Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[skier_pete]

I was one of the people who thought the new restrictions were so illogically extreme that Riviera had to be part of a new collection of DVC2 resorts.

This is not the case. There will be no DVC2. The new restrictions are part of a change in business model: separation of the membership from ownership.

I obtained a copy of the revision to the multi-site POS dated 01/19/19 and met with a quality assurance officer in person. Riviera resale owners are indeed banned from booking any of the current 14 resorts AND all future resorts. All future resorts will follow that model.

If DVC were being honest, they should be selling nonrefundable, nontransferable membership initiation fees of $10,000, and points at $88pp. I'd have no problem with that structure. Instead they decided to tap into the allure of real estate ownership to widen the audienceship, and we have this mess of gradually watered down grandfathered memberships.

Am I unimpressed with the way management is treating "valued members"? Sure. But I try to separate my enjoyment of the Disney experience and my annoyance with DVC management.

I decided to add 75 direct at CCV - family of 6!

I can't wait for DVD to get through Riviera and NursingHome/Reflections and build that Epcot resort. Wouldn't mind adding 300 cheap resale points at that resort at all!

I do find it sort of amazing they are putting this restriction in place. It will most DEFINITELY drive resale prices down at this resort. I do have to say though that I would consider a resale buy if (a) I really like the resort and (b) the price drops low enough. Already owning other contracts, I could see eventually maybe wanting to buy a cheap Riviera contract. (Not in the market to buy right now and also based on whether they try this "lockoff premium" move again - but not ruling out something 3-5 years down the road.

 

[crvetter]

I tried to upload one, but the attachment was too large. Will rescan at lower resolution and post soon.

Thank you

 

[Mumof4mice]

Thank you

Done. I posted the scans to a new thread too.

 

[ParkHoppers]

I do find it sort of amazing they are putting this restriction in place. It will most DEFINITELY drive resale prices down at this resort. I do have to say though that I would consider a resale buy if (a) I really like the resort and (b) the price drops low enough. Already owning other contracts, I could see eventually maybe wanting to buy a cheap Riviera contract. (Not in the market to buy right now and also based on whether they try this "lockoff premium" move again - but not ruling out something 3-5 years down the road.

I would buy I resale Riviera contract if it was cheap enough no question. I would just use my other existing contract to move around if I wanted to.

 

[crvetter]

I would buy I resale Riviera contract if it was cheap enough no question. I would just use my other existing contract to move around if I wanted to.

According to the updated Multi-Site POS @Mumof4mice posted they might even allow you to pay a fee to use those points at all DVC Resorts.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

According to the updated Multi-Site POS @Mumof4mice posted they might even allow you to pay a fee to use those points at all DVC Resorts.

Gee - no one would have guessed that was coming.

 

[crvetter]

Gee - no one would have guessed that was coming.

Basically haha. In the thread @Mumof4mice started I added other comments. I’m guessing the are afraid of a resort failing in the future. So this lets them “quarantine” a resort by not allowing resale of that resort to pay the fee but others to pay.

 

[CarolynFH]

Basically haha. In the thread @Mumof4mice started I added other comments. I’m guessing the are afraid of a resort failing in the future. So this lets them “quarantine” a resort by not allowing resale of that resort to pay the fee but others to pay.

I think they’ve been studying other timeshare systems where resale buyers don’t get the same perks or privileges that direct buyers get, but they can pay $$ to add on to their resale purchase and acquire those privileges. @Dean has been predicting that move for some time now. And I’m sure there are other changes that will bring DVC into closer similarity to other timeshare systems.

 

[crvetter]

I think they’ve been studying other timeshare systems where resale buyers don’t get the same perks or privileges that direct buyers get, but they can pay $$ to add on to their resale purchase and acquire those privileges. @Dean has been predicting that move for some time now. And I’m sure there are other changes that will bring DVC into closer similarity to other timeshare systems.

Correct I was stating this was confirmed in the actual updated POS, confirming the speculation of many people on the boards and off. The post you quoted was my further speculation on the reasons on why they are adding this restriction. As a company that prides its timeshare from being different I suspect they want this in place for other reasons than other timeshares are doing it.

