Writing a Will Advice

[LoraJ]

As some of you know, my boyfriend's father has colon cancer. He's in the hospital now and is supposed to have some sort of surgery this week (I think it is exploratory).

His doctor advised him to write up a living will as soon as possible. (I thought he had already but I guess not). The doctor says it needs to be written in a way where my boyfriend will not get slammed with all of the hospital bills. I was under the impression the hospital would eat those bills if something happened.

His dad doesn't own any property, has no retirement fund, has about $5 in the bank and owes 10's of thousands in credit card, doctor bills, child support, hospital bills etc.

The only assets he has is some artwork, but not sure how much it is worth. He wants to leave that to my BF and his little sister.

How does one go about this? Can we do it without a lawyer? I think I have some legal form software somewhere.

Thanks in advance.


ETA:
Seems with all research living will is just how he wants to be kept alive (which is why I though he had already signed that stuff). So I guess the doctor means an actual will?

 

[Disney Doll]

I'm reading a couple of things into what the doctor is trying to tell you here.

First, his time may be growing short. usually, when we get the idea that someone may getting closer to dying, we start broaching the living will subject, especially if they don't have one. If your BF's DF doesn't have a living will or advance directives, it would probably be a good idea to discuss his wishes with him now, while he is still coherent, and can make known what he wants. Otherwise, when he becomes incapacitated, DBF will have to decide, and he may always second-guess whether he did the right thing, unless he has an idea of what his father wants. Plus, if there are any relatives that may doubt him, you have it in writing...think of the Terri Schiavo case and how much less traumatic that would have been had she just put her wishes in writing.

As far as a Last Will and Testament...to the best of my knowledge, children are not responsible for their parents' bills, unless they have signed something stating that they will be. Make sure your DBF has not, and does not, do that. Speak to a social worker at the hospital to see if you can get him on Title 19/Medicaid. It pays back retroactively to the day of application. If you have already done this, then you jut have to wait. As far as assets...anything he has that is an asset may be used to pay his bills. Sometimes with Title 19/Medicaid, they have to "spend down" until they get to a certain level of remaining savings, before they are eligible. Should DBF's DF die, whatever assets he has will be probated to pay off his creditors first. Anything left after that would go to his heirs.

 

[LoraJ]

Thanks.

He's pretty much made his wishes known about the living will. He was going to sign one before, and he never did because of the wording of it. So I am going to try and find a better worded one for him.

So, I think the only assets he has are a few paintings, which I don't think are worth that much. So the government would take those? That's what he really wants his son and daughter to have. They could take his furniture, tv, and all the books and clothes, but he really wants to protect the art.

 

[sweet angel]

The children aren't responsible for the bills, the estate is. If the kids are the executors, then they are responsible -- not personally, but thru the estate assets.

If he thinks the end is near and wants to give them the art, he should do it now.

Any hospital should have a basic Living Will form he can sign (unless it's a Catholic hospital -- which may not honor one anyway).

He should also sign a Power of Attorney so some one can take care of his bills, etc while he's in the hospital.

 

[DISUNC]

A LIVING WILL determines what happens if one is to be placed on life support.
A REGULAR WILL DETERMINES how the deceased's belongings are to be divided.
I doubt the Dr would talk to you about a Regular will. Dr.s talk to patients about Living wills.
TWO seperate things. A Living Will can be purchased in any stationary store. Or Staples.

I wish you all the best of Luck & Health

 

[LoraJ]

The children aren't responsible for the bills, the estate is. If the kids are the executors, then they are responsible -- not personally, but thru the estate assets.

If he thinks the end is near and wants to give them the art, he should do it now.

Any hospital should have a basic Living Will form he can sign (unless it's a Catholic hospital -- which may not honor one anyway).

He should also sign a Power of Attorney so some one can take care of his bills, etc while he's in the hospital.

Hmmm, maybe that is why the living will wording was confusing to him. He was in a Catholic hospital. And he is in another one now. So I will write up a better one today that clearly states his wishes and have him sign it.

He wants my BF to be the executor. Since his dad has no money, no life insurance, no other assets, what would BF do to pay the bills with the assets. Have an "estate" sale and basically sell all of the books and other clutter he has? If the estate isn't enough to pay the bills, what happens then?

TIA

 

[sweet angel]

I believe if the estate can't cover the bills, the creditors take a loss. Is there a local attorney that offers free consultations? He/she could answer a lot of questions.

Be careful writing up a Living Will...while a written one is better than nothing, many states have certain requirements as to how they need to be executed, notarized, witnessed, etc.

 

[golfgal]

It will cost you a LOT less to have a lawyer draw up a will then it would be to have to pay off any debts he may have. It cost us about $200 which also included setting up a trust and some other things for the kids. I would strongly recommend getting a lawyer to do a will so you don't have to worry about paying off his debt. It will be a MESS either way but at least you have some legal legs to stand on with a professional will.

