonus: I did not feel nearly as gassed as I was at the end of yesterday's race.

ID: Mile splits from Strava. Please ignore the HR measurements for the first half of the race; my watch was once again cadence-locked.

ALSO according to Strava I PR'd the 10K on the back end with a 49:25! Sub-50 was going to be my goal for my May 10K, so I guess I'll have to find something new

After I had a chance to catch my breath following the 5K, I felt fine. Today I'm definitely feeling the fatigue in my legs as the day wears on, but it's still not too bad. It was certainly quite a weekend!

TL;DR
Two days, two races, three PRs (1:21:56 for the 10-Miler, 49:25 for an unofficial 10K, and 23:36 for yesterday's 5K)


ID: L to R, 5K, challenge, and 10-Miler medals

 

[striker1064]

Congrats on your awesome races! Great job!!

 

[GollyGadget]

Wooo! Great job!

We’ve been having a lot of wind here and it’s amazing how I never feel the tailwind until I turn around

 

[WillRunForPizza]

March 27 - April 2, 2023
Spring training week 9 of 16 | 0 days until Cherry Blossom Challenge
In which I almost forget about the rest of the week

Monday
Planned: 4 miles @ EA (10:46)
Completed: 4.03 miles @ 10:49
Total: 43:36, 139 bpm
Plus: Pilates

Not looking at my watch, just running easy after another longer-than-planned weekend run. Lots of stops at lights, hence the low HR.

Tuesday
Planned: 5 miles @ EB (10:03) + strides
Completed: 5.87 miles @ 10:14 w/ strides
Total: 1:00:09, 145 bpm

I wanted to scout out the 5K course to make sure it didn't reach the big hill by the Capitol (it was fine). There were once again many lights, and people remain bad at walking/biking/driving.

Wednesday
Planned: 1 mile WU (11:28) + 2 x 6 min @ HMP (8:36)/2 min @ CV (8:10)/1 min @ 5KP (7:54)/2 min RI + 1 mile CD
Completed: 1 mile WU + 2 x 6 min @ HMP/2 min @ CV/1 min @ 5KP/2 min RI + 0.94 miles CD
Interval split paces: 8:25/8:09/7:50, 8:03/8:08/7:57
GAP: 8:30/8:05/6:32, 8:12/7:49/7:12
Total: 4.3 miles, 43:09, 158 bpm
Plus: lower body strength

While I was doing this workout, I kept wondering why it was so hard to find the right paces. Then I came home and looked at the grade adjustments and it made a lot more sense. I mean, my pacing still wasn't very good, but at least I understand why.

Thursday
Planned: rest
Completed: rest

Friday
Planned: 3 miles @ EB + strides
Completed: 3.05 miles @ 10:12 w/ strides + drills
Total: 31:08, 148 bpm
Plus: upper body strength/core

Kept it light and didn't look at my watch much.

Saturday
Planned: 2 mile WU + strides + 5K @ 7:42
Completed: 1.74 mile WU + 5K @ 7:36 + 1.15 mile CD
Total: 5.98 miles, 55:40

Cherry Blossom 5K (recap above). I didn't include this in the recap, but just to show you the difference between the first half start-stop mess and the second half with slightly less dodging and zigzagging, here's the pace graph from Strava:



Sunday
Planned: 10 miles @ 8:28
Completed: 1.25 mile WU + 10.02 miles @ 8:12 + 1.46 mile CD
Total: 12.73 miles, 1:51:22

Cherry Blossom 10-Miler (recap above)

I don't think I'll be in a hurry to do these races again because I didn't think the organizers did a very good job and the courses were very crowded, but since I PR'd both, I can't complain too much.

Totals
Distance: 36 miles
Running time: 5h 45m
Strength/Pilates time: 50m
Total time: 6h 35m


ID: Strava training log

Coming up
Recovery week before transitioning into 10K training. @DopeyBadger should I adjust my training paces now that I have these races to show where I am currently? I'm not particular about easy paces, but I would like to train for a faster 10K now that I know I can definitely handle a sub-50 pace.

 

[Naomeri]

Great job!!

 

[avondale]

Congratulations on the PRs for both of your races! That's fantastic!

What time do you have to get to the corrals to be in a reasonable spot?

I forget - is this your first time doing the Cherry Blossom races? From your comments, it seems like it, but I'm not sure. I've never done the 5k, but I've done the 10-mile race several times. I don't live as close as you do (I'm in Silver Spring), but I can't imagine getting to the start as late as you did. Especially for a race this big. Even for small races, I like to get to the start area at least an hour before the start. Although for the 10-miler pre-pandemic, a friend of mine and I did get there at least that early, and it was already crowded chaos.

I didn't make it all the way to the starting area before I decided to slow to a walk. There were SO. MANY. PEOPLE. This is still a block from the Washington Monument (you can see it a little bit behind the trees), and it's already full of people headed for the race.

I really can't believe you managed to PR the races with the crowds they draw. I wouldn't even try, although I'm not as fast so I'd be starting farther back, even.

