WWYD - High School Parents

[Magpie]

So if someone slaps your face and it only hurts briefly there should be no penalty? I mean, you aren't suffering a *lasting* consequence, right?

No, they should be punished because aside from your pain mattering, they've also caused you to have to wonder who else is going to violate you randomly. The victim here now has to wonder who else is a thief and a cheat. She's lost the ability to trust her classmates to behave with a modicum of honor- as has the teacher.

We need to raise our children to be accountable for their actions. The fault here is NOT with the victim feeling misused. The fault is with the thief and the people who are oh so quick to excuse her behavior as no big deal.

Yes, it's a big deal. But, the girl was not physically assaulted. She had something stolen, the thief was caught, and her "property" (her grade and her reputation as a conscientious student) was restored.

Since it's not MY job to punish another person's child, and since legally the principal isn't even allowed to talk to me about that child, I'd let it go.

The girl whose work was stolen can be proud of herself for having the foresight to write her name on the back of her papers. She can also take a certain pride in knowing she has a reputation as someone whose papers are worth stealing, as well. And she'll always write her name in pen from now on.

I sincerely hope she's psychologically healthy enough that she's not "lost her ability to trust" classmates who had nothing to do with "violating" her. But even if she's not, that doesn't change the fact that her parents have no right to dictate another child's punishment. If they want to lobby for more stringent rules around academic fraud at the board level, that's fine. But they can't let it become a personal vendetta against the other child.

 

[Magpie]

If a guy steals your car and you get it back, do you consider justice served because he no longer has your car?

If the guy who stole my car happens to be a minor child, I will never know what happened to him. I'll never know why he stole my car either, or what kind of punishment (if any) he'll ever face.

So yes... I'll be happy I got my car back, in one piece. And if there's a full tank of gas, that's a bonus.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If the guy who stole my car happens to be a minor child, I will never know what happened to him. I'll never know why he stole my car either, or what kind of punishment (if any) he'll ever face.

So yes... I'll be happy I got my car back, in one piece. And if there's a full tank of gas, that's a bonus.

That's not what she asked. You may or may not know (by reading court notes in your newspaper or calling the DA) what the punishment was even if the can't tell you the identity of the minor - if, indeed, the thief actually was a minor not already known to you.

Mama Who asked specifically "If a guy steals your car and you get it back, do you consider justice served because he no longer has your car?"

You didn't answer her question. If a person of any age stole anything from you, would you consider justice served simply because you got the item back?
What if it's a rocking chair or planter from your front porch?
How about a bag of groceries while you're unloading your cart into your car at the supermarket?
Your coat from a bed at a friend's party or an unmanned coatroom at a function hall?
Your homework/paper/test?
The credit for the major project you did at work?
Your car?
Your identity?
Your child?

You get the object or the grade or the credit or the person (forget about your identity - that's going to take ages to fix, if it's ever completely resolved) back - so all is forgiven? That's a genuinely great attitude, but I have a hard time believing anyone would actually react like that in the victim's shoes.

Gotta tell ya, I was held up at knifepoint once. I got back everything except the $10 or so in my wallet. That didn't make me feel ANY more compassionate toward my attacker, and it truly wasn't about the money.

 

[Mama Who]

If the guy who stole my car happens to be a minor child, I will never know what happened to him. I'll never know why he stole my car either, or what kind of punishment (if any) he'll ever face.

So yes... I'll be happy I got my car back, in one piece. And if there's a full tank of gas, that's a bonus.

You're avoiding the actual question and pardon me if I do not believe that you'd really be hung up on WHY he stole your car. I have trouble believing that you'd shrug and walk off and think it was punishment enough that he didn't get to keep your car.

 

[disney1990]

My DD just finished her sophomore year. Towards the end of the term, it came up that she had two assignments missing. One was a take-home quiz and the other was a take home test. She was certain that she turned them in so she discussed it with her teacher. The teacher could not find them after looking several times. She went through her paperwork again on the last day of school and found something she thought was weird. She emailed me and asked that DD come in and verify something for her.