Personally I feel it may be to “quarantine” a resort DVC feels may be straining the system, which diminishes their direct prices, while also allowing them to double dip easier. Other changes seem to be set up that would help with this. Such as limiting resale buyers time they may book at resorts not their home, which was added to the amendments

 

[Mumof4mice]

Personally I feel it may be to “quarantine” a resort DVC feels may be straining the system, which diminishes their direct prices, while also allowing them to double dip easier. Other changes seem to be set up that would help with this. Such as limiting resale buyers time they may book at resorts not their home.

Interesting idea re. Quarantine. I do see similarities between Riviera + Reflections and OKW+SSR. R+R are not in the same caliber, location wise, compared to potential future sites with direct walking access to parks. R+R could almost be a stopgap to prevent people from staying at swolfin during the SWGE rush and discovering that they're not so bad.

Buying back contracts through ROFR at rock bottom prices (30%?) essentially has the direct buyers paying for the entire construction bill. Free rooms to rent to the public for cash, even if they have to hold more inventory of points than they prefer to.

 

[CarolynFH]

Correct I was stating this was confirmed in the actual updated POS, confirming the speculation of many people on the boards and off. The post you quoted was my further speculation on the reasons on why they are adding this restriction. As a company that prides its timeshare from being different I suspect they want this in place for other reasons than other timeshares are doing it.

Personally I feel it may be to “quarantine” a resort DVC feels may be straining the system, which diminishes their direct prices, while also allowing them to double dip easier. Other changes seem to be set up that would help with this. Such as limiting resale buyers time they may book at resorts not their home, which was added to the amendments

I’m not so sure that DVD “prides its timeshare from being different” anymore.

 

[crvetter]

I’m not so sure that DVD “prides its timeshare from being different” anymore.

I think they still will market themselves as much. And I honestly do think they believe themselves to be different. I mean inherently it is in a sense that all the resorts exist at the exact same destination and they are all so heavily connected (most other timeshares are 1-2 resort at each destination). So I still strongly suspect their motivations are significantly different than other timeshares. While they may be doing similar things, they probably have different motivations. With that being said all we can see externally is they set it up they can do something similar. But we don’t know their motivations or the implications 100% yet because it hasn’t played out.

Either way I’m not into their changes and have told many people in DVC this. They did tell me as a direct buyer it didn’t matter which I countered value to me was how everyone was treated equally giving me a strong resale value (in the current market).

 

[drusba]

I am still reviewing to try to figure it out, but it appears there is a material difference in the document about resale purchasers from what we were told before. We were told all pre-Jan 19, 2019 owners will be able to reserve Riviera using their points; that is true according to the document. We were also told that future resale purchasers of Riviera and other future resorts will be limited to reserving their home resort. That is also true with provisions thrown in to allow DVD to modify that rule in the future, such as by allowing a future Riviera resale purchaser to have broader reservations rights for a fee.

We were also informed that post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 14 resorts will be limited to reserving those 14 resorts. That one appears now to be only partly true. Focus is on Exhibit 6, paragraph 2, at the top of page two in the document, which is repeated near the bottom of page three:

"2. Effective January 19, 2019, Club Members at all other DVC Resorts, including any future DVC Resorts, who purchase an ownership interest at any DVC Resort other than Riviera Resort, including at any future DVC Resort, from a third party other than directly from DVD, or other seller approved by DVD, may not convert the Vacation Points related to the Ownership Interest from the other DVC Resort to DVC Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes at Riviera Resort through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers who purchase an Ownership Interest at any DVC Resort, other than Riviera Resort, including any furture DVC Resorts, from a Club Member who owned the Ownership Interest prior to January 19, 2019, are excluded from the prohibition set forth in this paragraph 2.”

The sentence I have bolded says post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 14 resorts can reserve Riviera as long as they purchased from a pre-Jan 19, 2019 owner. In other words, the bar to reserving Riviera and other future resorts applies to resale purchasers of the 14 existing resorts, if, and only if, the resale buyer purchased his interest from an owner that purchased on or after Jan 19, 2019. Thus all existing DVC owners, who purchased new or resale on or before Jan 19, 2019, can sell their interests, and the immediate resale purchasers will have the same rights to reserve all old and new resorts as the seller had.

