Would you let your 9 year old ride the New York subway alone?

[tedhowe]

You make excellent points and I appreciate you sharing them. As a matter of fact, I agree with most of your comments. Overprotection can cause major problems for your child including rebellion later in life. Especially if they go away to college(i.e. drinking, excessive partying, promiscuous behavior,etc). I just believe that this particular situation calls for being a little overprotective. Playing outside and running around the neighborhood is on another level from being alone in one of the largest metropolitan cities in the world.

Yup. As I've said from the start, this situation is a bit extreme for most people, but I believe that for kids who grow up in the city, 9 years old may not be too much of a stretch for an individual kid who is particularly mature.

I grew up in suburban South Jersey, but my parents both grew up in cities (my Dad in Philadelphia, my Mom in Camden, NJ). As a child, I went to a Catholic elementary school that was across town from us - about 5 miles away. Nearly all of my childhood friends were from the area right around the school - so from about the age of 9 or 10, I was allowed to ride my bike across town to play with them. I had to cross a major highway (Rt. 70 in Cherry Hill for anyone familiar with the area) and several large secondary roads, but I had been taught how to do it safely and was responsible.

By the age of 14 or 15, I was allowed to take the PATCO train into Philadelphia with friends to go do things. We went to a 4th of July concert on Ben Franklin parkway - nearly a million people there - with just 3 of us and no adults. We would often take the PATCO train, and change to the broad street subway to go to Phillies games.

We were suburban kids, but were raised by urban parents who were not afraid of the city.

 

[Kath2003]

Not incredibly common but some secondary school kids (6-12th grades) in London have to get the tube. I don't really see how it's any different from getting the public bus...? I guess I rode the subway alone at maybe 12 but I lived 20 minutes outside of London so there was no real need to do so until then. Certainly at 14 a group of friends and I headed off to Party in the Park in Hyde Park for the day, unaccompanied.

I used to walk 1.5 miles to school each way with 3 friends from 6th-12th grades (and the majority of kids still do so). In fact, I use to walk to school when I was in 5th grade with 3 friends, although we did have to check in with my Mum who was walking there with my younger siblings at the other end. We used to leave 15 minutes earlier so we could go to the park before school

People are terrified of the world these days, and it's really sad. I wonder what impact it will have on the children when they grow up - will they have enough experience of 'risk' to be able to assess situations?

 

[slo]

I don't allow my 9yr old DD to ride her bike to the end of the block unsupervised , so I"m not going to allow her to ride the subway alone either

I do allow my girls to play outside in the front yard w/o constant supervision, but they aren't allowed to leave the yard Am I paranoid of something happening to them - YES!!!! Maybe it's to much Law & Order SVU, or other shows/movies/the news that have caused me to be this way. The thought of something happening to them makes me nautious, and therefore, I will protect them as much as possible. Someday they will fight me on this, and I'll deal with it then, but for now, my 9yr old DD doesn't get upset that she can't go anywhere alone, and when she wants to ride her bike, I walk behind her (I can use the excerise anyway )

 

[rkwells]

I have yet to read the whole thread so maybe this has already been addressed...the first thing that came to mind when I read this was the tragedy of Adam Walsh.

Maybe the odds were with this kid but the worst does happen and the reward just doesn't outweigh the risk ...

 

[NHdisneylover]

I have yet to read the whole thread so maybe this has already been addressed...the first thing that came to mind when I read this was the tragedy of Adam Walsh.

Maybe the odds were with this kid but the worst does happen and the reward just doesn't outweigh the risk ...

Stories like Adam's are tragic and frightening no doubt about it. However, my point is that just about anything you can do with a child is something that has had a tragic ending for some child somewhere and somewhen (though the more often it end tragically hte less likely we are to hear about all over the news--not novel enough to hold the public's interest I guess). Properlly restrained children in safe cars with safe drivers still die in car wrecks but you probably take you child in a car sometimes. Children (even older ones) choke to death on popcorn, hard candy, fruits, etc. but I bet you let your kids eat these things (or will at some point before they are 18). These are just two easy examples. The hype and fear associated with some very well covered news story abotu a tragedy does not mean that tragedy is a likely occurence (or even anywhere as close tro as likely as something like a car wreck) but many of us live our lives now as if it is.