The next day DD went to school to meet with the teacher. It turned out that another student had taken DD's papers, erased DD's name and replaced it with her own. Fortunately DD had written her name on the back side of both papers and the other student missed that. The teacher was angry, DD was angry and I was angry. I drove up to school to talk to the principal. He had left so I spoke to one of the assistants. I asked what the punishment was for stealing another student's homework. She told me that if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments. I was angry about that. She would have gotten that just for not doing the work. Where is the punishment for her theft from my DD? Not only did she steal from my DD, she took the items from the teacher's in basket and the teacher really felt that her trust in students was violated as well. I left and decided I would take it up with the principal.

I called and left a message with the principal to please call me to discuss and forwarded the emails to him that had gone back and force between the math teacher and myself. He was out of the office for a week, but did call me this week. He pretty much told me the same thing. I kept pushing for a more drastic punishment. He did not agree. I told him that I had researched it and many high schools would either fail the student altogether in the class or at least give an imcomplete and require the student to attend summer school. I also mentioned that academic fraud is generally grounds for dismissal in college.

I kept pushing and I could tell he was getting angry with me. I kept calm and would not back down. He finally told me that whatever punishment was given was none of my business due to student privacy issues. I told him that it was really pathetic that the student would get a more strenuous punishment if she had stolen my dd's cell phone or ipod. He admitted that she would have, because he could call the police and file charges. I also reminded him that pretty much every teacher in the school requires students to use www.turnitin.com for every paper they turn in to check for plagiarism, yet stealing two math assisgnments is apparently ok with them.

He kept up with the stuff about privacy laws and that she would be dealt with. I ended the conversation and was not real happy. I ended up leaving a message with the math teacher asking her what she thinks I should do. I really feel that if nothing else, the girl should be forced to apologize to my dd and the teacher agreed with me.

I am wondering if I should take it further up the chain. Should I contact the school board or the superintendent? My former co-worker is the Assistant superintendent's secretary and would make sure I could talk to him. Should I just let it drop? My dh and I really feel that this girl needs to understand that what she did was serious and just losing credit for the assignments is not a strong enough deterrent.

What do you think I should do?

I know you are upset. But, I am surprised that the school discussed the other girl with you at all. In our school system, you would not have known who did it or what their punishment would be -- it's a privacy matter.

 

[YodaGirl]

From my perspective, your child has had reasonable justice--her grades have been restored. What you seem to want is revenge against the other child and that is a whole other ball game and really not appropriate.

I agree 100%!

I dont think it paranoid if its true is it? unless the inmate did not grow up in USA he/she did go to school unless they were home schooled. And I'm sory I did not see any were in OP that said the quiz and test were in the same pile. I did asume test and homework would not be laying together in same stack at same time. I could be worng though.

Yes, every person who is in jail and grew up in the USA went to school at some point.

Every person who cheats doesn't end up a criminal. It just means that they made poor choices. I cheated on a couple of vocabulary quizes in Spanish III, and I turned in one paper to two different classes. Kids do dumb things. No, I was never caught. My only run-in with the law (with the exception of an unofficial speeding warning when I was in college) was when DH forgot to pay the car registration and I ended up in traffic court.

I think making rubber stamps for your kids might be a tad overboard. Fine, have them write their name in ink, but I definitely don't see the need in stamps.

The kicker? I'm now a preschool teacher.

 

[Magpie]

That's not what she asked. You may or may not know (by reading couture notes in your newspaper or calling the DA) what the punishment was even if the can't tell you the identity of the minor - if, indeed, the thief actually was a minor not already known to you.

A stolen car would never make the papers. Especially if it was returned. If the PARENTS felt like telling me what punishment the thief got, that'd be nice. But I don't believe they're obliged to. And I've never heard of a D.A. that was willing to violate the confidentiality rights of a minor child.

Mama Who asked specifically "If a guy steals your car and you get it back, do you consider justice served because he no longer has your car?"

