WWYD:the truth about Santa?

[Nom]

I also find it terribly sad that your neighbor's holiday is dependent on belief in a man in a red suit in order for it to be merry, and without that belief it is "ruined."Yikes.

ITA! I just don't get that, and I too think it is pretty sad.

I'm glad in a way that my dd does not believe in santa... then we can concentrate more on the real meaning of the holiday. Santa to me represents all that is commercial about christmas. I can't imagine families in which belief in him is a 'make or break' part of the holiday.

But I guess every families beliefs are different- and that's ok.

 

[livndisney]

Given your DD is in a diverse school it's possible these other children are Asian and celebrate Chinese New Year.

Asian children can believe in Santa too

My DD knows the reason for Christmas and she will be the first one to tell you. But she also belives in the magic of Santa. And yes we celebrate Chinese New Year and the Moon Festival. We also celebrate Easter and for Thanksgiving we eat Chinese food because we are thankful for China. I think we have a good balance.

 

[rt2dz]

Do you really believe that because my family does not believe in Santa, that means my child is inappropriately sexualized? that is a MAJOR stretch, and a bit offensive to not only me, but also the many many Jewish, Muslim and Christian families in this nation that don't celebrate Santa. Wow, just wow.

Your right. WOW! That would be a major stretch. That isn't even close to what was meant.

First, I'm not talking about a 3yo child; I'm talking about a 6yo child. I have a 6yo, they're not dumb. They ask questions. And some of those kids are starting to learn about the birds and the bees. Some 6yo kids are completely oblivious though. They won't learn about the birds and the bees for years. Personally, I want my kid to find out about it from me, in a way I deem appropriate--vocabulary, amount of and which information, moral context, etc. It DOES NOT mean that what another parent does is wrong--kids have different needs. Some kids just need small basics, some kids need more information. Everyone has different moral and religious beliefs. I want my child learning what I believe, in what I feel is appropriate for him, not what another family feels is right for their child. I know families that discuss sexual orientation with their children, since they have gay uncles. I have no problem with that, but my kids aren't ready for that yet. That is hardly "inappropriately sexualized".

Which brings me to my second "How the heck did you draw that conclusion from that statement?" I also stated that goes way beyond just the birds and the bees. That could refer to religion in general. Not that I care what anyone else's religion is. We're Christian, but my son was very interested in Hanukah this year. He checked out several books from the library on it. We discuss other religions openly. But we do also tell him that is not what we believe and we stick to main religions. Not that I feel this particular family was cult like--I still wouldn't want that information coming to my child. More likely other issues that I would be bothered about would be graphic violence--yes, I know kids at that age who play those "adult" video games--or perhaps simply telling them the characters at WDW are just dressed up people. DS6 knows that, but DS3 and DS2 haven't figured that out yet. They will when they're ready, but no one else needs to tell them. Actually, there was a friendship that I did not encourage because of his Christian views were all hellfire and brimstone and not age appropriate in my mind. My child did not need that information coming into a 4yo, he was becoming afraid of God and that isn't something I wanted. There may be other things that I just can't think of since they are foreign to me, but I know they exist. Every family and community is different.

Thirdly, that comment had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with a child not keeping something like that to himself. Again, I have a 6yo. He is more than capable of understanding what he can and can not say to others. Yes, not all children are that good--especially boys--and nobody is perfect. It's just something we repeatedly pound into our child's heads. Not a day goes by at WDW that we tell him to keep his mouth shut about the characters and when he quits believing in Santa, you'd better bet we'd be reminding him daily during the Christmas season. As I originally stated, it wouldn't have so much to do with Santa, but with not knowing what is appropriate to state to others and what isn't. How that can relate to religion and be offensive to every religion but Christianity is beyond me. There are also lots of Christians who do not "do Santa".

 

[rt2dz]

And rt2dz, if that's not quite what you meant, I apologize for speaking in your turn.

Actually, I had already replied before reading on since I was floored how that conclusion could have come from my statement. I wish I had read on further because you answered so much more elegantly and concisely than I did. And, thank you, I frequently do not get back to threads, and had I not this time, it would have been answered so nicely.

 

[rt2dz]

That's just not true- not everyone in the US is christian, and even some that are christian don't believe in santa. Does the poster want their children away from all kids who don't believe in santa, or just those christian kids that don't believe in santa? And just because my child does not believe in santa does not mean that her head is filled with other inappropriate adult things, which I what it seemed the previous poster was saying, to me. Just seemed bizzare. Anyway, like I said I was only mildy offended.

