WWYD? Concerned

[luvsJack]

They met when she was in a position of authority. They did not begin to see each other outside of the volunteer setting until she was no longer his supervisor, as I understood the post.

I had a friend in HS who started dating one of our teachers about a week after we graduated high school. They later got married and had children. The teacher was not subject to any disciplinary action because the relationship did not begin until after the student graduated. I see this as much the same thing. I'm not sure I'd be okay with it, but I do NOT think it is analogous to a situation where a student dates a person who is currently their teacher, as you have described.

There are two current coaches at dd's school that married their students. They could not begin dating until after the girls graduated.

A coach at another school was fired because he was having an affair with a student, her age wasn't as much of a factor as the fact that she was a student at the time. She was 16.


But I don't think this case is anything like that. She was his supervisor for a few weeks, 2 years ago.

 

[luvsJack]

That's just it, LuvsJack....

The affect of an inappropriate relationship on a 14-15-16 year old minor is the same, whether or not she is 'after him'.

That makes absolutely no difference in my views of the situation.

Why assume that she is trying to have an inappropriate relationship with him?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I don't feel like I am making that assumption...
Based on a lot of info and posts... I think it is fair to say, that IMHO, this is an inappropriate relationship.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't feel like I am making that assumption...
Based on a lot of info and posts... I think it is fair to say, that IMHO, this is an inappropriate relationship.

So, don't let me assume here. You are saying that whatever the relationship is-friendship, infatuation, mentor, physical, religious, etc.; its inappropriate?

If that is the case, is there any relationship between a teen and a 20 something that you do deem as appropriate? Not trying to debate, I am just wondering what others see as appropriate/inappropriate.

 

[Kogo Shuko]

So, don't let me assume here. You are saying that whatever the relationship is-friendship, infatuation, mentor, physical, religious, etc.; its inappropriate?

If that is the case, is there any relationship between a teen and a 20 something that you do deem as appropriate? Not trying to debate, I am just wondering what others see as appropriate/inappropriate.

This right here.

It feels like that the idea of any adult befriending a teenager, for ANY reason, is inappropriate. What about all the movies out there where an outside adult befriends a teen because they see a talent that they'd like to nurture which the parents refuse to see?

I don't think this relationship is deemed "inappropriate" so long as the outtings are less frequent.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the company and conversation of a teen, so long as it's respectable.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Yes, there may be provisions for these cases, which would ADD to the basic statutory rape laws...

But, I think that I could venture to say that, in most every state in the US statutory rape laws apply, based on age of consent, and based on age-difference.
If there were states where statutory laws apply only to 'position of authority', that would be an interesting fact to know. Link, anyone?

It looks like this one poster's past experiences in another country and culture have affected their views...

I feel the same way about an age of consent at 14 as I do about any inappropriate relationship. For example, some religions and cultures would encourage, condone, or even expect 13-14 year old girls to be 'married off'..... In some cultures women and children are little more than 'property' to be controlled and harshly physically abused.

I guess I will admit here that I see a real problem when religion and/or culture, of any kind, are used to justify inappropriate situations.

My views are not changing.

Anyhow, I don't think anybody is assuming that there has been any violation of Statutory Rape laws in this case.
But, yes, it does matter to me that this relationship began when the minor was well below any age of consent.

NO my views were based on this statue from Ohio which was quoted early in the thread (after noting that the age of consent in Ohio is 16). Therefore, a 16 year old is legally able to have sex with someone else of any age 16 or up in Ohio, one of the things listed in that statue (which does not show up in the quote, as it was a quote itself, but I can go back and cut and paste in a moment) is that there is an exception if one is a "minor" (in Ohio that is under 18) and the other is a teacher, etc.

I just mentioned Germany because that is another place I know of in which an age that is otherwise allowed full consent might be different if there were a teacher or boss involved. There are probably other US states, but I am not going to look them all up for this specific issue

There is a difference between age of consent and sex between a minor and a supervisor.

If you are in Ohio (maybe you're not, but it's a guess), there is a small part of the statute that reads Since the relationship started when your ds was a volunteer supervised by this woman, she is on a very slippery slope.

sorry the quote within the quote does not appear, as I said above, I will go back and cut and paste it in a moment

 

[NHdisneylover]

Here is the statute that was quoted by abdmom, no link was provided:


However, the preceding statute, Section 2907.03, specifies that sexual conduct between anyone under 18 and a teacher, administrator, or coach of the school they attend, a cleric, or other person in authority, is punishable as a felony of the third degree.

2907.03 Sexual battery.
(A) No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another, not the spouse of the offender, when any of the following apply:
(5) The offender is the other person’s natural or adoptive parent, or a stepparent, or guardian, custodian, or person in loco parentis of the other person.
(7) The offender is a teacher, administrator, coach, or other person in authority employed by or serving in a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards pursuant to division (D) of section 3301.07 of the Revised Code, the other person is enrolled in or attends that school, and the offender is not enrolled in and does not attend that school.
(8) The other person is a minor, the offender is a teacher, administrator, coach, or other person in authority employed by or serving in an institution of higher education, and the other person is enrolled in or attends that institution.
(9) The other person is a minor, and the offender is the other person’s athletic or other type of coach, is the other person’s instructor, is the leader of a scouting troop of which the other person is a member, or is a person with temporary or occasional disciplinary control over the other person.
(12) The other person is a minor, the offender is a cleric, and the other person is a member of, or attends, the church or congregation served by the cleric. {§ 2907.03}

 

[pryncess527]

Yes, there may be provisions for these cases, which would ADD to the basic statutory rape laws...