You didn't answer her question. If a person of any age stole anything from you, would you consider justice served simply because you got the item back?

I'd say it depends.

What if it's a rocking chair or planter from your front porch?

Yes, definitely, I'd be happy to just have my chair and/or planter back! I'd hate to see a kid strung up and pilloried over a planter. This one I'll be happy to leave in the hands of the parents, and NO, they have no obligation to tell me what they're doing to punish the child.

How about a bag of groceries while you're unloading your cart into your car at the supermarket?

Yeah, that's happened to me, and not only was the thief never caught, but I never got my groceries back. If I could get my groceries back, I wouldn't really care if the thief got away.

Your coat from a bed at a friend's party or an unmanned coatroom at a function hall?

Depends on the circumstance. IF the thief was a child and all my belongings were returned, then I'd turn the matter over to their parents.

Your homework/paper/test?

It's a matter for the principal and the parents of the child. I may find out through the grapevine, but I don't expect an official report.

The credit for the major project you did at work?

How would a child steal the credit for a major project I did at work? It's a different matter when adults are involved. Too many variables here anyway. Is there a union? Is it a big company or a small business? Do I have a personal relationship with this person?

Your car?

That's a matter for the police. Can't have an underage driver joyriding in my car.

Your identity?

Ah, now finally here's something serious. Identity theft cannot be "returned". Once your information is out there, it's out there forever. So this is actual permanent harm done, unlike all your other scenarios in which the item is returned undamaged. It's a matter for the police. And I'll be too busy trying to repair the damage to wonder what happened to the minor who did it.

Your child?

What, a child has kidnapped my child??? Clearly another matter for the police.

You get the object or the grade or the credit or the person (forget about your identity - that's going to take ages to fix, if it's ever completely resolved) back - so all is forgiven? That's a genuinely great attitude, but I have a hard time believing anyone would actually react like that in the victim's shoes.

I've had things stolen from me before. When my groceries were taken, I was annoyed, but I decided to view it as an involuntary donation to the poor (or mentally disturbed).

My husband's car was broken into and rifled through and we lost a jackknife. We counted our lucky stars that the car's locks weren't damaged and we had nothing more valuable in there. We reported it to the cops in case they were keeping tabs on that sort of thing, and then we let it go. We never heard anything more about it, and we're fine with that.

My neighbour's house was broken into and while the cops were kind enough to tell her that it was "kids" that did it, we never found out who they were or what happened to them. She spent the next year dealing with her insurance company to get everything fixed and replaced.

I'm not one for holding grudges. It's a waste of my energy. And I'm not interested in parenting other people's children either.

So YES, I would and have actually reacted like that.

Gotta tell ya, I was held up at knifepoint once. I got back everything except the $10 or so in my wallet. That didn't make me feel ANY more compassionate toward my attacker, and it truly wasn't about the money.

Seriously? You're comparing a switched name on a paper to being HELD UP at KNIFE POINT? I have every sympathy for the trauma you've gone through, but that's like comparing a nasty comment to a death threat made at gunpoint and saying they're the same thing.

You're avoiding the actual question and pardon me if I do not believe that you'd really be hung up on WHY he stole your car. I have trouble believing that you'd shrug and walk off and think it was punishment enough that he didn't get to keep your car.

I'm saying, just like the OP, I'll never know whether he was punished or not.

 

[spacemountainmom]

I just have to say that some of you people are pretty unbelievable and read waaaaay to much into stuff.

I never said I have a vendetta against the girl or want revenge. I believe that she should be punished for NOT doing her work AND the THEFT of dd's work. You all make me sound like I want her put in the stockade and lashed publically. I feel the school's policy is lax and BOTH aspects of the girl's misdeeds should be addressed. As the school year had ended, I wanted the principal's assurance that she would be dealt with and not forgotten about over the course of the summer. I realize that kids can do stupid things, but really, a 17 year old should know better.

