Would you want the school system to change to a shorter summer vacation and instead switch to a longer winter break?

[tcufrog]

They should just take the school out of the sports business to begin with, IMO. Why should tax dollars be paid to subsidize a few sports? My kids did non-school sports, we paid out of pocket for all of it, from summer soccer and softball to dance, gymnastics and ice skating. Was always tempted to submit a "bill" at the school committee budget meetings! Why pay for hockey but not synchronized skating?

I agree. Even though my older son loves marching band I'd be happy if high school sports went away. Our district just paid for a new stadium for the 2 high schools and built an indoor football practice facility at each high school. Our high school has 4 counselors for 2,600 students and none of the district's schools have a librarian.

 

[sam_gordon]

I agree. Even though my older son loves marching band I'd be happy if high school sports went away. Our district just paid for a new stadium for the 2 high schools and built an indoor football practice facility at each high school. Our high school has 4 counselors for 2,600 students and none of the district's schools have a librarian.

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of benefits to participating in HS sports. And I do understand there are some parts of the country where HS football stadiums/facilities rival some small colleges. BUT, I also understand there are a LOT of people who go to the games. That brings in gate money, concession money, and advertiser money to the schools/teams to say nothing of tourist (gas & food at minimum) money to surrounding businesses.

Benefits to HS sport participation:
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/participation-in-high-school-athletics-has-long-lasting-benefits/
https://blog.friendscentral.org/6-benefits-of-participating-in-high-school-sports
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/10-reasons-why-high-school-sports-benefit-students

There are plenty of other links.

 

[HopperFan]

Wow! Never heard of this. It’s not that way here. It’s so interesting to hear about how things work in different parts of the States.

Every school district handles things differently even in our metro area.

Neighboring County schools used to share a football stadium, when I grew up 4 schools shared one. Now in our district each school has their own, it is built into the budget but that field is used by football, 4 soccer teams, 4 lacrosse teams, marching band, 2 track & field teams. Neighboring districts pay coaches sometimes 3-4x what our coaches are paid. They are heavy sports focused. They get good coaches. Families will move there just for sports. Our district is more academic focused.

In our district they provide a venue for SOME sports, they provide a set number of coaches and they provide buses to competitions. Say for Track & Field, they provide I think 5 coaches. That isn't enough for most teams so the "booster club" pays for the other 4 coaches. The booster club is basically parents paying fees to compete and parents/kids fundraising. I ran several booster clubs over the years. There is a budget agreed on by coaches and booster club on how much money is required and how much booster agrees to raise. So maybe a coach doesn't get hired, maybe an overnight meet doesn't happen ... No venue is provided for cross country. My kid's school had creative land around it so I tacked raising the $15,000 we needed to build a course. While we build things and pay for things they are owned by the school.

As a parent I paid Fees (anywhere from $125-250), I bought their uniform ($100), I bought any spirit wear they wanted, I paid for their away meet fees if they were invited ($250 but DS just told me this year it is $475), I paid for their shoes ($100), I paid for their Letter Jacket should they qualify ($300) and participated in any fundraising for the team. Kids who can't afford can not be kept from competing in any "qualifying" events - which did not include the away meet trip. Coaches would always have a box of uniforms, mostly used ones left behind, kids could compete in regular tennis shoes or for a top athlete coaches had discretionary. Our top athlete couldn't afford letter jacket so I got two parents to split the cost with me and he got one. But the bottom line is the School District provided very little money to run this sport. Most sports have to be self-sustaining which means parents have to step up.

Also if a team wants extras like fancy locker rooms, indoor practice fields etc the booster clubs need to raise the money or find a donor. When our high school was built the football field was phase II. A team of parents co-signed a loan to build the stadium immediately and the loan was paid off when the district budget had it set. To pay interest they sold bricks with names on them.

Most the costs of running any sports programs in our schools is paid for by the parents, the athletes and the gate receipts. Many of the venues provided - such as gyms are used by the entire school and for lots of non-sport events.

Sports are a very important part of the high school years. My DS is now a coach. Yes he is a good coach and has many state wins BUT he also knows that most the kids on his team will not go on to compete. What he is teaching them is goal setting, commitment, consistent work outs, healthy lifestyles, working as a team, supporting others. Life skills.

Sports are to some kids the same importance as Debate Club, Orchestra, Model UN, Chorus, Theater, Math Club .....

 

[Mrs.AMC]

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of benefits to participating in HS sports. And I do understand there are some parts of the country where HS football stadiums/facilities rival some small colleges. BUT, I also understand there are a LOT of people who go to the games. That brings in gate money, concession money, and advertiser money to the schools/teams to say nothing of tourist (gas & food at minimum) money to surrounding businesses.

