WWYD - High School Parents

[spacemountainmom]

My DD just finished her sophomore year. Towards the end of the term, it came up that she had two assignments missing. One was a take-home quiz and the other was a take home test. She was certain that she turned them in so she discussed it with her teacher. The teacher could not find them after looking several times. She went through her paperwork again on the last day of school and found something she thought was weird. She emailed me and asked that DD come in and verify something for her.

The next day DD went to school to meet with the teacher. It turned out that another student had taken DD's papers, erased DD's name and replaced it with her own. Fortunately DD had written her name on the back side of both papers and the other student missed that. The teacher was angry, DD was angry and I was angry. I drove up to school to talk to the principal. He had left so I spoke to one of the assistants. I asked what the punishment was for stealing another student's homework. She told me that if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments. I was angry about that. She would have gotten that just for not doing the work. Where is the punishment for her theft from my DD? Not only did she steal from my DD, she took the items from the teacher's in basket and the teacher really felt that her trust in students was violated as well. I left and decided I would take it up with the principal.

I called and left a message with the principal to please call me to discuss and forwarded the emails to him that had gone back and force between the math teacher and myself. He was out of the office for a week, but did call me this week. He pretty much told me the same thing. I kept pushing for a more drastic punishment. He did not agree. I told him that I had researched it and many high schools would either fail the student altogether in the class or at least give an imcomplete and require the student to attend summer school. I also mentioned that academic fraud is generally grounds for dismissal in college.

I kept pushing and I could tell he was getting angry with me. I kept calm and would not back down. He finally told me that whatever punishment was given was none of my business due to student privacy issues. I told him that it was really pathetic that the student would get a more strenuous punishment if she had stolen my dd's cell phone or ipod. He admitted that she would have, because he could call the police and file charges. I also reminded him that pretty much every teacher in the school requires students to use www.turnitin.com for every paper they turn in to check for plagiarism, yet stealing two math assisgnments is apparently ok with them.

He kept up with the stuff about privacy laws and that she would be dealt with. I ended the conversation and was not real happy. I ended up leaving a message with the math teacher asking her what she thinks I should do. I really feel that if nothing else, the girl should be forced to apologize to my dd and the teacher agreed with me.

I am wondering if I should take it further up the chain. Should I contact the school board or the superintendent? My former co-worker is the Assistant superintendent's secretary and would make sure I could talk to him. Should I just let it drop? My dh and I really feel that this girl needs to understand that what she did was serious and just losing credit for the assignments is not a strong enough deterrent.

What do you think I should do?

 

[kidzmom3]

I think you need to let this go. I know you are angry, but there is nothing you can do. You cannot force the school to punish another child. School is out, they have no authority to make the child apologize to your daughter.

You have to face the facts that there is nothing more you can do and move on.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I agree that you need to let this go. Thankfully the teacher was on the ball and realized the papers were really your daughter's work.

It is absolutely TRUE that you have no right whatsoever to know how the other student is punished or even who the other child is.

It IS a frustrating situation and I do not blame you for being angry that someone would do this to your DD, but I think it is expecting waaaaay too much to expect a forced apology or any information about what happened to the other student.

 

[DisneyOHFan]

I think you need to let this go. I know you are angry, but there is nothing you can do. You cannot force the school to punish another child. School is out, they have no authority to make the child apologize to your daughter.

You have to face the facts that there is nothing more you can do and move on.

First of all, I completely agree with you why you are angry, but I also tend to agree with the school. It is between the school and the other student as to their punishment. If she did take an ipod vs. the homework, you wouldn't have a say as to their punishment either. That would be between the police and the student.

Trust me, I completely understand why you are frustrated, but hopefully you find the satisfaction that your daughter was taken care of from the assignment perspective.

 

[clh2]

My DD just finished her sophomre year. Towards the end of the term, it came up that she had two assignments missing. One was a take-home quiz and the other was a take home test. She was certain that she turned them in so she discussed it with her teacher. The teacher could not find them after looking several times. She went through her paperwork again on the last day of school and found something she thought was weird. She emailed me and asked that DD come in and verify something for her.