You’re right. I said most kids in the USA do believe in Santa. I did not say ALL. I did not say 99%. I said most. And that comes from actual data. 85% of people in the US polled say they are Christian. That means 15% are atheist, agnostic, Jewish, Muslim, Islamic, Buddhist, etc. Many who are atheist and agnostic do celebrate Christmas as a Yule Tide Celebration, which will include Santa, so when it comes to Santa, you need to add those back in. Doing a Google search I find the actual number including all non-believers, is 67% believe in Santa or at least did when younger—that poll included kids who have since found out the man in the red suit isn’t real. That is the majority—or “most”. And it is a stastical factual. I am simply looking at the big picture, not the individual case. And, yes, there will be communities within the US that have a different make-up, but again, it’s the big picture.

 

[DawnM]

Goodness, we have had so many, many threads about Santa. I honestly never thought much about how controversial he is until this year.

UGH! I have typed out several different responses but keep deleting as I know I will offend someone.

Oh well, I guess if you actually take a side on this you will offend!

I would carefully explain again to my child to be careful about sharing and then I would appologize and move on.

You do your part, and they must do theirs.

Dawn

 

[Shagley]

WOW - I can't believe all the STRONG opinions people have about kids believing in Santa Claus. I know it is fun when kids are little to have them believe in Santa, but sooner or later they find out the truth. It may be disappointing for them at first, but it isn't a life changing moment. My family does "believe" in Santa - as a fun part of Christmas - but we also know that many people do not believe in Santa. That is okay because we know that Santa only visits the houses of those who believe.

 

[rt2dz]

WOW! Thanks everyone for all of your opinions. Also for keeping this pretty much on topic and keeping it nice

I was also a little offended by this post. I too also understand the other mothers feelings. I sympathize with her feelings, I really do. I also feel like many other people that posted that if you want your child to believe you should be prepared to field questions your children may have from listening to their peers.

That being said... Just because we decided to celebrate Christmas with out Santa does not mean my children are over knowledgeable on adult issues. I think my neighbor knows this. My children are home schooled in part so I can protect them from information I do not want them to know yet. She knows we are very strict with our children and would like to keep them young and innocent as well (I have been accused many time of raising my children in a bubble). We have had many conversations about her beliefs and mine in the past. She also knew we didn’t celebrate Santa since I told her on Christmas Eve when she asked me if children were getting excited for Santa to come. That is what bothers me the most. I already told her they don't believe. I also told her how we handled it with our children. She knew they were told to keep the secret, unfortunately they are kids. "Filters" or not they will tell other kids things they have been told not to.

I’m very sorry you were offended by this post. I do not know you. All I meant to say is while I certainly would have reacted and handled it very differently than the other mother; I understood where she was coming from. I thought by stating why I felt that way, it might give you an understanding to why the other mother felt that way.

At the time, you had not stated that the other mother knew that your kids did not believe in Santa. To me, that changes things quite a bit. What I was thinking, is that the other mother probably did not have the slightest thought that your children might say something and was thrown off balance. And again, it was “filter questioning”, and not “sexualized inappropriately.” Also, I would not necessarily consider “Santa” and “adult topic”, but it is one of many topics that require some thinking before speaking—on either side of the issue. And it would (given the information I had at the time) given me pause for a while—but like I said, I would have gotten over it. Most kids do find out about Santa from other kids.

 

[rt2dz]

Wow!!! That's about the biggest leap I have ever seen. Kudos to you on that one.

My dds (8 and 5) know the truth. Dh and I went back and forth with my oldest; and for the first few years, it wasn't an issue. My dd knew that Santa was a character but never thought him to be a real person. It wasn't until others started asking her about Santa that she started to realize that people believed him to be real and not just a wonderful character in a lot of great stories, and it freaked her out. She was terrified at the thought of a stranger coming into our house while we were sleeping. It didn't matter that he was a kindly stranger and was bringing her presents. He was still a stranger, so our decision was made for us. We told her the truth. We also told her that this was a grown up secret and she was not to tell any of her friends. She loved feeling like a big kid and encouraging her friends in their belief. Then she'd look at me and give me a little smile.

Personally, I think the woman over reacted. She wants you to punish your son for being truthful? I also find it terribly sad that your neighbor's holiday is dependent on belief in a man in a red suit in order for it to be merry, and without that belief it is "ruined."Yikes.

