Would you want the school system to change to a shorter summer vacation and instead switch to a longer winter break?

[Disneylover99]

You do realize that parents pay for their child(ren) to participate in school sports, and other activities, do you not?

Wow! Never heard of this. It’s not that way here. It’s so interesting to hear about how things work in different parts of the States.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

not everywhere. my state passed a newer law that strictly regulates charging for anything related to optional, non-credit extracurricular events that are cultural, social, recreational, or athletic in nature. this extends to including the family members of students who are playing in sports that traditionally charge an admission fee to view your student. the goal is to remove barriers to student participation and consider policies that further reduce obstacles to participation (like team fees, uniform fees...all the stuff that just keeps adding up).

That would be nice but here it would be the end of all extra curricular activities period. Schools can’t fund academics as they are now much less anything outside school hours. Even outside academics like the IB program cost money. Not sure which way is norm but likely in between

 

[AppleDumpling]

We never paid anything at all for school sports.

Same here. It is covered by school taxes.

 

[DeeBee3]

I would love to be able to go somewhere outside the Christmas holiday, but we no longer have a February break. I wouldn't mind giving up a week of summer for that week.

I think it all depends on where you live. In NY, I'm "done" with winter after the 1st snow. I want to get out of here to a warmer place. Not everyone can travel at Christmas or afford to. It would be lovely to go to Florida at another time in the winter.

Summer is also stinking hot and humid here, just not at the levels of Florida.

And yes, summer learning loss is definitely real. If you don't practice multiplication facts with your kids for 8 weeks, they will not be as sharp when they start the next grade. Not all kids are the same, but I have found this to be true.

 

[AppleDumpling]

I've been thinking more about this, and another idea popped into my head. - What if we shortened the summer break a little and increased the winter one, and really separated the semesters - so first grade, for instance, would be broken down into 1A and 1B?

Unless a town was so small as to have only one class per grade, they could even start new classes during each semester, so kids could actually begin kindergarten just after they turn five, and we wouldn't have the need for "red-shirting" and the social readiness differences of kids in the same K class being almost a year apart in age.

Mostly, kids would move along with the same teacher for two semesters, finishing on the same schedule they do now - but for kids who are on the borderline of needing to repeat a grade, we would have the option of letting them switch to the other track and only repeat half of the grade to catch up. (The same could go for a kid who might have once been considered for skipping a grade, but for whom a whole year would be too much socially.)

I'm sure it would cause all sorts of issues I haven't thought of yet, so this is purely "discussion fodder" for fun and not an actual goal of mine right now or anything!

This is actually how it was for my parents, who were in grade school back in the 1930’s and 40’s. Each grade was split into half-year terms. My mom and her sister were about 16 months apart in age and started school in different years. But they moved several times, and were re-evaluated and placed in the appropriate level at each new school, and by high school, they ended up graduating together in the same class.

I don’t know how it would be implemented today, as society has changed a lot. For one, most kids start school earlier and learn more academics at an earlier age. What’s taught in kindergarten now is probably what I learned in first grade: early reading and writing etc. I never went to nursery or preschool; my kindergarten was only half day and mostly focused on organized play, arts and crafts and social skills.

 

[mom2rtk]

You do realize that parents pay for their child(ren) to participate in school sports, and other activities, do you not?

Never paid a dime for school sports or extra curriculars.

 

[Colleen27]

not everywhere. my state passed a newer law that strictly regulates charging for anything related to optional, non-credit extracurricular events that are cultural, social, recreational, or athletic in nature. this extends to including the family members of students who are playing in sports that traditionally charge an admission fee to view your student. the goal is to remove barriers to student participation and consider policies that further reduce obstacles to participation (like team fees, uniform fees...all the stuff that just keeps adding up).

I'm pretty sure that would put an end to most extracurriculars here. The pay-to-play fees provide most of the athletic department's funding, with ticket sales, concessions, and other fundraisers making up the rest. Other than facilities upkeep for the stadium, pool, etc., the district really doesn't fund extracurriculars at all and there's no room in the budget for them to start.

Wow! Never heard of this. It’s not that way here. It’s so interesting to hear about how things work in different parts of the States.

It is $175 per athlete here. There's been talk of lowering the fee but making it per sport, rather than per student, which would save single-sport athletes' families some money but cost multi-sport athletes more, but for now the voices that don't want to throw up barriers between athletic students and participation in "off season" sports that aren't their main focus are holding the line at the per-student fee.

