Would you let your SON dress up as a princess at Disney?

[kamik86]

I always wondered why it is always ok for girls to wear guys clothes. I did this alot actually. But not guys to wear girls clothes.

My husband actually brought this up when we were dating in high school. Because one day I spilt something on my shirt and just wore his home and kinda ended up stealing it for a few more time sand then he let me have it as he didn't like the shirt much and I really did. So he wanted to know if he could steal my clothes... AT which point I told him if he wanted to wear them be my guest... he only would at his house though.

I'm surprised my high school never had guys show up in skirts. Because it gets hot sometimes before school ends, girls can wear shirts but guys can only wear long pants (no shirts allowed by dress code).

If a little boy wants to wear a dress let them. My DH did wear a dress to school once for halloween. He isn't gay, has no gay tendencies at all really (unless you count that he REALLY likes to shop) but he did. No one picked on him, he pulled off a girl really well actually.

 

[NikitaZee]

You know this thread makes me very very sad. I am all for a good debate, discussion, whatever folks want to call this thread. I am all for people having different opinions.

I guess what bothers me is this condescending tone that seems to be taking over. Lots of laughing smilies at other people's posts, lots of snippy remarks about other people's opinions. It amazes me how sometimes the people who think they are the most open minded are the first to be so, I don't know, obnoxious. I think it's the tone of self righteousness that gets me the most. The way some of the posts here are written really gives off the impression that if you do not agree with them, then you are backwoods and stupid.

I really hope that's not the case.

I agree 100%.

 

[Andtototoo]

I always wondered why it is always ok for girls to wear guys clothes. I did this alot actually. But not guys to wear girls clothes.

It's because our culture still has a lot of misogyny. Male is good for everyone. Female is less than good -- it's merely acceptable and only if you're female. So it's okay for women to "act" like men, but not okay for men to "act" like women.

Of course, these social norms are relatively recent. In the animal world, the male is the more colorful gender. In human history, the idea that men have to have plain clothing and appearance dates only to the early 19th century when England's Beau Brummel created a radical change in the way fashionable men dressed by popularizing black and white as the acceptable suit. Before that, men in western civilization were just as colorful and slaves to fashion as women.

 

[Uncle Remus]

It's because our culture still has a lot of misogyny. Male is good for everyone. Female is less than good -- it's merely acceptable and only if you're female. So it's okay for women to "act" like men, but not okay for men to "act" like women.

Of course, these social norms are relatively recent. In the animal world, the male is the more colorful gender. In human history, the idea that men have to have plain clothing and appearance dates only to the early 19th century when England's Beau Brummel created a radical change in the way fashionable men dressed by popularizing black and white as the acceptable suit. Before that, men in western civilization were just as colorful and slaves to fashion as women.

Thanks for this post!

I love History!!

 

[PeterPan09]

Madonna said it pretty well in her song "What it feels like for a girl"

Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly you'd love to know what it's like
Wouldn't you
What it feels like for a girl

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I've found the comments about "open mindedness" to be a bit condescending as well, as if you don't have a rigid definition of gender roles then you are some kind of fruitcake.

As has been said-I am and will continue to be intolerant of other people's intolerance. Intolerance creates the kind of bully that parents want to protect their kids from.

I understand that, I really do. Being intolerant, even of intolerance, can create the kind of bully that parents want to protect their kids from. I'm not trying to start a brawl, but can you see that insinuating that someone is stupid for their point of view is just as bad no matter what side of the fence you are fighting from? And none of this is really directed at one particular poster, on either side. But sarcasm and condescension rarely get anything accomplished.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few things that I am completely intolerant of. Boys wearing dresses isn't one of them. However, it was just a question. Would YOU let YOUR 3 YR OLD son.............

How this got turned into women making less than men and insinuations of this or that, crunchy or non-crunchy.......... GOOD LORD. I now totally understand why our country can't come together on anything!

Frustrated.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I understand that, I really do. Being intolerant, even of intolerance, can create the kind of bully that parents want to protect their kids from. I'm not trying to start a brawl, but can you see that insinuating that someone is stupid for their point of view is just as bad no matter what side of the fence you are fighting from? And none of this is really directed at one particular poster, on either side. But sarcasm and condescension rarely get anything accomplished.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few things that I am completely intolerant of. Boys wearing dresses isn't one of them. However, it was just a question. Would YOU let YOUR 3 YR OLD son.............

How this got turned into women making less than men and insinuations of this or that, crunchy or non-crunchy.......... GOOD LORD. I now totally understand why our country can't come together on anything!

Frustrated.

Maybe coz it's a li'l more complex than black or white, yes or no or even right or wrong?