 

[tedhowe]

I have yet to read the whole thread so maybe this has already been addressed...the first thing that came to mind when I read this was the tragedy of Adam Walsh.

Maybe the odds were with this kid but the worst does happen and the reward just doesn't outweigh the risk ...

The whole line of reasoning that "the worst does happen" so the reward outweighs the risk ignores that there are risks to not letting a child do something as well.

The whole argument reminds me of the conversation between Dory and Marlin while they are inside the whale in Finding Nemo:

Marlin: I promised I'd never let anything happen to him.
Dory: Hmm. That's a funny thing to promise.
Marlin: What?
Dory: Well you can't never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo.

Not much fun, and not very healthy (physically, emotionally, intellectually) either.

 

[robinb]

The hype and fear associated with some very well covered news story abotu a tragedy does not mean that tragedy is a likely occurence (or even anywhere as close tro as likely as something like a car wreck) but many of us live our lives now as if it is.

Sadly, all the logic in the world will not make a dent against the "Better Safe Than Sorry" mentality of some parents. Did you know that there are some parents who won't let their 9-year old boys use the potty alone at WDW? Instead, normal 3rd and 4th graders are dragged into the ladies rooms with their mommies. You just can't reason with people like that. Their fear of an invisible Boogie Man is far too great.

 

[shortbun]

I WOULD let my 9yo ride the NYC subway alone if I was really sick of him and never wanted to see him again. Otherwise, no. There is too much chance for error - wrong stairs, wrong stop, too crowded to get on, delays. I've ridden the NYC subway, the London Underground, Le Metro, Bart, the EL, the DC Metro several times each. I'm very familiar with most of them because I travelled a lot in a previous job. I'm very comfortable in all of them. Once, I got off at the wrong stop somewhere in NYC and ended up in a VERY rough area. An old man immediately walked up to me and told me to 'turn around and get back on the train.' I got really disoriented then and went the wrong way. Luckily, my geography sense and knowledge of the city allowed me to figure out where to get off and which train to get back on to get where I was going. I doubt a 9yo could have done that alone. It would only take one time for a young child to be in a world of trouble. Why push it to prove what a smart parent you are?

 

[shortbun]

Sadly, all the logic in the world will not make a dent against the "Better Safe Than Sorry" mentality of some parents. Did you know that there are some parents who won't let their 9-year old boys use the potty alone at WDW? Instead, normal 3rd and 4th graders are dragged into the ladies rooms with their mommies. You just can't reason with people like that. Their fear of an invisible Boogie Man is far too great.

Hey, this 'mommy' says go ahead and parent how you like. Don't expect me to sacrifice my child on the NYC subway to prove what a brave parent I am. It's a huge stretch comparing WDW bathrooms with the NYC subway. You seem resentful of parents who are cautious. Why insult them? It's not for you to worry about. Your post just got me. It seemed to have a bullying tone to anyone not agreeing with your style of parenting.

 

[slo]

Sadly, all the logic in the world will not make a dent against the "Better Safe Than Sorry" mentality of some parents. Did you know that there are some parents who won't let their 9-year old boys use the potty alone at WDW? Instead, normal 3rd and 4th graders are dragged into the ladies rooms with their mommies. You just can't reason with people like that. Their fear of an invisible Boogie Man is far too great.

No offense to you, because every parent has their own way of thinking, but if I had a 9yr old boy, he would definitly be coming into the bathroom with me, or a family bathroom if one was available. I don't allow my 9yr old DD to go into the bathroom alone , so I know I wouldn't want my son to go either Do I fear the worst - absolutly!!! Why should I take a chance on something happening, when I can control the situation This has nothing to do with babying a child, it has everything to do with protecting them. I'm not a risk taker with to many things, and I'm especially not with my children.