 

[sam_gordon]

Oldest daughter played MS softball for three years.
Son played MS soccer for three years, basketball for three years, and HS soccer for five years (can play JV as 8th grader)
Youngest daughter played MS soccer for three years and is on 3rd year of HS soccer.

EVERY team has required SOME financial support. Usually a "team fee", fundraiser participation, and concession donations to say nothing about volunteer hours. The teams (via the boosters), although getting some stipend from the school, have to pay for:
* Busses
* Referees
* Uniforms (about every 3-5 years)
* Equipment (balls, cones, nets)
* Anything "special" (ie: jersey shadow boxes, banners, balloons, flowers, etc) for Senior Night

 

[Moliphino]

Out of curiosity I looked up the fees for playing sports at the local high school. Most are between $180-250 for a season, skiing is $300 and hockey is $450.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I'm pretty sure that would put an end to most extracurriculars here. The pay-to-play fees provide most of the athletic department's funding, with ticket sales, concessions, and other fundraisers making up the rest. Other than facilities upkeep for the stadium, pool, etc., the district really doesn't fund extracurriculars at all and there's no room in the budget for them to start.



It is $175 per athlete here. There's been talk of lowering the fee but making it per sport, rather than per student, which would save single-sport athletes' families some money but cost multi-sport athletes more, but for now the voices that don't want to throw up barriers between athletic students and participation in "off season" sports that aren't their main focus are holding the line at the per-student fee.

I was beginning to think I was the only one with a school system that charged fees for extra curricula activities. It's all of them, not just sports. French Club, Math Club, etc. All have fees. Just classes that are held during school hours are "free" so to speak. After hours are extra costs. It's like this, if it's voluntary, it's extra.
Band fees are even worse than sports fees, though none get funds from the school system
Band fees, for everything, uniforms, travel costs, equipment, etc, $550 for fall sports session. We'll pay another $300+ for Winter session
The teams run the concession stands and the band runs the parking.
We have several regular fund raisers during the year too, section car washes, mattress sales,

 

[Cheburashka]

Would you want the school system to change to a shorter summer vacation and instead switch to a longer winter break? I’m curious if that would help the academic skills of students and help them retain knowledge better. Thoughts?

No, they would lose a lot of learning from the first half of the year. You don't want to do that twice per year. Getting past summer learning loss is enough already. There are exams in the spring, so a big break midwinter doesn't make sense.

 

[Cheburashka]

I would love to see year round school, with a 2-3 week break between each quarter... I think it would also help with school employees having a full year of pay.

It wouldn't help because we'd still be working the same amount overall, so it would be the same pay, but without the chance to take a summer job to supplement our income, like I've done for the past 2 summers.

Changing to a year-round school schedule is a hard no for me. Being able to work in the summer to earn money is important to me as a teacher, and a lot of older students do it, too. Not to mention the enrichment possibilities that an open summer provides.

Year-round school is primarily a benefit to underprivileged children who receive no enriching experiences in the summer and who are too young to work. It doesn't benefit those who have enriching summer experiences, or those students & teachers who take jobs in the summer to earn money. Like so many things in life, it's good for some and bad for others.

 

[DisneyOma]

You do realize that parents pay for their child(ren) to participate in school sports, and other activities, do you not?

They don't pay as much as it actually costs though, do they? Hockey, for example, is very expensive because they have to pay for ice time for games and practices. Of course the subsidized school sports cost so much less than the unsubsidized sports - synchro took $$$ and there are very, very few schools that have a synchro team.

 

[sam_gordon]

They don't pay as much as it actually costs though, do they? Hockey, for example, is very expensive because they have to pay for ice time for games and practices. Of course the subsidized school sports cost so much less than the unsubsidized sports - synchro took $$$ and there are very, very few schools that have a synchro team.

Was synchro an actual school "sport" or was it a "club"? If it was classified as a sport, you would have an argument that they should get an equitable amount of money from the school as other sports. Do the other sports get a certain amount of money (regardless of costs and number of participants) or does it vary based on the sport?

 

[DisneyOma]

Was synchro an actual school "sport" or was it a "club"? If it was classified as a sport, you would have an argument that they should get an equitable amount of money from the school as other sports. Do the other sports get a certain amount of money (regardless of costs and number of participants) or does it vary based on the sport?