While lots of other big races do wave starts (Disney, RnR, etc.), as far as I can tell this one just let everybody go however quickly they could get to the starting line. This meant that the course was once again VERY crowded for the first several miles (and still moderately crowded after that).

The last time I did the 10-mile...hmm, it was the race that they shifted from April to September because of covid...was that 2021? They did do wave starts and held us for them. While we waited in the corrals, they played commentary over the loudspeakers about the elite racers who were already finishing (just kidding - we didn't start THAT late). Of course, my corral was so full that we didn't all fit in the corral and there was overflow out the back onto the grassy areas alongside the streets.

In general, the Cherry Blossom race(s) are quite unusual because they are run with a different philosophy. I'm not sure how that originated, but they do things differently, like how you can choose whether to buy a race shirt or medal, and do carbon offsets. They have a whole complicated way of giving away your race spot to a waiting list if you realize you can't do the race. Some of their ideas are reasonably cool, but I think that whatever their organizational structure is, it also ends up dropping the ball on a lot of things - like the expo lines you mentioned.

You really managed to overcome the problems in the race and really have a couple of great finishes! Congrats again!

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Congrats on your awesome races! Great job!!

Wooo! Great job!

Great job!!

Congratulations on the PRs for both of your races! That's fantastic!

Thank you!

I forget - is this your first time doing the Cherry Blossom races? From your comments, it seems like it, but I'm not sure. I've never done the 5k, but I've done the 10-mile race several times. I don't live as close as you do (I'm in Silver Spring), but I can't imagine getting to the start as late as you did. Especially for a race this big.

I did one other Cherry Blossom, but it was the weird Covid one in Sept. 2021 and I remember absolutely nothing about it except that I didn't train for it so I wasn't exactly zooming past people So I didn't really care where I started and I think they might have had fewer people as well.

I'm still trying to figure out timing for getting there early enough to get to the corrals but not having to stand around forever waiting for the race to start

I really can't believe you managed to PR the races with the crowds they draw.

I would not necessarily recommend this strategy per se It helped that that 2021 Cherry Blossom was the only other 10-Miler I had done, and like I said, I hadn't trained, so the PR for that one was pretty much a given.

In general, the Cherry Blossom race(s) are quite unusual because they are run with a different philosophy. I'm not sure how that originated, but they do things differently, like how you can choose whether to buy a race shirt or medal, and do carbon offsets. They have a whole complicated way of giving away your race spot to a waiting list if you realize you can't do the race.

I do think all of those are good things...but before you innovate, I feel like you should get the basics down? Overall I'm obviously happy with the weekend but I did find lots of things really frustrating that could easily have been fixed and that other races do just fine.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Way to crush another one! Truly having a breakthrough moment!

Recovery week before transitioning into 10K training. @DopeyBadger should I adjust my training paces now that I have these races to show where I am currently? I'm not particular about easy paces, but I would like to train for a faster 10K now that I know I can definitely handle a sub-50 pace.

You have 7 weeks until the 10k race. So you're inside that window of 6-8 weeks in which you may/may not full reap the benefits of changing training paces. If you were inside 6 weeks, then you'd strongly want to consider not changing training paces. If you were outside 8 weeks, then you're pretty safe to change training paces. You can approach it in two manners:

1) You change all paces to the new fitness level.
2) You only change the hard paces to the new fitness level. Keep the easy and long run days at the easier pace scheme.

Admittedly, the blind progressions coming up are going to blunt the need for newly defined paces. But there are a few 10k specific workouts coming up.

With all this in mind, your 5k and 10 miler both say a 49:12 10k goal, but you just did an unofficial 49:25 during the 10 miler. So even these paces may be underselling your actual current fitness level. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

View attachment 750781

Okay okay hang on. I just need a second to bask in this. So since my Sept. HM, give or take a couple of seconds:

• HM pace is now M pace
• 5K pace is now 10K pace
• CV (from M training) is now lactate threshold

This kind of jump is extremely unlikely to ever happen again since it's simply the result of starting to run consistently instead of just going for an occasional jog, and I know the improvements are going to level off soon, so I'm going to take a moment to go wheeeeeeeee!

ID: GIF of Emperor Cusco kicking the door in and saying, "Boom, baby!"

Okay, I'm back.

You can approach it in two manners:

1) You change all paces to the new fitness level.
2) You only change the hard paces to the new fitness level. Keep the easy and long run days at the easier pace scheme.

I'm thinking option 2 - if I'm feeling faster on easy days I won't worry about slowing down, but usually I'm pretty happy to run slowly so I will just keep doing that. But even if my fitness doesn't necessarily improve before the 10K, I'll at least have some more practice running at race pace. Tentatively I'll plan to start out at this pace and then pick it up in the last couple of miles if I'm feeling good (dependent, of course, on weather and how I'm feeling that day and so on).

Thanks!! And thanks to all of the training journal crew - I am certain that I wouldn't stay so consistent with my running if I didn't have this group to share experiences and advice. You all are the best!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Bask in all that glory, but also don't be so quick to sell yourself short either. The 1:52:51 HM predicted a 24:33 5k. You ran a 23:36. That's a 4% gain. That's a completely reasonable gain from one training plan to the next. I think based on your pacing and when you did which paced miles, I think there's still quite a bit of untapped gains to be made, and potentially even faster than a 4% rate. But I guess we'll see!