Yeah, if I really was as over the top as you all say, I'd be calling the girl's parents and demanding that she be punished appropriately. Maybe I'll call the police and file a report for the theft of my dd's intellectual property.

For the record, after discussing this with dd's teacher - She told me that she thought I should pursue a further course of action with the principal. I guess she didn't think the zeros were an appropriate punishment either.

I guess I may never know what happens - so be it, but I do know that what comes around goes around.

 

[Magpie]

I just have to say that some of you people are pretty unbelievable and read waaaaay to much into stuff.

I never said I have a vendetta against the girl or want revenge. I believe that she should be punished for NOT doing her work AND the THEFT of dd's work. You all make me sound like I want her put in the stockade and lashed publically. I feel the school's policy is lax and BOTH aspects of the girl's misdeeds should be addressed. As the school year had ended, I wanted the principal's assurance that she would be dealt with and not forgotten about over the course of the summer. I realize that kids can do stupid things, but really, a 17 year old should know better.

Yeah, if I really was as over the top as you all say, I'd be calling the girl's parents and demanding that she be punished appropriately. Maybe I'll call the police and file a report for the theft of my dd's intellectual property.

For the record, after discussing this with dd's teacher - She told me that she thought I should pursue a further course of action with the principal. I guess she didn't think the zeros were an appropriate punishment either.

I guess I may never know what happens - so be it, but I do know that what comes around goes around.

Actually, you sound quite sane, even if you're pursuing it further than I would. I was responding more to the folks comparing this to major theft, and physical assault.

I'm not sure you'll ever find out exactly what punishment the girl is or is not getting, as I don't think the principal can tell you. However... something my school does a lot is arrange a sit down meeting with all parties. If you tell the principal you want your daughter to have a chance to talk to the girl, in the office, with her parents present - especially if you tell him you want to "mediate" or "mend fences" - he might agree. And then you might get some closure on whether she's learned any kind of lesson from all this.

 

[3boymthr]

While I don't think you are wrong to want to see the punishment carried thru I don't know that realistically if you will ever know if this happened. I do feel that you should have the right to demand that the child apologize to your child. She did something that caused stress and trauma, at the very least an apology is warranted.

DD saw the girl at our community festival last night so it doesn't seem that she's in too much trouble with her parents.

You can't be sure that she wasn't punished. I never withhold simple activities from my children, I never ground them. OTH - there are punishments and there are consequences when they do things wrong. Some parents punish by making the child do massive amounts of chores (cleaning out the attic, basement, all the bathrooms for a month, etc.). I can think of other punishments as well (taking away phone, internet, etc.) Sometimes the punishments are small, sometimes they are large.

I went back and read your original post. It states that "if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments". They didn't state that her parents would be notified so you also have to consider that if the girl was simply given zeros on the assignments the parents may not know that anything happened other than that their child got some bad grades. Parents: "why did you get a D" - child: "I just didn't get it this year I did really poorly and got a few Fs". Since the school years is over they may or may not talk to the principal or the teacher about the grade.

 

[spacemountainmom]

Actually, you sound quite sane, even if you're pursuing it further than I would. I was responding more to the folks comparing this to major theft, and physical assault.

I'm not sure you'll ever find out exactly what punishment the girl is or is not getting, as I don't think the principal can tell you. However... something my school does a lot is arrange a sit down meeting with all parties. If you tell the principal you want your daughter to have a chance to talk to the girl, in the office, with her parents present - especially if you tell him you want to "mediate" or "mend fences" - he might agree. And then you might get some closure on whether she's learned any kind of lesson from all this.

I'm sorry. I got very tired of the people who keep saying I have a vendetta and one person did in fact call me crazy - NICE! I would prefer a stronger punishment be mandated, that does not mean I have a vendetta or am crazy. A large part of why things have gotten so bad in this country is that no one is held accountable for their actions. I don't feel this girl was either.