 

[shy little mouse]

Any hospital should have a basic Living Will form he can sign (unless it's a Catholic hospital -- which may not honor one anyway).

That is extremely inflammatory and incorrect. I am an RN for a Catholic hospital (one of the largest Catholic Health care systems in the country) and we are required to inquire about advance directives and to provide teaching and information packets to anyone who requests one. Their are some very good forms out that make the task easier. We require ALL of our open hearts to have an advance directive on file. We cannot refuse honor an advanced directive that is correctly and completely filled out; that is illegal in the state I live in.

 

[LoraJ]

It will cost you a LOT less to have a lawyer draw up a will then it would be to have to pay off any debts he may have. It cost us about $200 which also included setting up a trust and some other things for the kids. I would strongly recommend getting a lawyer to do a will so you don't have to worry about paying off his debt. It will be a MESS either way but at least you have some legal legs to stand on with a professional will.

We kind of need something fast and now just in case. Hopefully everything will go okay and there won't be complications with the surgery. But we're not going to have the time to go to a lawyer. So he just wants something in writing for now. And then we can get something more professional later in the week.

 

[sweet angel]

I'm not sure how my statement is inflammatory...but okay.

When my ex-BIL was in a Catholic hospital in Washington, DC, they did not want to honor his Living Will. He was an attorney and his sisters KNEW what he wanted. The staff gave them quite a fight...because of the "moral" implications.

The attorneys I work for told me that just because you have a living will doesn't mean it will be honored.

Much like certain pharmacists were making headlines for refusing to fill certain prescriptions, it comes down to the doctor/hospital whether or not the Living Will will be adhered to without a fight.

Perhaps it varies by state.

If you'll notice I specifically said "which MAY not honor it".

 

[golfgal]

We kind of need something fast and now just in case. Hopefully everything will go okay and there won't be complications with the surgery. But we're not going to have the time to go to a lawyer. So he just wants something in writing for now. And then we can get something more professional later in the week.

Unless by fast you mean today, you should be able to get into a lawyer tomorrow and have the will drawn up then. If you call and explain the situation, they will get it done for you in a day, two at them most.

 

[sweet angel]

You can always do a holographic (handwritten) will today -- make sure to have a couple of witnesses and a notary. Call an attorney tomorrow. We have really quick turnaround and have done hospital calls for signing.

 

[Disney Doll]

Thanks.

He's pretty much made his wishes known about the living will. He was going to sign one before, and he never did because of the wording of it. So I am going to try and find a better worded one for him.

So, I think the only assets he has are a few paintings, which I don't think are worth that much. So the government would take those? That's what he really wants his son and daughter to have. They could take his furniture, tv, and all the books and clothes, but he really wants to protect the art.

No, the government wouldn't take the paintings. They might make them be liquidated as part of his estate if they had any significant value...in other words if they were collectors items that might bring in thousands of dollars. My suggestion would be that BF's DF gift them to whomever he wants to have them now, and then the problem is solved.

 

[Disney Doll]

Any hospital should have a basic Living Will form he can sign (unless it's a Catholic hospital -- which may not honor one anyway).

God, I wish I knew where people got their information.

Catholic Hospitals have living will forms. I work as a nurse in a Catholic hospital. I give living will forms out all the time. I discuss living wills and advance directives with people all the time. We honor a living will, as long as the legal next-of-kin is in agreement, all the time. I have actually stood in a patient's room and said to family members "If I were in this situation, I would let my mother go. I'd ask that she be kept comfortable, but no extraordinary measures". And you know what??? The Hounds of Hell didn't come and get me, the crucifix didn't fall off the wall, the chapel downstairs didn't burst into flames and I have worked there for 23 years, so I didn't get fired either.

The biggest problem with a living will is that it is not a legally binding document. It is more of a "suggestion" document, indicating what your wishes are should you become incapacitated. However, I have said this before and I will say it again, you can have "Do Not Resuscitate" tattooed onto your chest, but if you come into the hospital and are incapacitated, they are going to do whatever your legal next-of-kin, healthcare agent, power of attorney...whomever would be the next legal representative in line...says to do. So make sure that it is someone who will adhere to your wishes.

This is true in every hospital, not just Catholic. No one wants to get sued by adhering to a patient's wishes when they leave behind people who will sue at the drop of a hat, which is how society today is, especially in terms of healthcare. Lawsuit is the first word out of everyone's mouth the moment they hear something they don't like.

 

[Disney Doll]

I'm not sure how my statement is inflammatory...but okay.

When my ex-BIL was in a Catholic hospital in Washington, DC, they did not want to honor his Living Will. He was an attorney and his sisters KNEW what he wanted. The staff gave them quite a fight...because of the "moral" implications.

The attorneys I work for told me that just because you have a living will doesn't mean it will be honored.

Much like certain pharmacists were making headlines for refusing to fill certain prescriptions, it comes down to the doctor/hospital whether or not the Living Will will be adhered to without a fight.