Benefits to HS sport participation:
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/participation-in-high-school-athletics-has-long-lasting-benefits/
https://blog.friendscentral.org/6-benefits-of-participating-in-high-school-sports
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/10-reasons-why-high-school-sports-benefit-students

There are plenty of other links.

Maybe mentioned in those links but what about the college scholarship opportunities to the participants? The scouts find them at those HS games. I know some may argue that as a negative but you tell that to some of those kids who got 4 year degrees on a full ride in exchange for playing a sport that they honed in High School.

They should just take the school out of the sports business to begin with, IMO. Why should tax dollars be paid to subsidize a few sports? My kids did non-school sports, we paid out of pocket for all of it, from summer soccer and softball to dance, gymnastics and ice skating. Was always tempted to submit a "bill" at the school committee budget meetings! Why pay for hockey but not synchronized skating?

High Schools will get out of the sports business when Colleges do. Which is going to be never.

 

[Disneylover99]

Every school district handles things differently even in our metro area.

Neighboring County schools used to share a football stadium, when I grew up 4 schools shared one. Now in our district each school has their own, it is built into the budget but that field is used by football, 4 soccer teams, 4 lacrosse teams, marching band, 2 track & field teams. Neighboring districts pay coaches sometimes 3-4x what our coaches are paid. They are heavy sports focused. They get good coaches. Families will move there just for sports. Our district is more academic focused.

In our district they provide a venue for SOME sports, they provide a set number of coaches and they provide buses to competitions. Say for Track & Field, they provide I think 5 coaches. That isn't enough for most teams so the "booster club" pays for the other 4 coaches. The booster club is basically parents paying fees to compete and parents/kids fundraising. I ran several booster clubs over the years. There is a budget agreed on by coaches and booster club on how much money is required and how much booster agrees to raise. So maybe a coach doesn't get hired, maybe an overnight meet doesn't happen ... No venue is provided for cross country. My kid's school had creative land around it so I tacked raising the $15,000 we needed to build a course. While we build things and pay for things they are owned by the school.

As a parent I paid Fees (anywhere from $125-250), I bought their uniform ($100), I bought any spirit wear they wanted, I paid for their away meet fees if they were invited ($250 but DS just told me this year it is $475), I paid for their shoes ($100), I paid for their Letter Jacket should they qualify ($300) and participated in any fundraising for the team. Kids who can't afford can not be kept from competing in any "qualifying" events - which did not include the away meet trip. Coaches would always have a box of uniforms, mostly used ones left behind, kids could compete in regular tennis shoes or for a top athlete coaches had discretionary. Our top athlete couldn't afford letter jacket so I got two parents to split the cost with me and he got one. But the bottom line is the School District provided very little money to run this sport. Most sports have to be self-sustaining which means parents have to step up.

Also if a team wants extras like fancy locker rooms, indoor practice fields etc the booster clubs need to raise the money or find a donor. When our high school was built the football field was phase II. A team of parents co-signed a loan to build the stadium immediately and the loan was paid off when the district budget had it set. To pay interest they sold bricks with names on them.

Most the costs of running any sports programs in our schools is paid for by the parents, the athletes and the gate receipts. Many of the venues provided - such as gyms are used by the entire school and for lots of non-sport events.

Sports are a very important part of the high school years. My DS is now a coach. Yes he is a good coach and has many state wins BUT he also knows that most the kids on his team will not go on to compete. What he is teaching them is goal setting, commitment, consistent work outs, healthy lifestyles, working as a team, supporting others. Life skills.

Sports are to some kids the same importance as Debate Club, Orchestra, Model UN, Chorus, Theater, Math Club .....

Parents have little involvement here. And sports/clubs are run by teachers after school. No extra pay for this.

 

[HopperFan]

Parents have little involvement here. And sports/clubs are run by teachers after school. No extra pay for this.

The teachers are not paid extra?

 

[Disneylover99]

The teachers are not paid extra?

No.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I agree. Even though my older son loves marching band I'd be happy if high school sports went away. Our district just paid for a new stadium for the 2 high schools and built an indoor football practice facility at each high school. Our high school has 4 counselors for 2,600 students and none of the district's schools have a librarian.