Oh and for what it is worth. My dds know the grown up Santa secret, but they do not yet know about the birds and the bees. Of course, when the time comes, we will be open and honest abut that, too.

Oh, GOOD GRIEF!!

My kids have tons of friends. I have many friends. I know my neighbors. I like most my neighbors. I talk with them and my kids play with their kids. It does not mean I know all of them extremely well, even my neighbors. (And no, my children aren't left in people's homes that we barely know--for those who will go there.) The way our community is set up, our closest friends don’t even live in our neighborhood except one or two—and they’re two miles away!!

From my point-of-view and the information the OP gave, I would seriously question what the children knew and when. A 6yo knowing about the birds and the bees isn’t out of line. “Hey, mom, how did the baby get in my teachers tummy?” “How do you know who the daddy is since cousin Sue isn’t married?” “So how does the baby get out of your tummy?” Some kids accept the very basic answers. Some don’t and probe further. My 6yo and his friends can’t be that advanced.

And then there is the you-don’t-really-know-what-your-kids-know thing. My sister was shocked when she had her third child and found out her oldest knew nothing and her middle child knew EVERYTHING. One would assume that they may have at least been warned not to say anything about Santa, but what have they not been told not to say anything about since the parents might not even know they do know. My oldest is the only oldest child in his class, the rest of the kids in his class are youngest children. It floors me the things he comes up with because so-and-so’s older brother/sister… Not necessarily bad things, but just in general. We don’t really do video games in my household, but thanks to older siblings of friends, we now have them. And my younger children have followed at a much younger age.

And AGAIN, since it was mentioned in the first post I made, it is not limited to “the birds and the bees”. Heck, look at how many people here freak out about kids watching the news!

My kids do not live in a bubble. I am very pro expose-them-to-life. My kids are allowed to watch the news with me. They can go online, but only to sites I have pre-approved. I am not blind to the realities, but I want them exposed in a manner I deem appropriate.

I would not have handled it the same way the other mother did. I understood—empathized—with her feelings to a certain point—I would not have expected, or even wanted, the OP’s child “punished”. I would have felt the same way about certain things, temporarily. But my kids are prepared. Christmas isn’t about “Santa”. And they are taught more of where Santa originated—believe it or not, he is originated in reality, not a Coke commercial or from Macy’s, and has a strong religious connection. There is not a lot of emphasis on a fat man in a red suit that comes down a chimney in our family. I truly feel sorry for those who don’t believe in Santa, because I believe they are missing out on a big part of a caring, giving aspect of Christmas. BUT, if it is all about the commercialization for you, then I understand why.

 

[SGMCO]

I think it's sad that only the young child is brave enough to tell the truth while the adults aren't.
What does Santa have to do with Christ?
Chrismas is not originally a Christian Celibration but was celebrated by
people who worshiped the SUN GOD--hence putting up lights for the
winter soltice. Evergreen Trees, ect.
If you look at any Encyclopedia even Catholic ones it will tell you
the origin is not Christian.
How do you think Jesus feels about people putting his good name
on a Holiday that was not even celibrated by the 1st Century Christians?
You can't make some bad into Good!
Flame away because it is the Truth.

 

[brandylouwho]

I bet the kids aren't even thinking about this Santa issue anymore... even though the parents and apparently all of us are still all worked up about it.

I don't think the OP son should be punished, but it is a valuable life lesson for him to put himself in his friend's shoes, it will help him to empahtize with others and to hopefully not spill the beans to other kids in the future. That alone is probably a sort of punishment in and of itself. He apparently did not say this to be mean or spiteful he will probably feel bad for hurting her feeling. It will help him to learn about those "filters" for future reference.

The mom (of the girl) seems to have completely overreacted. The Holidays can be such a stressful and emotional time for people, hopefully she has cooled off by now. I think a short apology for how it made them feel wouldn't hurt, but if she is still ranting about how Christmas was ruined, etc than I suspect there are deeper issues here than just one kid telling another that Santa isn't real.

We do Santa in our house and I think my 4 year old still believes, but she is not completely gullable. I know she is already questioning it all. The wheels in her mind are already turning and I expect within a year or two the truth will come out. I will not make a big deal out of it. I will be a little sad & at the same time proud of her for reaching that next level in her understanding of the world. I would be mroe worried if she were 10 and still really believed in Santa.

It is not unlike going to Disney, where she knows it isn't THE Mickey Mouse, but is still excited to see him & the other characters.