Perhaps it varies by state.

If you'll notice I specifically said "which MAY not honor it".

Then those people should have called their State Hospital Association and told them that a hospital was failing to adhere to the law, and I am surprised some attorney didn't tell them that. We are required to honor the wishes of aliving will if it properly and completely filled out, properly executed, notarized etc. and all legal next-of-kin and representatives are in agreement and have told the MD to write a DNR order.

There are sometimes deeper issues with taking someone off life support if they are on it, and that would be true whether the hospital were Catholic or not, but every hospital has an ethics committee, every state has a State Hospital Association and so on.

Generally living wills aren't honored for fear of attorneys later making a case to sue for non-treatment after the patient dies because the hospital honored their living will.

 

[sweet angel]

It was to remove life support. The hospital did NOT want to do it, and ended up prolonging his life several painful days, while his sisters fought with the hospital staff. This was about 15 years ago. I would imagine that things have improved since then. HOWEVER, I wouldn't put all my money on a living will.

As you said, we live in a very litigious society -- one never knows who will sue next.

 

[Disney Doll]

It was to remove life support. The hospital did NOT want to do it, and ended up prolonging his life several painful days, while his sisters fought with the hospital staff. This was about 15 years ago. I would imagine that things have improved since then. HOWEVER, I wouldn't put all my money on a living will.

As you said, we live in a very litigious society -- one never knows who will sue next.

There are HUGE differences between now and fifteen years ago.

Things have improved...no need to imagine it.

Now I wouldn't put my money on a living will due to family or legal next-of-kin issues. Most hospitals have no problem honoring them if all significant family/next-of-kin is in agreement and most also have no problem removing life support in obvious cases of no hope, if all are in agreement. They don't go ripping everyone off a vent though...they do look at all the variables, quality of life, family input etc.

Sorry your family had to go through that so many years ago.

 

[LadyZolt]

I agree with what Disney Doll said. The Living Will is pretty much so that you have something in writing that tells your doctors and family members what you want. But the family members don't have to follow it once you reach the point where you can't make your own decisions. My husband is an RN and he's seen family members directly say "No, save Grandma -- use heroic measures" in spite of her living will and Do Not Resuscitate order. Your best bet is to have a Living Will and also a Medical Power of Attorney that allows one person specifically to make your medical decisions for you. That way, if you've got your family there all saying "Save my loved one," and your best friend has a Medical Power of Attorney and you have a Living Will that says "let me die," you will know that your best friend is going to do what you want and will have the legal ability to do it. With just a Living Will, the hospital has to worry about getting sued. The dead person isn't going to sue, of course, but the next of kin sure can. As the Terry Schiavo case taught us, everyone needs to discuss this with those who will be making the decision, put in writing what you want done, and ensure that whoever you choose to make the decision has the legal grounds on which to stand in order to fulfill your wishes.

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[barkley]

have him apply for medicare and social security disability (if he has insufficient work quarters he will be advised to apply for ssi instead). due to his terminal illness diagnosis he should be eligible to the medicare that is retro-active to the date of application (normaly he would have to wait for 2 years following the date of granting)-in this way he will be filing for both financial and medical assistance at the same time.

pure medicare or medicaid looks at assetts retro-activly (some state sponsored programs go back as much as 2 years)-so if he has any paper trail (insurance policies, reported on a prior application for assistance or the like) that shows evidence of the art work it must be reported or failing to report that may create entire ineligibility for the program and the potential of prosecution for fraud-and that includes anyone who knowing assists in the process (vs. the time period any financial value of the art work would cover). medicare workers are highly trained and skilled at looking at prior months and determining how the assetts have been moved around and a person's best efforts to "shelter" property is generaly detected. that said-if the art is of some "family status" there may be eligiblity to exclude it from consideration in determining eligibiltiy (this is done with some jewlery and antique furniture peices as well). we often advised applicants in this situation to simply take the peices to a hock shop and ask them to write on the back of a buisness card what they would give for the peices (despite what a worker may tell you-the program DOES NOT REQUIRE an actual appraisal-simply an acurate valuation). there is also an amount of assetts that are considered exempt right of the top (a house someone owns and "intends" to return to, personal furnishings and clothing) as well as a dollar amount (of monies or other properties)-so the art may be a moot issue.

ask the hospital if they have eligibility staff in house or if the local agency has staff that do on site applications (most do). as far as the advance medical directive-most hospitals have the form in house, it's very easy to complete, and most have a staff member that is a lic. notary to witness for just these circumstances. a "simple will" form can be purchased at most office supply stores (or downloaded from the internet)-again most of the time the hospital has a notary who can witness (in most instances even with a small estate-anyone named as a beneficiary cannot be utilized as a witness).

you can get great information and assistance from your "area agency on aging" or the local branch of "hospice"-both can at the very least get you the phone numbers and names of whom can best assist you to meet your needs.