Our town started an Education Fund when they decided to build a local High School, instead of sending the kids to a neighboring town. They organized this group, lobbied the county school system to build the school, got it passed on the local city ballot, raised city property taxes to fund part of it, and now raise money to fund several instructors at the town schools. We have 2 elementary schools and 1 middle/high combo school. The MEF funds a computer teacher, music teacher, art teacher at the elementary level and I'm not even sure what all they do at the Middle/High level. It is quite sad what the school system itself can't provide. Or won't. Not all areas can have a group like we have. It takes a lot of very motivated and caring people in a community to do things like that.

 

[sam_gordon]

Maybe mentioned in those links but what about the college scholarship opportunities to the participants? The scouts find them at those HS games. I know some may argue that as a negative but you tell that to some of those kids who got 4 year degrees on a full ride in exchange for playing a sport that they honed in High School.

Actually, I don't think many scouts go to HS games (with the exception of FB). All the other sports will have "club" seasons/tournaments that give scouts the opportunity to see dozens of good players at one site vs the handful (if that) they see at one HS game.

According to https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds, only 7.5% of HS athletes end up playing in college. And with the exception of FB and BB, few of THOSE get athletic scholarship money, VERY few get full rides.

 

[HopperFan]

No.

So teachers are expected to work overtime and be responsible for students outside of the school day for free? I can't even begin to process that.

We are not even a high paying stipend district, others pay much more -

This is on top of a teaching salary, and note many football coaches don't teach just get paid.
- Head Football Coach $9300 plus bonus which could be thousands
- Intramural Leader $4400
- Lacrosse Head Coach $4400 plus bonus
- Orchestra Director $3700

They even get paid extra if they do Book Inventory. No teacher is expected to work overtime for free.

I know of some neighboring football powerhouses who coaches make WELL OVER $100,000 and they don't teach, just coach.

Actually, I don't think many scouts go to HS games (with the exception of FB). All the other sports will have "club" seasons/tournaments that give scouts the opportunity to see dozens of good players at one site vs the handful (if that) they see at one HS game.

According to https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds, only 7.5% of HS athletes end up playing in college. And with the exception of FB and BB, few of THOSE get athletic scholarship money, VERY few get full rides.

YUP YUP. Same here. Even the football players have to pay to have videos and packets put together to submit to scouts to get them to come. Most other sports are recruited only from clubs. Exceptions might be track & field, cross country and wrestling who do more state wide style competitions where college coaches can see many at once.

 

[Disneylover99]

So teachers are expected to work overtime and be responsible for students outside of the school day for free? I can't even begin to process that.

We are not even a high paying stipend district, others pay much more -

This is on top of a teaching salary, and note many football coaches don't teach just get paid.
- Head Football Coach $9300 plus bonus which could be thousands
- Intramural Leader $4400
- Lacrosse Head Coach $4400 plus bonus
- Orchestra Director $3700

They even get paid extra if they do Book Inventory. No teacher is expected to work overtime for free.

I know of some neighboring football powerhouses who coaches make WELL OVER $100,000 and they don't teach, just coach.

Yes. It’s strictly volunteer, but the expectation is that teachers pull their weight in some ways, either coaching or running clubs. Teachers in Ontario are well paid compared to many but the workload throughout the school year can seem never ending.

 

[HopperFan]

Yes. It’s strictly volunteer, but the expectation is that teachers pull their weight in some ways, either coaching or running clubs. Teachers in Ontario are well paid compared to many but the workload throughout the school year can seem never ending.

I guess if their base pay reflects it that makes a difference.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

Actually, I don't think many scouts go to HS games (with the exception of FB). All the other sports will have "club" seasons/tournaments that give scouts the opportunity to see dozens of good players at one site vs the handful (if that) they see at one HS game.

According to https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds, only 7.5% of HS athletes end up playing in college. And with the exception of FB and BB, few of THOSE get athletic scholarship money, VERY few get full rides.

? Didn't recall ever saying a lot got scholarships. I believe all I said was some got players got 4 year degrees from playing HS sports. Even if 1 kid got one it counts, no? All I said was it is an item on a list of reasons to have HS sports. It sure isn't a reason NOT to.
Majority on the 80some odd man roster of the DIV1 college football team are on scholarship. Most of the Basketball. Most baseball are on partial, few get a full though that one is slowly changing as that revenue is going up
Around here we have College Scouts at our Softball, Basketball, Baseball and Football games. Heck, we have Golf teams in our HS and the 3 private prep schools in the area. They get scholarships though no idea if there are golf scouts.