The next day DD went to school to meet with the teacher. It turned out that another student had taken DD's papers, erased DD's name and replaced it with her own. Fortunately DD had written her name on the back side of both papers and the other student missed that. The teacher was angry, DD was angry and I was angry. I drove up to school to talk to the principal. He had left so I spoke to one of the assistants. I asked what the punishment was for stealing another student's homework. She told me that if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments. I was angry about that. She would have gotten that just for not doing the work. Where is the punishment for her theft from my DD? Not only did she steal from my DD, she took the items from the teacher's in basket and the teacher really felt that her trust in students was violated as well. I left and decided I would take it up with the principal.

I called and left a message with the principal to please call me to discuss and forwarded the emails to him that had gone back and force between the math teacher and myself. He was out of the office for a week, but did call me this week. He pretty much told me the same thing. I kept pushing for a more drastic punishment. He did not agree. I told him that I had researched it and many high schools would either fail the student altogether in the class or at least give an imcomplete and require the student to attend summer school. I also mentioned that academic fraud is generally grounds for dismissal in college.

I kept pushing and I could tell he was getting angry with me. I kept calm and would not back down. He finally told me that whatever punishment was given was none of my business due to student privacy issues. I told him that it was really pathetic that the student would get a more strenuous punishment if she had stolen my dd's cell phone or ipod. He admitted that she would have, because he could call the police and file charges. I also reminded him that pretty much every teacher in the school requires students to use www.turnitin.com for every paper they turn in to check for plagerism, yet stealing two math assisgnments is apparently ok with them.

He kept up with the stuff about privacy laws and that she would be dealt with. I ended the conversation and was not real happy. I ended up leaving a message with the math teacher asking her what she thinks I should do. I really feel that if nothing else, the girl should be forced to apologize to my dd and the teacher agreed with me.

I am wondering if I should take it further up the chain. Should I contact the school board or the superintendent? My former co-worker is the Assistant superintendent's secretary and would make sure I could talk to him. Should I just let it drop? My dh and I really feel that this girl needs to understand that what she did was serious and just losing credit for the assignments is not a strong enough deterrent.

What do you think I should do?

First - take a deep breath and relax.

There is a punishment the other student will be facing. In our school - cheating is a 3-step penalty. Each step is a higher penalty - and the 3rd step is an "f" in the class (i.e. no credit, and sucks on your GPA). So - this person "blew" their first step. Where I would have an issue - this person did it to 2 things - the quiz and the test, so I would suggest to the principal that this really should count as two offenses, since it was two different assignments. In my DD's school - on the "3rd strike" you get an "f" in the class that the 3rd offense happened in, and need to retake the class. Sucks if you are a senior, taking a required class.

Now - relax. Your DD's missing assignments were found. That is great news. Let the principals now do their jobs, and let them worry about the penalties that need to be imposed on the homework stealer.

Your DD was very smart to put her name on both sides of the paper, and maybe next year - she should do this in ink.

 

[spacemountainmom]

I agree that you need to let this go. Thankfully the teacher was on the ball and realized the papers were really your daughter's work.

It is absolutely TRUE that you have no right whatsoever to know how the other student is punished or even who the other child is.

It IS a frustrating situation and I do not blame you for being angry that someone would do this to your DD, but I think it is expecting waaaaay too much to expect a forced apology or any information about what happened to the other student.

I do know who the other child is. The teacher showed my dd the papers to make sure it was hers.

I do think the girl should be punished appropriately, but I really feel the policy needs to be changed. I don't see that the current punishment is enough of a deterrent to ANY student.

clh2 - Thank you for your suggestion. I do like the idea of two separate assignments = two separate offenses.

 

[hereyago]

Honestly, I"m surprised they even told you about it being the girl's first offense or any of that.

DD isn't in high school yet, but even when she was in elementary school, there was a serious incident involving a student and the school had their classes on lock down because of this student.

we got a letter the next day saying the classes were on lock down for the students and even the student who started this chain of events, yes the bad kids still get rights. it didn't say how it was handled or any sort of punishment, because we didn't have a "right" to know.

let it go, i'm sure miss homework taker will do it again and maybe get caught or have another student do some real justice on her. your DD had a good idea about putting her name on both sides of the paper.

 

[golfgal]

Kids are stupid, schools know that, she is getting a zero on the assignments AND her teacher knows that and the principals know this (and I am sure she has been told by both) and her parents know by now. Often just knowing you have been caught is enough to stop this behavior forever therefore I think the first offense punishment is right. If she didn't learn her lesson and gets caught again, THAT punishment should be much more severe. In the long run your DD is fine, no harm to her GPA. Let it go.