The teacher asked for an apology and so did I. I was told that wasn't going to happen. Kids in our elementary school are often required to do a written apology for an infraction. I work in the middle school that feeds this high school and our kids are often required to apologize in person and follow up in writing. I told that to the principal as well. I think it might be a good idea for her to have to face my dd and apologize, I guess the principal does not agree with that.

 

[luvsJack]

If a guy steals your car and you get it back, do you consider justice served because he no longer has your car?

uhmmm. there is a difference there. There is no monetary value on the papers. The charge for stealing the car has to do with the monetary value of a car.

There is also the fact that this child's punishment is dealt out by a SCHOOL and a car theifs by a JUDGE in a courtroom. Bit of a difference there.

I think that comparing this incident to a major crime like stealing cars, robbing banks or kidnapping children is a bit extreme and ridiculous. This is a matter for the school to handle and they will do so as they see fit. Plain and simple.

If it was my child, I would be gladd dd got her papers back and maybe we would brainstorm ways to prevent it from happening, I would not expect to have any say so in what happens to the other child

I consider justice served because the SCHOOL IS HANDLING IT. Just because they are not handling it to the OP's satisfaction does not mean it isn't handled.

As for the OP, she needs to let it go. She has no control here.

 

[spacemountainmom]

While I don't think you are wrong to want to see the punishment carried thru I don't know that realistically if you will ever know if this happened. I do feel that you should have the right to demand that the child apologize to your child. She did something that caused stress and trauma, at the very least an apology is warranted.




You can't be sure that she wasn't punished. I never withhold simple activities from my children, I never ground them. OTH - there are punishments and there are consequences when they do things wrong. Some parents punish by making the child do massive amounts of chores (cleaning out the attic, basement, all the bathrooms for a month, etc.). I can think of other punishments as well (taking away phone, internet, etc.) Sometimes the punishments are small, sometimes they are large.

I went back and read your original post. It states that "if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments". They didn't state that her parents would be notified so you also have to consider that if the girl was simply given zeros on the assignments the parents may not know that anything happened other than that their child got some bad grades. Parents: "why did you get a D" - child: "I just didn't get it this year I did really poorly and got a few Fs". Since the school years is over they may or may not talk to the principal or the teacher about the grade.

The teacher told both my dd and I that she notified the parents. This was confirmed to me by the Assistant Principal.

 

[bumbershoot]

I know you are upset. But, I am surprised that the school discussed the other girl with you at all. In our school system, you would not have known who did it or what their punishment would be -- it's a privacy matter.

She said that the teacher showed the paper to the daughter, to verify that it was the girl's paper...this allowed the daughter to know and the daughter told the OP. That's what I read, at least.

She told me that if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments

I think that there's a lot of emotion coming from an "if, then" statement. You just don't know IF it's a first time. Since it's up to the principal, perhaps the principal just hasn't found out if this is a first time offense, and/or what might be done if it's a second/third/etc offense.

It's not your business.

If someone takes your CC info and charges up a storm, whether the theft was from your wallet in person or from Russia via an email server, the CC owner has NO RIGHT to know who it was. The punishment is taken over by the CC company, since they will restore your money, and it's not considered theft *from you* once you are made whole again. Just not your business. THAT is what you need to drop. The wanting to know that the student will be punished severely.


If I had been the student whose papers were hijacked, I'd be bothered by it even now, I'm sensitive and these things eat at me. But it still wouldn't be my business what happened to the other student.

...so be it, but I do know that what comes around goes around.

You've now said the same sort of karma thing twice. Remember, karma, if you believe in it (and you say you do), affects *everyone*. It isn't just a punishment when it suits us. There's a reason that the girl did this, she will have consequences because of what she chose to do...but there's also a reason that it happened to your daughter. Perhaps it is so that you could post here and offer the idea of signing both sides of papers/tests/homework! It might be a teaching reason like that. Or maybe something happened that you don't know about, and this is your daughter's comeuppance for that. I won't even get into the more mystical things that a believer in karma will believe in. But just be careful when professing belief in karma...lots of responsibility involved in that sort of belief, and I think that most people on message boards don't REALLY believe in karma, especially when they are describing it as being a "witch"...