 

[zavandor]

"2. Effective January 19, 2019, Club Members at all other DVC Resorts, including any future DVC Resorts, who purchase an ownership interest at any DVC Resort other than Riviera Resort, including at any future DVC Resort, from a third party other than directly from DVD, or other seller approved by DVD, may not convert the Vacation Points related to the Ownership Interest from the other DVC Resort to DVC Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes at Riviera Resort through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers who purchase an Ownership Interest at any DVC Resort, other than Riviera Resort, including any furture DVC Resorts, from a Club Member who owned the Ownership Interest prior to January 19, 2019, are excluded from the prohibition set forth in this paragraph 2.”

The sentence I have bolded says post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 12 resorts can reserve Riviera as long as they purchased from a pre-Jan 19, 2019 owner. In other words, the bar to reserving Riviera and other future resorts applies to resale purchasers of the 12 existing resorts, if, and only if, the resale buyer purchased his interest from an owner that purchased on or after Jan 19, 2019. Thus all existing DVC owners, who purchased new or resale on or before Jan 19, 2019, can sell their interests, and the immediate resale purchasers will have the same rights to reserve all old and new resorts as the seller had.

That's an astonishing surprise.
This means current contracts are even more valuable than direct add-ons. if you buy direct now at a L14 resort, if you resale the new buyer will be restricted. But if you buy a resale contract, then if you sell the new owner would have your same rights, meaning your contract will keep its value.
My wild guess is that they must do so because of how they are going to set up the exchange system with Riviera and the other new resorts. If they want transparent access to and from the new resorts for direct buyers like it is now (and not an exchnge system), they cannot remove any right to existing owners, including the right to sell their contracts with the same priviledges.
This is really a very long term strategy.

 

[Bearval]

That's an astonishing surprise.
This means current contracts are even more valuable than direct add-ons. if you buy direct now at a L14 resort, if you resale the new buyer will be restricted. But if you buy a resale contract, then if you sell the new owner would have your same rights, meaning your contract will keep its value.
My wild guess is that they must do so because of how they are going to set up the exchange system with Riviera and the other new resorts. If they want transparent access to and from the new resorts for direct buyers like it is now (and not an exchnge system), they cannot remove any right to existing owners, including the right to sell their contracts with the same priviledges.
This is really a very long term strategy.

As a corporation DVC lives forever ( unless they really screw things up example "Sears") and must make long term plans. We on the other hand don't live forever.

 

[skier_pete]

We were also informed that post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 12 resorts will be limited to reserving those 12 resorts. That one appears now to be only partly true. Focus is on Exhibit 6, paragraph 2, at the top of page two in the document, which is repeated near the bottom of page three:

"2. Effective January 19, 2019, Club Members at all other DVC Resorts, including any future DVC Resorts, who purchase an ownership interest at any DVC Resort other than Riviera Resort, including at any future DVC Resort, from a third party other than directly from DVD, or other seller approved by DVD, may not convert the Vacation Points related to the Ownership Interest from the other DVC Resort to DVC Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes at Riviera Resort through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers who purchase an Ownership Interest at any DVC Resort, other than Riviera Resort, including any furture DVC Resorts, from a Club Member who owned the Ownership Interest prior to January 19, 2019, are excluded from the prohibition set forth in this paragraph 2.”

The sentence I have bolded says post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 12 resorts can reserve Riviera as long as they purchased from a pre-Jan 19, 2019 owner. In other words, the bar to reserving Riviera and other future resorts applies to resale purchasers of the 12 existing resorts, if, and only if, the resale buyer purchased his interest from an owner that purchased on or after Jan 19, 2019. Thus all existing DVC owners, who purchased new or resale on or before Jan 19, 2019, can sell their interests, and the immediate resale purchasers will have the same rights to reserve all old and new resorts as the seller had.

I read that too, and was thinking the same thing - that if you buy from a owner that bought before 1/19/19, that contract retains rights. What's interest to me about this, though - is that if you buy the contract, you retain the rights, but if you then SELL the contract that you bought after 1/19/19, that contract then no longer retains the rights. It doesn't say the rights are kept in perpetuity. Basically it's a one-time transfer agreement.