 

[sam_gordon]

? Didn't recall ever saying a lot got scholarships. I believe all I said was some got players got 4 year degrees from playing HS sports. Even if 1 kid got one it counts, no? All I said was it is an item on a list of reasons to have HS sports. It sure isn't a reason NOT to.
Majority on the 80some odd man roster of the DIV1 college football team are on scholarship. Most of the Basketball. Most baseball are on partial, few get a full though that one is slowly changing as that revenue is going up
Around here we have College Scouts at our Softball, Basketball, Baseball and Football games. Heck, we have Golf teams in our HS and the 3 private prep schools in the area. They get scholarships though no idea if there are golf scouts.

As I said, FB and BB are the exceptions to the numbers of athletes with full ride scholarships. Here's the chart limit from 2020-21: https://scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits

And while scholarships aren't a reason to NOT have school sports, I'm not convinced they are a strong reason TO have school sports. That's why I brought up the % of HS athletes who transition to college. 7.5% isn't a high number. And that's going to include those playing DIII which give out $0 in athletic money.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

As I said, FB and BB are the exceptions to the numbers of athletes with full ride scholarships. Here's the chart limit from 2020-21: https://scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits

And while scholarships aren't a reason to NOT have school sports, I'm not convinced they are a strong reason TO have school sports. That's why I brought up the % of HS athletes who transition to college. 7.5% isn't a high number. And that's going to include those playing DIII which give out $0 in athletic money.

Nope, never said a strong reason either. All I said was it was on the list of reasons. That list may have 100 reasons. Sports could be #100 on the list. I never said otherwise. I'm not really sure what the entire issue you had is quite honestly. I simply mentioned it was part of it. Never said it was a major factor at all. If 1 student get a degree from a sports scholarship it counts. They all count. Goodness.

 

[sam_gordon]

Nope, never said a strong reason either. All I said was it was on the list of reasons. That list may have 100 reasons. Sports could be #100 on the list. I never said otherwise. I'm not really sure what the entire issue you had is quite honestly. I simply mentioned it was part of it. Never said it was a major factor at all. If 1 student get a degree from a sports scholarship it counts. They all count. Goodness.

I'm offering a different opinion. That's all. I disagree that college athletic scholarships are a benefit of HS sports.

 

[mumto3girls]

Oldest daughter played MS softball for three years.
Son played MS soccer for three years, basketball for three years, and HS soccer for five years (can play JV as 8th grader)
Youngest daughter played MS soccer for three years and is on 3rd year of HS soccer.

EVERY team has required SOME financial support. Usually a "team fee", fundraiser participation, and concession donations to say nothing about volunteer hours. The teams (via the boosters), although getting some stipend from the school, have to pay for:
* Busses
* Referees
* Uniforms (about every 3-5 years)
* Equipment (balls, cones, nets)
* Anything "special" (ie: jersey shadow boxes, banners, balloons, flowers, etc) for Senior Night

This is basically the way it works here. We do pay a $50 activity fee per year that covers any activity your kid does from athletics to band to the French club. You pay that $50 if your kid does 1 activity or multiple activities. You don’t have to pay if your kid does nothing and the fee is waived/pro rated for those that qualify for free/reduced price lunch. The real money comes from the boosters and the fundraising/donating that goes along with that. We don’t like to hit friends and family up for fundraising so we usually just buy the tickets (or whatever it is) ourselves. We probably spend about $500 for school volleyball, but that is nothing compared to club fees.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

This is basically the way it works here. We do pay a $50 activity fee per year that covers any activity your kid does from athletics to band to the French club. You pay that $50 if your kid does 1 activity or multiple activities. You don’t have to pay if your kid does nothing and the fee is waived/pro rated for those that qualify for free/reduced price lunch. The real money comes from the boosters and the fundraising/donating that goes along with that. We don’t like to hit friends and family up for fundraising so we usually just buy the tickets (or whatever it is) ourselves. We probably spend about $500 for school volleyball, but that is nothing compared to club fees.

That is one area where things have gotten fuzzy here. All students get free lunch now. Started about 3 years ago. At first it was majority of schools in the county, with only a very few of the highest income areas not qualifying. I forget what parameters they used, avg something or other. It wasn't an income but maybe a tax bracket of some sort. Been too long for me to recall. Our city's schools were on the list that didn't quality. That lasted for about a year then they changed it and all of our schools give all of the kids a free basic lunch. They can pay for extras using an online account. It does eliminate using the free lunch program to determine who gets fees waived. I don't know what they use now. I know school fees can't be mandatory. Not talking extra curricula fees, but general school classroom fees that every student has. They tried to make it where they'd withhold report cards until fees were paid but learned that was illegal so that was stopped many years ago.