Hugs to your daughter, work your ways out of this...you've done a good thing in giving your daughter's idea of signing both sides of papers...this will help others in her school, people here, etc etc. Be good with that, because it's pretty good!

 

[kaytieeldr]

How would a child...

Ot appears that, as with Mama Who's question, you didn't actually read what was being asked. I specifically said, "If a person of any age stole anything..."

I believe that she should be punished for NOT doing her work

Right. The same two zero grades that she would have gotten for not doing the work, and that she's now going to get for... not doing the work. Either way, she's getting two zeroes. That's not any kind of punishment for stealing work from another student.

AND the THEFT of dd's work.

Again Giving a student the same 0 grade whether they just plain don't do the work or steal somebody else's work and turn it in as their own isn't any type of disciplinary action. The same result either way isn't going to stop someone from doing the same thing again, just more slyly. It's not going to compel them to actually study and do their own homework.

And again, this isn't even like plagiarizing. In that type of stealing, the thief harms only themselves, not the person who did the original work. This time, the other student got caught - because she stole two assignments from the same classmate; because that student takes an extra step to ID her work; because she was positive she turned in all work; because her teacher believed her and investigated?

Better than even chance she's done this before - but to any other victim only one time each and with a homework assignment that didn't count for so much of the grade.

 

[goofy!]

The teacher told both my dd and I that she notified the parents. This was confirmed to me by the Assistant Principal.

I would seriously be worried about the teacher and the school if they are so lax with privacy policies.

They showed your daughter the paper with the other child's name not covered?
They told you they contacted the parents?
The teacher discussed with you that she was concerned this student had done it to other kids, amongst other things.

Discussing anything about the other student with you is in violation of privacy laws and I would be very, very leary of any school who paid so little attention to their own rules. How can you expect kids to follow rules if the administration is so lax with theirs?

You should be told that the incident will be dealt with, period.

You may not like it in this case, but if something would happen to your daughter, you would want her privacy protected at all costs and not discussed with other parents.

 

[MrsPete]

The other teachers at the high school need to be warned of this situation immediately. Other kids missing assignments could be victims of theft by the same girl or possibly others who thought this was a good idea to make up for missing grades. I'm not sure how a student could steal an assignment off of a teacher's desk twice with no one noticing.

It's pretty easy for a kid to take another kid's work: Imagine you're in a high school class taking a quiz or test. Typically the teacher'd give out an assignment to begin after the quiz is over, then give the quiz . . . with instructions to bring it up to the teacher's desk when they're finished. So a student who wants to switch a quiz -- remember, kids can be devious -- waits 'til someone raises a hand and the teacher is over on the other side of the room answering a question . . . and the kid goes up and writes her name on the other kids' quiz. OR the kid comes up later and says, "I'm not sure I put my name on the quiz".

The first time I heard of this was from a teacher who was in the habit of collecting all the work, placing it in a box which stayed on her desk. Between classes -- while she was required to stand on hall duty outside her room -- a certain student was going to her desk and taking the work of a specific, very good student in the previous class. She never considered that people would steal during this time, but now she locks up classwork in a drawer. Who'd have thought it was necessary to lock up homework? I had a similar problem: I used to put my make-up work for absent students in the back of the room so they could pick it up; I'd write their names on the papers in pink ink . . . one of my students started taking other people's blank work (because he wasn't keeping up with his own work), which made those students THINK there was no make-up work for them, and they'd end up not doing something. Now I have make-up work in the front of the room, which doesn't work out so well traffic-wise. I had another student whom I knew had turned in a study guide -- I knew because she turned it in last, having to scramble through her bookbag to get it. And later, after some group work, it wasn't there. She'd been in the group nearest my desk, and she told me that a certain student'd been looking at the stack -- and hers was gone from the top. I know he took it.

