Would you be offended if your child's teacher gave them these?

[Mickey'snewestfan]

As someone who teaches that age, I'm not getting the bathroom thing. If you have a rule that laces stay tied and help kids who need help, then there are no trailing laces to get wet in the bathroom. If kids laces are trailing in the bathroom it's because you're allowing them to go in there with untied laces which is both a tripping hazard and sanitary one. The fact that you'd ask my child (well, not mine because he wasn't tying shoes in first grade) but a child to touch something you thought was too gross to touch is worse.

I think the curly laces are fine, I think that teaching your students how to tie is fine, and I think asking parents for velcro is fine, but if a child in your classroom has shoes they can't tie, then I think you have a responsibility to help them, keep them safe, and teach them the value of looking out for other people through modeling.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Can you also send a note home to the parents stressing the safety issues of untied laces and *strongly suggest* that their children either have velcro or the laces you have provided? If the kids just come home with the new laces that is one thing, but having a note to back it up to the parents about how you are concerned about the risk of injury and prefer these laces in the shoes may result in more cooperation from the parents.


I would get some shoes at a thrift store or some other cheap source and wash them well and put in some nice long cotton laces and have that available for the kids to learn and practice on.

And I do agree that if you are too grossed out to touch the laces, I certainly don't want my child touching them!

 

[torinsmom]

So, I guess I need to inspect everyone's shoes before they go to the bathroom? It's just not gonna happen, as my kids are going to the bathroom many times each day. We have a bathroom in our classroom, so they go when they need to go. In addition to the bathroom wetness factor, they also like to put their shoestrings in their mouth when they are on circle.(insert puking smilie here) I feel the need for hand sanitizer just thinking about it.

BTW, I don't check to make sure they wipe their bottoms either, although I have had parents ask me to do that as well. I don't button pants(please buy clothes that are not two sizes too small) or unbuckle or buckle belts or wipe the kids' runny noses or help them change their clothes when they make that puddle on the bathroom floor.

Marsha

 

[torinsmom]

Can you also send a note home to the parents stressing the safety issues of untied laces and *strongly suggest* that their children either have velcro or the laces you have provided? If the kids just come home with the new laces that is one thing, but having a note to back it up to the parents about how you are concerned about the risk of injury and prefer these laces in the shoes may result in more cooperation from the parents.


I would get some shoes at a thrift store or some other cheap source and wash them well and put in some nice long cotton laces and have that available for the kids to learn and practice on.

And I do agree that if you are too grossed out to touch the laces, I certainly don't want my child touching them!

We have a bow tying frame in our classroom for the kids to practice on, but it is not the same as tying a shoe on your own foot I guess.

Other children have a right to say no, but usually when they can tie, they want to show off the skill. We have a sink with soap in the room, so they can wash the germs off. If I have to take the time out to tie the shoe and wash my hands, I am taking about 3-4 minutes away from my instructional time for each shoe I tie. I already have enough disruptions without adding that one.

Marsha

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I would't be offended but I would not use them.
I do however find it rude that you don't want to touch a kid's laces but you will make another kid touch them? Really? You as a teacher can wash your hands whenever. The little ones cannot.
You skeeve but it's okay for everyone else's kid? Wow.

 

[daisyduck123]

I would't be offended but I would not use them.
I do however find it rude that you don't want to touch a kid's laces but you will make another kid touch them? Really? You as a teacher can wash your hands whenever. The little ones cannot.
You skeeve but it's okay for everyone else's kid? Wow.

We don't MAKE another student tie them. We tell them to go find another student who will tie them.

Perhaps we should just tell the kids not to share and do anything with one another?? Like share pencils?? Those are another thing that I TRY NOT to touch...the kids put those things everywhere, noses and mouths included.

Back to the shoelaces, students can always go wash their hands. I don't hold them back.

 

[CharityLynn]

I have a 1st grader and she can't wear velcro (well we didn't find anyt with a thick enough sole for her to wear since she has arch issues) I have no clue where to start with teaching her how to tie her shoes. I double knot them every morning but it is obvious most days they came undone and afriend tied them for her.

Any advice on teachng a child how to tie? Oh and she is a lefty and no one else in the house is, if that makes a difference.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

We don't MAKE another student tie them. We tell them to go find another student who will tie them.