A reasonable place to start on trying to project ultimate fitness levels is about the average gain of 20-25% higher VDOT than your starting point race. Maybe around the 2:00 HM you started with in May 2022 to the 2:07 in March 2022 with little training between that and Thanksgiving. So that's a 34.1-36.5 starting point. Add 20-25% to that and the window is 40.9-45.6. That translates to a 1:39:00-1:49:00 HM. But that's average. Some see less gains than 20-25% from baseline, and some see much more.

 

[NYC_MW]

Double PR weekend , I'd say that deserves much more than a moment of wheeeee and much glory basking

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Today I was watching some race videos on YouTube and I got excited and signed up for the DC Half (Sept.) and the Army 10-Miler (Oct.)

I'm leaning towards racing the half, which is 6 weeks before MCM, and doing ATM at M pace as part of a bigger long run (4 weeks before MCM). But I've got a while yet to decide.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

April 3 - 9, 2023
Spring training week 10 of 16 | 42 days until Capitol Hill Classic 10K
In which the GAP strikes again

Monday
Planned: rest
Completed: rest

With two races over the weekend, it was nice to have a chance to relax a bit. My movement came from going to the pet store to pick up presents for my puppy's gotcha day

Tuesday
Planned: 3 miles easy
Completed: 3.17 miles easy (11:02)
Total: 34:59, 148 bpm
Plus: core

Finally, some pleasant morning weather. I am over all these 40º mornings. And it was good to ease back into things with a short easy run.

And it was the pupper's gotcha day! We celebrated with treats, snuggles, and an ostrich knuckle (also other presents but that was the best one).


ID: My dog chewing on one tentacle of a stuffed pentapus (which is like an octopus but for some reason only has 5 limbs).


ID: Dog enjoying his favorite treat ever, an ostrich knuckle.

Wednesday
Planned: 3 miles easy
Completed: 3.18 miles easy (10:42)
Total: 34:08, 145 bpm
Plus: lower body strength

Wednesdays are normally my quality sessions, so about halfway through this run, my legs started going, "Um, this is when we do faster, no?" Since I was not in fact doing a quality session, I kept the strength fairly easy too.

Thursday
Planned: rest
Completed: rest

I went into the office in the morning.

Friday
Planned: 5 miles easy + strides
Completed: 5.1 miles easy (10:44), strides
Total: 54:45, 150 bpm
Plus: Pilates

It was a little windy for me, but it went okay. But while my brain was saying, "Yup, all recovered here," my legs did not entirely agree. It's supposed to take what, a day per mile raced? I'm not sure if I should count the two races as concurrent or consecutive days, but either way I guess it's not surprising.

Saturday
Planned: 2 mile WU + 12 x 400m @ 10KP (7:55)/15s RI + 1 mile CD
Completed: 2 mile WU + 12 x 2 min @ a pace/15s RI + 1.39 mile CD
Interval split paces: 8:14, 7:17, 7:33, 7:46, 7:37, 7:42, 7:57, 7:51, 7:56, 7:33, 7:53, 7:44
GAP: 7:25, 7:26, 7:27, 7:15, 7:24, 7:41, 7:22, 7:38, 7:18, 7:44, 7:52, 7:39
Total: 6.79 miles, 1:03:43
Plus: upper body strength with short lower body

Well, since new 10K pace is the same as old 5K pace, you would think I would have been okay at this workout. And you would have been wrong. I am just not good at short intervals. It takes me some time to settle in, and I don't really have that when it's only 400 meters. (Side note: I did 2 minutes instead of 400 meters because I wasn't on a track, but it's more or less the same thing. Or it would have been if my pacing had been better.)

Plus, my effort level on this route doesn't always match what my watch says, which definitely makes it more challenging. This is the best route for workouts because it's on a paved trail, but as you can see the trail is not exactly flat.

I decided I shouldn't just do one strength session for upper body and one for lower body a week. So I'm trying to still focus on one each day but do a little bit of the other as well. That's why there's a 10-minute lower body routine in addition to the upper body work today. We'll see how it goes. That might mean I need to do strength training on long run days normally so that I'm not tiring out my legs too much beforehand though...

Sunday
Planned: 5 miles easy
Completed: 5.29 miles easy (10:21)
Total: 54:46, 152 bpm

I had swapped Saturday and Sunday's runs because I had Easter brunch plans and I knew I wouldn't have time for all of that before I had to leave. So this was just a quick easy run after the quality day. My legs were a little tired and it could really have been warmer, but the sun was nice and I felt decent considering. And then I had brunch. Happy Easter if you celebrate!

Totals
Distance: 23.55 miles
Running time: 4h 2m
Strength time: 55m
Core/Pilates: 19m
Total time: 5h 18m

A nice light week following the challenge. The DIS is not letting me add Strava charts today, so no training log

Coming up
Back to normal mileage, and a blind progression run which should be interesting. At least I'm not aiming for specific paces with this one? Plus, MW registration!