BTW I don't even remember when I learned that Santa wasn't exactly what or who I was led to believe...but I know that it did not ruin the excitement of waking up to find presents under the tree on Christmas morning.

 

[Feralpeg]

We do Santa in our house and I think my 4 year old still believes, but she is not completely gullable. I know she is already questioning it all. The wheels in her mind are already turning and I expect within a year or two the truth will come out. I will not make a big deal out of it. I will be a little sad & at the same time proud of her for reaching that next level in her understanding of the world. I would be mroe worried if she were 10 and still really believed in Santa.

Gosh, that makes me kind of sad. At 4 years old, kids are questioning the existence of Santa. My DD was 11 before she gave up the belief. IMHO, kids grow up way to fast and lose the magic way to early.

 

[trivial]

Flame away because it is the Truth.

With a capitol T! If you're not comfortable celebrating Christmas, then don't. I'm not sure what your expectation is in sharing that you disagree with it, however; I don't think anyone was asking if people thought it was okay that they celebrate Christmas. I'm comfortable with it, so I will, and I'll do you the favor of not thumping you over the head with it.

 

[wilderness01]

Gosh, that makes me kind of sad. At 4 years old, kids are questioning the existence of Santa. My DD was 11 before she gave up the belief. IMHO, kids grow up way to fast and lose the magic way to early.

I completely agree.

 

[DawnM]

I don't find it sad at all. 4 year olds are pretty smart and usually will start to wonder about things. It is the parent who perpetuates the Santa thing when asked questions about it.

Dawn

Gosh, that makes me kind of sad. At 4 years old, kids are questioning the existence of Santa. My DD was 11 before she gave up the belief. IMHO, kids grow up way to fast and lose the magic way to early.

 

[grlpwrd]

WOW! Thanks everyone for all of your opinions. Also for keeping this pretty much on topic and keeping it nice

I was also a little offended by this post. I too also understand the other mothers feelings. I sympathize with her feelings, I really do. I also feel like many other people that posted that if you want your child to believe you should be prepared to field questions your children may have from listening to their peers.

That being said... Just because we decided to celebrate Christmas with out Santa does not mean my children are over knowledgeable on adult issues. I think my neighbor knows this. My children are home schooled in part so I can protect them from information I do not want them to know yet. She knows we are very strict with our children and would like to keep them young and innocent as well (I have been accused many time of raising my children in a bubble). We have had many conversations about her beliefs and mine in the past. She also knew we didn’t celebrate Santa since I told her on Christmas Eve when she asked me if children were getting excited for Santa to come. That is what bothers me the most. I already told her they don't believe. I also told her how we handled it with our children. She knew they were told to keep the secret, unfortunately they are kids. "Filters" or not they will tell other kids things they have been told not to.

How ironic.

It seems like you are insulating your son with homeschooling so you can "protect him" yet he did exactly the opposite for others.

 

[Ask"WhyNot?"]

I understand the mother being upset, although I do think she way over reacted. However, I do feel that there is more to the story than we are being told. Maybe even more than the OP knows.

Why I think that:
*The beans were spilled after Christmas
*What child stops believing the first time they are told there is no Santa? I have 5 kids from littler to college and many, many nieces and nephews--none have stopped immediately; coming to a conclusion that Santa isn't a person usually takes 1-2 years.
*The over reaction of the mother

I think it is a shame that so many parents perpetuate growing up so early. Really, should our 10yo olds be worshipping the Lindsey Lohan's and Brittany Spears of the world? Look at Jamie Lynn Spears for that answer. Cartoons shouldn't be ditched for High School Musical in Kindergarten.

What I also don't get is why it is so important to tell your kids Santa isn't real. Especially if your child is only 3 and the reason is supposedly because of their fear? They may get over their fear as they age (as most kids do--I don't have a single picture of a child, niece or nephew with Santa at 2 since they were all terrified of him!). I don't have a problem with not celebrating Santa; everyone makes their own choices, but why not have a little more wiggle room. Or at least make it so your kid isn't the one who tells everyone else, especially if you do think your kid can't be trusted to filter 100%? Why not just say "We don't celebrate with Santa." Much in the same way you do/do not celebrate with friends and family. If your kid pushes, just say it's a tradition you choose not to participate in. It gives kids more time/ability to decide for themselves and ensures not ruining the fantasy for anyone else. Oh well, hindsight.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

What I also don't get is why it is so important to tell your kids Santa isn't real. Especially if your child is only 3 and the reason is supposedly because of their fear? They may get over their fear as they age (as most kids do--I don't have a single picture of a child, niece or nephew with Santa at 2 since they were all terrified of him!). I don't have a problem with not celebrating Santa; everyone makes their own choices, but why not have a little more wiggle room. Or at least make it so your kid isn't the one who tells everyone else, especially if you do think your kid can't be trusted to filter 100%? Why not just say "We don't celebrate with Santa." Much in the same way you do/do not celebrate with friends and family. If your kid pushes, just say it's a tradition you choose not to participate in. It gives kids more time/ability to decide for themselves and ensures not ruining the fantasy for anyone else. Oh well, hindsight.