 

[mjkacmom]

He'll probably get in trouble if you go to a higher-up, because he absolutely had no right whatsoever telling you the punishment in the first place! You have no say as to the punishment for this child.

 

[LBIJim]

Drop it. Your daughter received proper credit for the assignments. That's what's important. Sucks what your daughter went through, but it isn't worth the time or effort to ensure the other student is punished appropriately. It's between the school and that student and her parents now.

Jim

 

[Magic Mom]

My DD just finished her sophomore year. Towards the end of the term, it came up that she had two assignments missing. One was a take-home quiz and the other was a take home test. She was certain that she turned them in so she discussed it with her teacher. The teacher could not find them after looking several times. She went through her paperwork again on the last day of school and found something she thought was weird. She emailed me and asked that DD come in and verify something for her.

The next day DD went to school to meet with the teacher. It turned out that another student had taken DD's papers, erased DD's name and replaced it with her own. Fortunately DD had written her name on the back side of both papers and the other student missed that. The teacher was angry, DD was angry and I was angry. I drove up to school to talk to the principal. He had left so I spoke to one of the assistants. I asked what the punishment was for stealing another student's homework. She told me that if it was her first offense, the student will get zeros on both assignments. I was angry about that. She would have gotten that just for not doing the work. Where is the punishment for her theft from my DD? Not only did she steal from my DD, she took the items from the teacher's in basket and the teacher really felt that her trust in students was violated as well. I left and decided I would take it up with the principal.

I called and left a message with the principal to please call me to discuss and forwarded the emails to him that had gone back and force between the math teacher and myself. He was out of the office for a week, but did call me this week. He pretty much told me the same thing. I kept pushing for a more drastic punishment. He did not agree. I told him that I had researched it and many high schools would either fail the student altogether in the class or at least give an imcomplete and require the student to attend summer school. I also mentioned that academic fraud is generally grounds for dismissal in college.

I kept pushing and I could tell he was getting angry with me. I kept calm and would not back down. He finally told me that whatever punishment was given was none of my business due to student privacy issues. I told him that it was really pathetic that the student would get a more strenuous punishment if she had stolen my dd's cell phone or ipod. He admitted that she would have, because he could call the police and file charges. I also reminded him that pretty much every teacher in the school requires students to use www.turnitin.com for every paper they turn in to check for plagerism, yet stealing two math assisgnments is apparently ok with them.

He kept up with the stuff about privacy laws and that she would be dealt with. I ended the conversation and was not real happy. I ended up leaving a message with the math teacher asking her what she thinks I should do. I really feel that if nothing else, the girl should be forced to apologize to my dd and the teacher agreed with me.

I am wondering if I should take it further up the chain. Should I contact the school board or the superintendent? My former co-worker is the Assistant superintendent's secretary and would make sure I could talk to him. Should I just let it drop? My dh and I really feel that this girl needs to understand that what she did was serious and just losing credit for the assignments is not a strong enough deterrent.

What do you think I should do?

What you want isn't relevent. The school rules are the school rules. It would be crazy to let other parents choose the punishments.

 

[luvmy3]

I am wondering if I should take it further up the chain. Should I contact the school board or the superintendent? My former co-worker is the Assistant superintendent's secretary and would make sure I could talk to him. Should I just let it drop? My dh and I really feel that this girl needs to understand that what she did was serious and just losing credit for the assignments is not a strong enough deterrent.

What do you think I should do?

You should drop it, you and your dh do not get to decide what this girl needs to understand, you only need to be concerned with what happens to your own children. In this case, your dd's problem was resolved.
It sounds like the school as a 3 strike rule (or maybe 2) in regards to cheating. If the punishment wasn't enough of a deterrent, then she will be punished accordingly the next time.

 

[Poohforyou]

Honestly, as long as your child gets full credit for her work what happens to the other student really isn't your business or your concern. This is an issue now between the school and this other student. For privacy issues alone they should not and likely cannot share details with you.

 

[spacemountainmom]

He'll probably get in trouble if you go to a higher-up, because he absolutely had no right whatsoever telling you the punishment in the first place! You have no say as to the punishment for this child.