Perhaps we should just tell the kids not to share and do anything with one another?? Like share pencils?? Those are another thing that I TRY NOT to touch...the kids put those things everywhere, noses and mouths included.

Back to the shoelaces, students can always go wash their hands. I don't hold them back.

I think that's nice having the kids help each other.

I remember thinking before I had kids that kids were gross. Then I had three of them, and between them and their classmates, I confirmed it.

 

[IDoDis]

Last year I had a student who had these and the tightness of the elastic made his shoes too tight which caused a blister to form on one foot. He could barely walk because of the blister, so I took the lace out. We had to cut the lace to get it out because of the tightness. I was worried that his mom would be upset, but I called her and explained what happened. Luckily she was not mad at all. He must have wide feet or something.

So, other than kids with wide feet, these would be great. My kids never liked them, but I see kids at school who do have them and like them. I would not be offended, but then my DD would have probably glued them as hair on a sock doll or something.

Oh, and when they get a little older, the "fashion" is not to tie their shoes. They just stuff the laces inside their shoes. Both my kids do that.

 

[bean]

I know that it can be really difficult dealing with basic needs while working with young children. As an SLP I was a co teacher in the 4s class for years. I think the issue is that the children are still at the age where they're learning to master these skills. They shouldn't be mastered by all of the children at this age. Many of the 5 year olds, yes. But the 4s? Not all. According to NAEYC, the AAP, and most gross and fine motor checklists that I've seen, 4 year olds should certainly not have mastered these skills. Dressing and undressing, yes. But buttoning and snapping? Not a mastered skills by 4s at this age. They should be learning to tie shoes but at 4 this shouldn't be mastered. I completely get the kindergarten and first grade teachers here. But I have to disagree that children are not being helped to tie shoes, snap pants, or change soiled clothing at 4.

 

[merryweather20]

I know that it can be really difficult dealing with basic needs while working with young children. As an SLP I was a co teacher in the 4s class for years. I think the issue is that the children are still at the age where they're learning to master these skills. They shouldn't be mastered by all of the children at this age. Many of the 5 year olds, yes. But the 4s? Not all. According to NAEYC, the AAP, and most gross and fine motor checklists that I've seen, 4 year olds should certainly not have mastered these skills. Dressing and undressing, yes. But buttoning and snapping? Not a mastered skills by 4s at this age. They should be learning to tie shoes but at 4 this shouldn't be mastered. I completely get the kindergarten and first grade teachers here. But I have to disagree that children are not being helped to tie shoes, snap pants, or change soiled clothing at 4.

I chalk it up to simple math. Its not possible for the teacher to tie 30 pairs of shoes, especially if she's snapping up 30 winter jackets. I think its just common sense to send your kids to school with clothes they can manage. I reember being that age and having to pick out velcro school shoes until I could tie

 

[funkychunkymonkey]

I chalk it up to simple math. Its not possible for the teacher to tie 30 pairs of shoes, especially if she's snapping up 30 winter jackets. I think its just common sense to send your kids to school with clothes they can manage. I reember being that age and having to pick out velcro school shoes until I could tie

YES!!! you so right! I work in a preschool and it can be very difficult to tie 5 kids shoes, put on 3 kids snow pants, help 4 zip jackets and put on mittens and not have any of the kids upset or hot while waiting. I wish more parents would send kids in clothes they could manage! On a related rant, I hate thumbs on mittens for kids under 4

 

[disfan07]

But I have to disagree that children are not being helped to tie shoes, snap pants, or change soiled clothing at 4.

where i worked, we had 3 adn 4 year olds who could button and snap their own pants and jackets.

Some could not but some could. But that beign said, most parents knew what their child could and could not do themselves adn they would send them appropriately dressed.

The most common ones we had were zips for dresses (in the back) and buttons on jeans

But by the end of the year, most of the kids could button and snap their own pants.

And changing soild clothes....our 3 adn 4 year olds pretty much did that themselves. We would wash out their underwear but they had to take off their own clothes, wipe themselves, adn put on new clothes themselves.