In MY family, we never told them that Santa wasn't real, we just never made a big deal out of it. They knew all about Santa from books and the TV. We never told them whether the characters at WDW were real or pretend either.

We have been going to WDW since DD8 was 8 months old, 1-3 times a year. They just figured it out themselves. They asked me why other kids thought the characters at Disney were "real" - it's TV, everything is pretend, even the actors.

They were around 3 and 5 when this conversation happened. I told them that lots of kids believe that they are real and their parents want them to because "just look at their faces." My kids agreed and basically said "yeah, we shouldn't tell them the secret!"

When the topic of Santa came up, they just said "oh, it's just like how they believe that the characters are real." They are tickled that they know the "truth." I always make sure that they are still in the "mind set" of not telling them the truth since their parents still want them to believe.

They also know that the Tooth Fairy is Mommy and do say "Thank you ToothFairy" to me in the morning.

What FLOORED me is when they asked me in the car one day when I was DRIVING, "is JESUS real?!!!!!!!!" I asked casually "what do you girls think?" They went through all the Disney characters, Santa, ToothFairy, Easter Bunny, etc. After talking about it between the 2 of them in the back seat, they came to a consesus, "Mommy, all those are pretend but Jesus is real." That was the MOST touching moment fo me, I'm so glad they knew which was which when it could have been potentially confusing for a kid.

It is actually HARDER for them to keep the secret now that they are 8 and 6. DD8 came home THIS year to complain that her friend insisted that Santa was real and wanted to know if he was going to visit our house. She asked me what should she say. I told her to not say anything. Smile and play dumb and change the subject and if she STILL asks to just say, you aren't sure. She said "ok" and the subject was over.

 

[Anne34]

I think it's sad that only the young child is brave enough to tell the truth while the adults aren't.
What does Santa have to do with Christ?
Chrismas is not originally a Christian Celibration but was celebrated by
people who worshiped the SUN GOD--hence putting up lights for the
winter soltice. Evergreen Trees, ect.
If you look at any Encyclopedia even Catholic ones it will tell you
the origin is not Christian.
How do you think Jesus feels about people putting his good name
on a Holiday that was not even celibrated by the 1st Century Christians?
You can't make some bad into Good!
Flame away because it is the Truth.

Since when is there a Catholic encyclopedia??? Some people are going a little off base here. Did you mean Catholic version of the Bible?
We believe in Santa and I would say 90% of the kids at my children's school do too. I would be angry is a 5/6 year old told my child there was no Santa, but I would also do the "Do you think I really buy all those things that Santa does???

It really seems that the fundamentalist Christains are the ones that don't believe and really push Christmas only as Christ's birth. We believe in the magic of Santa too -- he give things to people and helps them feel happy and magical. (kind of like Disney). We have also encouraged the kids to be secret Santas to people in need.

 

[kjetjl]

In my opinion, the mother overreacted.
I personally did not want to "do the Santa thing." I am Catholic but it was at preschool that the teacher pretty much shoved it down my oldest's throat. He believed so we went with it.
My dd (second child) came home in kdg. saying that the older kids on the bus told her it was the parents who put the gifts under the tree at night when everyone was sleeping. My dd's answer, "not my mom, she is way too tired to do all that!" When she asked me about it, I pretty much asked her what she thought about it and I left it at that. She went on to believe until she was 9. But she was one unhappy camper when she learned that dad and I had been "lying" to her all that time. Not my words but hers. Goodness, I really didn't know how to reply to that.
I still want to spill the beans to the youngest four but the oldest two are so into it because they get to stuff the stockings, etc and help buy the gifts.
I personally think that Santa has become so secularized that I would not say you had to be Christian to believe in him. Many friends have their kids believe in Santa but are certainly not Christian.
I think your son writing a note of apology was an excellent response to it all.