In most schools - including the middle school where I work - offenses and consequences are listed in the student handbook. For example - "Fighting - If there is any physical contact between students, the first offense will involve in-school suspension. Second and subsequent fighting offenses will result in suspension from school for one or more days."

DD's student handbook shows many items as being "principal's discretion". The principal and assistant both told me that the punishment for a first offense was a zero on each assignment. I don't see how them telling me this is going to get anyone in trouble.

I guess I really don't get a say in her punishment, but I can push to change the policy.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

I agree that you need to let this go. Thankfully the teacher was on the ball and realized the papers were really your daughter's work.

It is absolutely TRUE that you have no right whatsoever to know how the other student is punished or even who the other child is.

It IS a frustrating situation and I do not blame you for being angry that someone would do this to your DD, but I think it is expecting waaaaay too much to expect a forced apology or any information about what happened to the other student.

I agree with this 100%. I would be mad too but I would also be very thankful that the teacher caught it. Let the school handle it from here.

 

[horseshowmom]

I understand why you're so upset. Yes, the deception was uncovered, and your daughter's GPA is secure, but you're thinking what if it hadn't been discovered. YOUR daughter would have been harmed by the actions.

It isn't simply a case of academic dishonesty which should certainly result in a zero. There was also the potential damage done to your daughter. The fact that the other student didn't get away with it isn't really the point. They might have had your daughter not had her name on the back of the papers.

If they don't have a policy (or the common sense) to deal with this as more than just cheating, they need to develop one. Basically, the girl is only being punished for cheating and is not being held accountable for what she did to your daughter.

You can't force the school to tell you anything, but you can address the apparent lack of a policy with the superintendent if you wish. I've got to say that this situation would really tick me off too.

 

[hereyago]

We also have the offenses listed in DD"s student handbook, also with the principal's discretion. however, whatever the principal decides isn't the other parent's business due to privacy laws.

one of my DD's former friends decided last year in 7th grade that a certain "enemy" of her other friend should get her name is a blank, rhymes with runt in sharpie marker-which they don't allow written on the bathroom wall.

so the principal decided since it was girl's first offense she would have to eat her lunch in the principals office for a few days. now sitting in the principal' s office isn't in the handbook, but it was his discretion.

and I know the details because the sharpie girl's mom told me and thought it was unfair

if you want to change the policy, going to the teacher and principal really won't help, sit in at a school board meeting and you should have a few minutes to go before the board and state your idea about the policy change.
as for them telling you it was the girl's first offense, once again, privacy laws and they gave out information about a student to someone who didn't need to know-no offense, but unless you are the parent of said child who got in trouble, you don't need to know.

 

[luvmy3]

In most schools - including the middle school where I work - offenses and consequences are listed in the student handbook. For example - "Fighting - If there is any physical contact between students, the first offense will involve in-school suspension. Second and subsequent fighting offenses will result in suspension from school for one or more days."

DD's student handbook shows many items as being "principal's discretion". The principal and assistant both told me that the punishment for a first offense was a zero on each assignment. I don't see how them telling me this is going to get anyone in trouble.

I guess I really don't get a say in her punishment, but I can push to change the policy.

 

[dmslush]

Yes, I think you need to let it go. It was so hard for me when my daughter was in high school. But you need to look at it this way.. if you did something bad at your job, and you were punished, it is none of your coworkers business what your punishment is. That violates your rights to privacy. So, same with this girl. She has done wrong, she is being punished.. might not be a punishment that you agree with, but she is being punished. And beyond that, you and your daughter are not involved anymore.

 

["Got Disney"]

The problem with teens is that they have jello for brains and react first and think later....you are right to be angry but for a first offense there is no need to destroy the other child's future either....

I would have been angry also mostly since your daughter almost had to pay the price in her overall grade and GPA....

Be careful also that your daughter does not go back to school and starts to tell kids about what she did because that could very well fall back on her as the other student calls her a liar and that she is spreading rumors about her....you know how some teens get....UGH the drama....

If your daughter feels like she needs an apology than have her go up to the girl by herself without other friends around and ask for one...if the girl does not give her one than leave it alone.....but at least your daughter will feel like she has closure....

Glad you found the papers...that is the main issue...your daughter not the other girl.