Someone needs to contact the re-sellers or DVC to ensure that this is in fact what this means (pretty sure it does). My thought is that Disney doesn't want resale prices to crash to the ground - not that I think they would. However, it means that re-sellers will have to specify a contract is "pre 1/19/19" or "post 1/19/19" and therefore how it is eligible. It seems like over time this will result in two different price points for resale contracts at L14 resorts, one for a "full DVC" contract, and one for a "L14" contract.

 

[crvetter]

I am still reviewing to try to figure it out, but it appears there is a material difference in the document about resale purchasers from what we were told before. We were told all pre-Jan 19, 2019 owners will be able to reserve Riviera using their points; that is true according to the document. We were also told that future resale purchasers of Riviera and other future resorts will be limited to reserving their home resort. That is also true with provisions thrown in to allow DVD to modify that rule in the future, such as by allowing a future Riviera resale purchaser to have broader reservations rights for a fee.

We were also informed that post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 12 resorts will be limited to reserving those 12 resorts. That one appears now to be only partly true. Focus is on Exhibit 6, paragraph 2, at the top of page two in the document, which is repeated near the bottom of page three:

"2. Effective January 19, 2019, Club Members at all other DVC Resorts, including any future DVC Resorts, who purchase an ownership interest at any DVC Resort other than Riviera Resort, including at any future DVC Resort, from a third party other than directly from DVD, or other seller approved by DVD, may not convert the Vacation Points related to the Ownership Interest from the other DVC Resort to DVC Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes at Riviera Resort through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers who purchase an Ownership Interest at any DVC Resort, other than Riviera Resort, including any furture DVC Resorts, from a Club Member who owned the Ownership Interest prior to January 19, 2019, are excluded from the prohibition set forth in this paragraph 2.”

The sentence I have bolded says post-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchasers of the existing 12 resorts can reserve Riviera as long as they purchased from a pre-Jan 19, 2019 owner. In other words, the bar to reserving Riviera and other future resorts applies to resale purchasers of the 12 existing resorts, if, and only if, the resale buyer purchased his interest from an owner that purchased on or after Jan 19, 2019. Thus all existing DVC owners, who purchased new or resale on or before Jan 19, 2019, can sell their interests, and the immediate resale purchasers will have the same rights to reserve all old and new resorts as the seller had.

This is interesting. I guess I see two reasons for it 1) it was an error and they will amend it again or 2) it was a way to give all current owners resale value in their contract (sort of grandfathering in resale value).

It will definitely creat two classes for sure as other posters suggested. I hope it is true I wonder who we can ask for a quick reply to see if this is true. Anyone scheduled to talk to DVC soon?

Edit: I reread the paragraph those points owned prior to 1/19/19 when sold will only work at the classic 14 and Riviera. They won’t be valid at any other future DVC. My guess is since they marketed Riviera and it was so long in construction that they needed to include this. But it says they exempt from that paragraph only. And that paragraph specifically talks about Riviera only being restricted.

 

[skier_pete]

This is interesting. I guess I see two reasons for it 1) it was an error and they will amend it again or 2) it was a way to give all current owners resale value in their contract (sort of grandfathering in resale value).

It will definitely creat two classes for sure as other posters suggested. I hope it is true I wonder who we can ask for a quick reply to see if this is true. Anyone scheduled to talk to DVC soon?

I finally sent my e-mail to them yesterday, mostly since it took a while to craft it. If I get a reply I will be sure to ask about it, but I would guess someone else will get it ahead of that.

 

[crvetter]

I finally sent my e-mail to them yesterday, mostly since it took a while to craft it. If I get a reply I will be sure to ask about it, but I would guess someone else will get it ahead of that.

I just edited my post. It seems that pre 1/19/19 contracts would only work at Riviera (and classic 14) when resold for the first time. Not at all the future DVC resorts.

 

[drusba]

I just edited my post. It seems that pre 1/19/19 contracts would only work at Riviera (and classic 14) when resold for the first time. Not at all the future DVC resorts.

That appears correct since the revisions document does not deal with ability to reserve at future resorts other than Riviera, including because nothing has been filed with applicable government agency as to any resorts other than Riviera, but the sense of the document is that it is something that will continue when other resorts are added.

You mention the clause could itself be an error and we might get another amendment, which is also a possibility, unless you believe, like many, that DVC does not make major errors, including when doing annual point charts.