 

[Mrs.Toad]

You know this thread makes me very very sad. I am all for a good debate, discussion, whatever folks want to call this thread. I am all for people having different opinions.

I guess what bothers me is this condescending tone that seems to be taking over. Lots of laughing smilies at other people's posts, lots of snippy remarks about other people's opinions. It amazes me how sometimes the people who think they are the most open minded are the first to be so, I don't know, obnoxious. I think it's the tone of self righteousness that gets me the most. The way some of the posts here are written really gives off the impression that if you do not agree with them, then you are backwoods and stupid.

I really hope that's not the case.

Hmm, interesting that you focus on the "open-minded" people being "obnoxious". (Though as we discussed before, I don't think anyone here claimed to be open-minded. Not sure why so many seem so focused on it.)

I have seen plenty of condescending comments from both sides, and the single most obnoxious comment I noticed in the thread was this one, way back at the beginning:

Besides that - and feel free to flame me -- it's WEIRD. Plain and simple.

snip

When you let your mind become so "open" that your brain falls out, that's a problem.

 

[PeterPan09]

I understand that, I really do. Being intolerant, even of intolerance, can create the kind of bully that parents want to protect their kids from. I'm not trying to start a brawl, but can you see that insinuating that someone is stupid for their point of view is just as bad no matter what side of the fence you are fighting from? And none of this is really directed at one particular poster, on either side. But sarcasm and condescension rarely get anything accomplished.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few things that I am completely intolerant of. Boys wearing dresses isn't one of them. However, it was just a question. Would YOU let YOUR 3 YR OLD son.............

How this got turned into women making less than men and insinuations of this or that, crunchy or non-crunchy.......... GOOD LORD. I now totally understand why our country can't come together on anything!

Frustrated.

Because attitudes about gender are why women make less than men. They are why LGBT have to fight for the basic rights that heterosexual folks have.

As for the lecture posts-that usually signals to me that any meaningful discussion is over. They also remind me a little of the SNL Church Lady but that's a whole 'nother thing.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Because attitudes about gender are why women make less than men. They are why LGBT have to fight for the basic rights that heterosexual folks have.

As for the lecture posts-that usually signals to me that any meaningful discussion is over. They also remind me a little of the SNL Church Lady but that's a whole 'nother thing.

Love the Church Lady!!

 

[NikitaZee]

Because attitudes about gender are why women make less than men. They are why LGBT have to fight for the basic rights that heterosexual folks have.

As for the lecture posts-that usually signals to me that any meaningful discussion is over. They also remind me a little of the SNL Church Lady but that's a whole 'nother thing.

There have been 'lecture posts' and lecture one-liners throughout this whole thread.

Church Lady has been all over this thread, from both sides.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Maybe coz it's a li'l more complex than black or white, yes or no or even right or wrong?

ITA that this is more complex..... And I don't know everyone's history and they don't know mine. I just thought in the beginning that this was a very interesting thread with very interesting points of view. Then it seemed to get nasty.

Hmm, interesting that you focus on the "open-minded" people being "obnoxious". (Though as we discussed before, I don't think anyone here claimed to be open-minded. Not sure why so many seem so focused on it.)

I have seen plenty of condescending comments from both sides, and the single most obnoxious comment I noticed in the thread was this one, way back at the beginning:

Again, agreed. Both sides of this argument have gotten out of line. Sorry if I said open-minded, didn't mean to offend.

Because attitudes about gender are why women make less than men. They are why LGBT have to fight for the basic rights that heterosexual folks have.

As for the lecture posts-that usually signals to me that any meaningful discussion is over. They also remind me a little of the SNL Church Lady but that's a whole 'nother thing.

I didn't really see it that way. But I also didn't see my post as a "lecture post". And frankly if that is what you are trying to say, then meaningful discussion was over a long time ago. And the Church Lady thing just proved my point. Thanks.

 

[luvsJack]

Obviously there are some choices that parents make for children-what school to send them to, what kind of food to have in the house, what kind of entertainment, religion or no...however, my parents drew the line at trying to choose my personality for me. They let that develop on it's own and never tried to force me to like or dislike anything. Other people's opinions were other people's problems. What they gave me was the skill and the foundation to deal with the ignorance of others. I'm not going to say I was never hurt in my life-nobody lives like that. But, that's the point-no matter how hard you try, somewhere, sometime some ignorant fool is going to find a way to pick on your kid.

You know how parents always say-"we just want you to have a happy life"? well, they meant it-a happy life where I followed my own heart.

I've known for a long time how lucky I am to have been born in the family I was-but conversations like this really bring it home.

I hope you don't think I was saying that your parents should have chosen your personality for you--not at all.

I am saying that dressing or not dressing in a princess costume at CRT is a choice. and it is a choice that may cause someone to get his feelings hurt. I would not make that choice.