Not sure - there were only 2-3 school teams when my daughter competed a decade ago. There were none in our area, nor even in our state. We only saw them at the bigger competitions. What I was trying to point out is that there is inequity in sports for high school students. Some get subsidized by tax dollars and some don't. One senior level synchro slater petitioned successfully to be awarded varsity letters for her years of international competition. That's about the only thing our school has done to help out students who don't play the stereotypical "American HS Sports".

 

[sam_gordon]

Not sure - there were only 2-3 school teams when my daughter competed a decade ago. There were none in our area, nor even in our state. We only saw them at the bigger competitions. What I was trying to point out is that there is inequity in sports for high school students. Some get subsidized by tax dollars and some don't. One senior level synchro slater petitioned successfully to be awarded varsity letters for her years of international competition. That's about the only thing our school has done to help out students who don't play the stereotypical "American HS Sports".

The bolded is what I was commenting about. If it wasn't a school recognized "sport", I can understand not getting school money for it. If there was no competition in your state, unless you live close to another state with competitive teams, this makes sense to me.

Sports (including band) DO have many benefits, so I do think they should be subsidized by the school system. This also allows underprivileged students the opportunity to participate when they might not be able to participate in "club" sports.

Now, I also feel there should be equity in how much money schools give each team. I don't know what the calculation is, but it should be equal. I can see a school say "we'll give $x to the team for every varsity member and $y for JV". I can see them say "We'll give every team (regardless of cost and roster size) $x." Should hockey (or synchro) get more money because they need to rent ice time? Should the football team get more money because it has the largest roster (more than likely)? Should football and basketball (for most school) get more money because they bring in more money (gate)?

 

[Where’s the beef]

Agree with the conclusions this author offers or not, but I share the article for the linked studies.
It’s frustrating to see “learning loss” as some huge concern for people without seeing the same outcry for kids who struggle in the school environment for other reasons or the state of our education system in general. Not one person here has mentioned school as an important source of housing or food, which is a huge benefit of fewer breaks for a lot of kids. Instead it’s focused on some standard of excellence we expect.

I’m happy with summer and more concerned about my kids’ teachers teaching them that blood is blue and calling themselves the “notebook nazis.” That’s not even learning loss, that’s not learning to begin with. There’s plenty of room to improve the system and focusing on how much algebra has to be refreshed the year after ninth grade isn’t really high on the list.

https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/learning-loss-is-a-dangerous-myth-bbb424f363ae

 

[HopperFan]

Would you want the school system to change to a shorter summer vacation and instead switch to a longer winter break? I’m curious if that would help the academic skills of students and help them retain knowledge better. Thoughts?

I think they already do this in some districts where the gap is thought to be a negative. I think it completely depends on the district, their scores, their summer care situation, how many kids end up in summer school etc.

I know in our area it would upend more than just families - it would impact local pools, local theme parks, volumes of camps, and potentially eliminate options for daycare they have now for breaks. It would hurt those kids who normally work all summer to save money because their school year is too busy for jobs. It would hurt sports teams, both school and club that have summer seasons. It would make it difficult for families who share custody and children spend summers with a parent. It is more than just children's performance - it has wider impacts.

I would have no interest in a longer winter break, if I were to shift summer times to other times it would be a decent fall and winter break instead of our long weekends. This gives more options for vacations. It would also be to give TEACHERS time off because right now many of our extra days off are only for the kids.

 

[sdoll]

They need to get rid of the long Summer Break and replace it with shorter breaks through the year.

My cousins had a year round schedule and I was always envious. I have a son with learning disabilities and I always thought the summers were too long for him to stay at grade level with reading. Even with tutors and working on reading. I would love a more, but shorter breaks.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

They don't pay as much as it actually costs though, do they? Hockey, for example, is very expensive because they have to pay for ice time for games and practices. Of course the subsidized school sports cost so much less than the unsubsidized sports - synchro took $$$ and there are very, very few schools that have a synchro team.

Oh, I wouldn't have any clue on that because I don't have any way to know what it costs to run a sport/activity.
I know it's not cheap to participate, that's about it. All total, for the entire school year, I pay roughly $1000 for band fees. That's not counting any trips they take. Like last year was to Indy and this year I think will be Charleston SC but that's still slightly up in the air. It was going to be London.