In the recent past, this wasn't a problem. Yeah, kids would cheat, but they would cheat in situations they saw as victim-less crimes: They'd copy from another student, or they'd write forumulas on the inside of their calculator cover, or they'd copy work from the internet. But about two years ago this "I don't care if someone else gets hurt -- I'll take someone else's work, if the chance presents itself" attitude emerged. Fortunately, it isn't widespread. Most students do care about their fellow students enough not to steal their work. But we do have a few students who just don't care if someone else suffers. Their complete lack of compassion is a scary thing.

 

[Magpie]

Just a general observation, following on from Mrs Pete's post...

Cheating can be more widespread in some places, than others. And how students cheat can vary from place to place.

All of these examples involve adults:

In Canadian universities, my mother (a prof) had to deal with a lot of plagiarism, particularly among her Asian students, some of whom simply didn't understand the concept of intellectual property. Once she explained it to them, and had them rewrite the paper, they were usually fine. Blatant plagiarists, who DID know better, got zeros.

In a Kansas university, the students simply copied the previous year's tests and passed the answers around. Or they hired people to write their exams and essays for them. My mother's solution? She did not assign any take-home work. Everything was done in class, and she took attendance, matching names to faces. If someone was pretending to be someone they weren't, they had to leave the classroom. But beyond that - no punishment (except, of course, a zero for not writing the test).

In a Pakistani university, the students actually STOLE all of the completed, graded tests from my mom's office, figuring that my mother couldn't hand out marks if she didn't have the work. (This is a case where honest students could have been hurt.) But fortunately my mother is a "belt and suspenders" kind of lady - she had recorded all the grades in a notebook she kept on her person. She didn't say a word about the theft. Just waltzed into class the next day and began telling people their grades. She said the look of astonishment on their faces was priceless - she could tell right away who the thieves were.

A Pakistani colleague said, "Smart students always cheat. That's how you know they're smart!" My mother didn't bother trying to get anyone punished. She just moved ahead with the lesson, pleased that she was staying one step ahead of them.

Interestingly, she didn't catch anyone cheating in Romania.

 

[DopeyDame]

I also mentioned that academic fraud is generally grounds for dismissal in college.
What do you think I should do?

I haven't read all the responses, but this jumped out at me. I teach at a community college. In our school, the punishment for the first incidence of academic dishonesty is a zero on the assignment. Personally, I think that's far too lenient for a college student, but that's the policy, so your school isn't way off base. More importantly, like the principal said, there is no way in the universe I'd discuss any student's punishment with anyone other than the student (and their parent, if the kid's under 18).

I get that you're upset - and you should be! But I think this is one you're just going to have to let go.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Magpie brings up an interesting point. In my German class for immigrants here in Germany we had a big mix of cultures. Some really , truly seemed to not understand that "helping" each other on tests was not allowed or okay. We had several people from the Ukraine over the months and everyone from that area seemed to have that attitude--one even tried to explain it to me when was trying t explain why would not share my answers--her point was that a class works together--you are a class, a "team" and the entire group's grades are what matter most anyway.

Odds are that this was not a cultural difference in this case--just a kid who thought they could get away with something--but it is an interesting point none the less.



now, back to the justice vs. revenge argument. I bodled the parts of each definition (pulled in their entireties from freeonlinedictionary) which I feel apply


re·venged, re·veng·ing, re·veng·es
1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.
n.
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation.
2. Something done in vengeance; a retaliatory measure.
3. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness.
4. An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat.

Justice
1. The quality of being just; fairness.
2.
a. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
3.
a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
b. Law The administration and procedure of law.
4. Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason: The overcharged customer was angry, and with justice.
5. Abbr. J. Law
a. A judge.
b. A justice of the peace

You want the other girl to be punished for what she did to your daughter (Revenge). Your daughter was treated fairly in the end because her grades were restored, and her grades are her just reward. The other girl is being handled in accordance with the published rules in the student handbook (admin of the "law" or rules in this case) which is justice.