I really mean it when I say I just want my child to have a happy life too. when they reach the age of making their own choices and have the necessary information to make those choices--more power to them and I will back them 100% regardless of what those choices are.

BUT, allowing a young child to wear/do something that can cause him/her to experience bullying is not a choice that has to be made and I would not choose it.

That little boy not wearing a princess costume is not going to have any bearing on his personality nor does it have any bearing on being able to teach him about the ignorance of others and how to deal with it. You do not have to experience something to know it exists or to learn how to deal with it. It is not going to keep him from following his own heart and finding his own way. I would never keep any of my children from doing just that (as two have already proven), It is simply to keep him from being hurt at a young age and NOT wanting to express himself at all.

 

[PeterPan09]

I probably should define "lecture post" and what I mean.

When the post is no longer contains anything about your own personal experience or facts to support a position and is merely a discussion of how other people are posting and how terrible it is-that's a lecture post.

You can lecture me with facts or your personal experience and I'll never take offense or hear it in a Church Lady voice. The whole point of discussing things on the internet is to get those voices of different experience and facts that I may not be privy to-at least it is for me. As I've said before-it may not change my mind-but I would never disrespect that. If I've come off in any post like I don't respect a factual, experiential choice-I didn't mean to. I've only tried to present from my perspective as someone who was a "different" kid how important it was not to have those different choices viewed negatively by my parents who I looked to for the most support.

 

[TwistGrl101]

I'm sorry, but why WOULD you let your son dress up in public in a princess costume? IMO, there is nothing normal about it, and I would probably be the stranger staring.

Now if your son was a teenager and openly gay, then I think that is a totally different scenario. But you are definitely setting him up to be made fun of and stared at to let him dress up like a Disney princess. Why not get him a PRINCE costume?!?!

 

[pyrxtc]

I always wondered why it is always ok for girls to wear guys clothes. I did this alot actually. But not guys to wear girls clothes.

My husband actually brought this up when we were dating in high school. Because one day I spilt something on my shirt and just wore his home and kinda ended up stealing it for a few more time sand then he let me have it as he didn't like the shirt much and I really did. So he wanted to know if he could steal my clothes... AT which point I told him if he wanted to wear them be my guest... he only would at his house though.

I'm surprised my high school never had guys show up in skirts. Because it gets hot sometimes before school ends, girls can wear shirts but guys can only wear long pants (no shirts allowed by dress code).

If a little boy wants to wear a dress let them. My DH did wear a dress to school once for halloween. He isn't gay, has no gay tendencies at all really (unless you count that he REALLY likes to shop) but he did. No one picked on him, he pulled off a girl really well actually.

I already put in my two cents but had to quote you. I'm sure you meant skirts.

 

[cornflake]

I'm sorry, but why WOULD you let your son dress up in public in a princess costume? IMO, there is nothing normal about it, and I would probably be the stranger staring.

Now if your son was a teenager and openly gay, then I think that is a totally different scenario. But you are definitely setting him up to be made fun of and stared at to let him dress up like a Disney princess. Why not get him a PRINCE costume?!?!

Because, in the OP scenario, he wants a princess costume. And, because, for many people in the thread, stifling a kid's expression or harmless desire solely because of other people's possible reactions isn't a choice they'd make.

 

[ICF]

Because, in the OP scenario, he wants a princess costume. And, because, for many people in the thread, stifling a kid's expression or harmless desire solely because of other people's possible reactions isn't a choice they'd make.

If your male child wanted to wear a bikini (or even a girls 1 piece) to the beach...would you be cool with that too?

 

[bettymae1121]

In a perfect world I'd have no problem with it at all. I dream of a time where people can just be who they are with no judgements attached.

That said, the world we live in isn't that place yet. I grew up bullied, teased, and picked on from 1st grade thru 8th. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone. And lets be honest, letting a boy dress up as a girl in public can set that child up for a world of hurt.

In a place like WDW where, lets face it, we'd never see those people again, I wouldn't have any objection. If my son wanted to wear such costume at school or around the neighborhood...I don't know if I'd go so far as to forbid it, but I would let me son know the possible consequences for doing so.

If my son (or daughter) showed signs of not just wanting to dress up occasionally, but seemed to be truely transgender, that's a different kettle of fish and I would do my best to be supportive, even at a young age. But to open themselves up for a childhood of pain like I had, just for a night of trick or treating, isn't something I'd encourage.

I truely wish this wasn't an issue at all though. It certainly shouldn't be.

 

[lillygator]

so what if said three year old wants to wear a swasticka shirt...is that expressing himself as well?


seems interesting that a majority on this thread who have boys that have dressed up are younger siblings of girls....