But, I think that I could venture to say that, in most every state in the US statutory rape laws apply, based on age of consent, and based on age-difference.
If there were states where statutory laws apply only to 'position of authority', that would be an interesting fact to know. Link, anyone?

I don't think anyone stated that statutory laws apply ONLY to position of authority, merely that position of authority can provide another layer of laws in addition to ones based on age. In Ohio, a 16 year old can consent to have sex with a 30 year old, but can NOT consent to have sex with a teacher, no matter the teachers age because the student/teacher relationship introduces an authority figures and that aspect of the statute applies. A 14 year old could not consent in either case (in Ohio)

 

[NHdisneylover]

So, don't let me assume here. You are saying that whatever the relationship is-friendship, infatuation, mentor, physical, religious, etc.; its inappropriate?

If that is the case, is there any relationship between a teen and a 20 something that you do deem as appropriate? Not trying to debate, I am just wondering what others see as appropriate/inappropriate.

This right here.

It feels like that the idea of any adult befriending a teenager, for ANY reason, is inappropriate. What about all the movies out there where an outside adult befriends a teen because they see a talent that they'd like to nurture which the parents refuse to see?

I don't think this relationship is deemed "inappropriate" so long as the outtings are less frequent.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the company and conversation of a teen, so long as it's respectable.

I am curious about the poster's views as well. It does sound like she is saying an adult should never have a friend or mentor type relationship with a teen, but maybe we are misunderstanding her

 

[Spriesty]

This has been a fascinating thread! I've read all of it, and anything I could say has already been said.

To the OP: I know this isn't your normal username, but I encourage you to pop onto this username every once in a while to keep us updated with this situation. Let us know how the 28 year old likes your church, and if she does indeed seem to be interested in any of the men her own age. Let us know if you decide to chaperone them on their next ice cream adventure. Let us know if your son finds a girl he wants to court.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I don't think anyone stated that statutory laws apply ONLY to position of authority, merely that position of authority can provide another layer of laws in addition to ones based on age. In Ohio, a 16 year old can consent to have sex with a 30 year old, but can NOT consent to have sex with a teacher, no matter the teachers age because the student/teacher relationship introduces an authority figures and that aspect of the statute applies. A 14 year old could not consent in either case (in Ohio)

Thank you! You put it much more succinctly than I did

 

[mumto3girls]

They met when she was in a position of authority. They did not begin to see each other outside of the volunteer setting until she was no longer his supervisor, as I understood the post. I had a friend in HS who started dating one of our teachers about a week after we graduated high school. They later got married and had children. The teacher was not subject to any disciplinary action because the relationship did not begin until after the student graduated. I see this as much the same thing. I'm not sure I'd be okay with it, but I do NOT think it is analogous to a situation where a student dates a person who is currently their teacher, as you have described.

My former neighbor, who was my babysitter when I was a child, was involved in a similar situation. He was her track coach and they started seeing each other fairly soon after graduation although they didn't marry until she was out of college. As far as I know they are still married. It would have to be close to 25 years if not more.

 

[TinkerBelled]

OP, if you wouldn't mind clarifying, in the Gothard tradition, when do men gain the age of majority--as in, at what age are women supposed to be submissive to them?

I was wondering because I didn't know if a 14-year-old boy would be different than a 16-year-old boy in the eyes of Gothard churches.

 

[roseaster]

No, I agree with Hadley that it is not the same. A teacher that my dd sees every day for 4 years, in a position of authority and a volunteer supervisor for two weeks--huge difference there.

Why would that not be something a 16 year old would say?

He may in fact be infatuated with the woman, but how about giving her some credit on self control and sense? She may value his friendship and yet know enough to keep in at arm's length.

Why assume the woman is after this kid?

According to the OP, he "worked closely with her for nearly 2 YEARS." Not really much different than a coach or a teacher.

 

[mousears123]

OP, if you wouldn't mind clarifying, in the Gothard tradition, when do men gain the age of majority--as in, at what age are women supposed to be submissive to them?

I was wondering because I didn't know if a 14-year-old boy would be different than a 16-year-old boy in the eyes of Gothard churches.

A 14 year old boy and a 16 year old boy aren't really different in that sense. A 16 year old may be treated a little differently due to approaching the courting age, (and many of us marry between 18-20) but in terms of being a leader/the submissiveness of women, there isn't necessarily a difference. What the submissiveness of women is about is really the transference of authority from father to husband, it has little to do with age. The 28 year old woman, unmarried, looks to her father for leadership- once married, it would be her husband. She is not under any obligation to defer to her 16 year old friend just because he's male, however, she would want to allow him to be the leader when they're together out of respect, so she won't damage his future ability/desire to be a leader. Also a girl when courting does not want to be seen as loud, decisive, prefers to have her way, etc because those are not things wanted in a wife and she would be trying to display a right heart attitude. Even if "friends only" she would want to help him show leadership- even young girls who are babysitting their little brothers often have the question of "if I'm in charge of him and I make the decisions while babysitting him, how can I still show respect to him and allow him to practice being a leader?" It's a common question younger girls have. But at 28 I'm sure she allows him room to show leadership but all the while still goes to her father for advice.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Yes, I'm bumping an old thread.

I read through this yesterday and thought it was really interesting. I was just wondering if the OP is still around. Any updates?