This is not a flame at all - I just wanted to express my opinion

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Hey wait a minute! When I was 9 my parents use too put me on the subway ALONE!

Exactly!


I let me 8yo play out front without my constant supervision, let him walk home from the bus alone, let him go into restrooms alone, but I would NOT let him ride the subway in another year even if he'd ridden it with me lots of times. VERY different scenerios.

 

[Pin Wizard]

No way!

(My fourth choice to post after the first three had much more colorful words than the DIS would allow.)

 

[paigevz]

No way. Just because many things CAN happen no matter what a child is doing, doesn't mean you should then just let them do whatever. Some things just are not a good idea. Having your child on something that takes them so far away to so many stops with a bunch of strangers is just not a good idea.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Sadly, all the logic in the world will not make a dent against the "Better Safe Than Sorry" mentality of some parents. Did you know that there are some parents who won't let their 9-year old boys use the potty alone at WDW? Instead, normal 3rd and 4th graders are dragged into the ladies rooms with their mommies. You just can't reason with people like that. Their fear of an invisible Boogie Man is far too great.

Oh yes I am aware of the potty issue. I am forver telling DH that the reason there is always a line for the ladies' room is that half the boys under 14 are in there too.

Parents who suddnely got defensive about Robin's comment: Logically spekaing your child was in more danger riding in the car to WDW than s/he is going to the restroom once they do get there. It is this intense fear of the unknown inspite of logic that tells us otherwise that we were talking about (and yes I do know htat fear, I fight it down in myself quite a bit). Its okay with me that you are taking your 9 year old to the ladies' room with you (unless I relaly need to go and am stuck in line behind your boy anyway ) but I do wonder when you will feel he is old enough to go on his own? 12? 15? 18?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

And look what happened to your hair!

Yeah, that and those damn NYC liberals got to him and filled his head with a bunch of crazy ideas!!! Where were his parents?!?!

You know, in NYC's defense and as a very recent ex-Mahattanite, the city has changed more than some of you could imagine in the last 10 years...for the far better!!

 

[robinb]

Hey, this 'mommy' says go ahead and parent how you like. Don't expect me to sacrifice my child on the NYC subway to prove what a brave parent I am. It's a huge stretch comparing WDW bathrooms with the NYC subway. You seem resentful of parents who are cautious. Why insult them? It's not for you to worry about. Your post just got me. It seemed to have a bullying tone to anyone not agreeing with your style of parenting.

I did not compare riding the subway at 9 and using the potty alone. I don't know where you got that from.

The thread turned from specifics (A 9-year old on the subway alone) to a more general discussion on weighing risks and rewards in allowing children freedom. I was saying that there are some parents who are too ... "cautious" ... I guess would be the nicest word ... and that no amount of logic will make a dent in their fears of the Boogie Man and allow their children the freedom that they need to grow up.

I am not resentful about "cautious" parents. Why should I be? I don't care how they raise their kids. I just think they are doing a disservice to their children.

 

[Pin Wizard]

the city has changed more than some of you could imagine in the last 10 years...for the far better!!

I just can't imagine that ever happening. I haven't been in the area in 20 years, but NYC will always be a dangerous place to me.

 

[dcgrumpy]

I just can't imagine that ever happening. I haven't been in the area in 20 years, but NYC will always be a dangerous place to me.

Dangerous in what way?

 

[ilisao]

I just can't imagine that ever happening. I haven't been in the area in 20 years, but NYC will always be a dangerous place to me.

That's too bad you think that way. You're missing out on a lot.

NYC will always, in my mind, be the greatest city ever.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Dangerous in what way?

You name it! I remember walking to the Garden for a concert and seeing some really strange and frightening things on the streets and hanging out the windows, on fire escapes. I just tried to hurry through there as quickly as we could. And stranger yet was that this behavior didn't matter to most people walking on the street. They didn't even acknowledge that they knew it was going on. I remember spending entire days there with my sister and her husband when I was younger. Not a place I'd take my kids.