But....I do hear you about the shoelaces
I wish we could have made all of our kids wear those. I had a class of 15 3 year olds and OMG...I have never tied so many shoes in my life.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I wouldn't be offended, my friend who is a kindergarten teacher has the rule in her classroom to ask three before you ask me, that saves her from having to tie tons of shoes.

My child's K room has the "ask three, then me" rule. The teacher told us that she'll expect kids to come in with laced shoes in the spring, after the weather breaks. The peer pressure apparently works wonders in teaching those basic life skills.

As for parents who don't send kids to school in clothes they can manage... ugh. Just think, people.

 

[Cindy B]

I have a 1st grader and she can't wear velcro (well we didn't find anyt with a thick enough sole for her to wear since she has arch issues) I have no clue where to start with teaching her how to tie her shoes. I double knot them every morning but it is obvious most days they came undone and afriend tied them for her.

Any advice on teachng a child how to tie? Oh and she is a lefty and no one else in the house is, if that makes a difference.

Being a lefty does not make a difference. DH and I are both left handed and both of our kids aren't and they learned easily. It actually showed a different and easier perspective for both of them.

You can do the two "bunny ear" method--using two loops instead of the usual one loop wrap around method and it does get easier. You can probably find a youtube on it but it basically has the kids make two separate loops and bring them together-- it was easier for my kids to do this method first and then the usual one loop wrap around method.

We got and made models for our kids. We cut cardboard out printed a picture of a shoe on the cardboard (a top of the shoe pic which showed laces) and stuck some shoe laces in it. It was a practice model.

 

[torinsmom]

I know that it can be really difficult dealing with basic needs while working with young children. As an SLP I was a co teacher in the 4s class for years. I think the issue is that the children are still at the age where they're learning to master these skills. They shouldn't be mastered by all of the children at this age. Many of the 5 year olds, yes. But the 4s? Not all. According to NAEYC, the AAP, and most gross and fine motor checklists that I've seen, 4 year olds should certainly not have mastered these skills. Dressing and undressing, yes. But buttoning and snapping? Not a mastered skills by 4s at this age. They should be learning to tie shoes but at 4 this shouldn't be mastered. I completely get the kindergarten and first grade teachers here. But I have to disagree that children are not being helped to tie shoes, snap pants, or change soiled clothing at 4.

Our school is a public school, but the core program is Montessori. One of the most important aspects of Montessori is encouraging independence in the child. This means dressing the child in such a way that they can dress/undress themselves, sending lunch items that they can open themselves, and putting materials at their eye level. The bolded takes care of shoes, pants, belts and putting on jackets. Now, I WILL help a child put on a jacket when it's cold outside. I will teach them to do it, like parents should have already done by 4 years old.

We are not legally allowed to help children in the bathroom. In addition, I am not willing to put myself in the position of being alone with a child when they are not clothed(too many lawsuit crazy people these days) We do not have changing facilities and children must be trained to come to our school. We have a few pee accidents, but if children can dress and undress themselves, they will not need help, only a bag to put their wet clothing in. If they poop on their clothing, parents are called. If parents can't come or refuse to come, the guidance counselor will come and take care of it. More than 2-3 times of that and they will have to leave until they are trained.


To the PP asking about teaching a left hander to tie shoes. I have been taught to sit across from the child to teach the skill to a leftie. This way the motions are not backwards to them.

Marsha

 

[Kimberle]

No, not at all!

Our school sold these as a fund raiser. They were a BIG HIT for all the kids (5-5).

When my dd was little, I never expected her teachers to tie her shoes. I bought the velcro ones or used the bungy cord ones. If the teachers had to tie shoes, they'd never get to teach.

 

[golfgal]

As someone who teaches that age, I'm not getting the bathroom thing. If you have a rule that laces stay tied and help kids who need help, then there are no trailing laces to get wet in the bathroom. If kids laces are trailing in the bathroom it's because you're allowing them to go in there with untied laces which is both a tripping hazard and sanitary one. The fact that you'd ask my child (well, not mine because he wasn't tying shoes in first grade) but a child to touch something you thought was too gross to touch is worse.

I think the curly laces are fine, I think that teaching your students how to tie is fine, and I think asking parents for velcro is fine, but if a child in your classroom has shoes they can't tie, then I think you have a responsibility to help them, keep them safe, and teach them the value of looking out for other people through modeling.

Even if a child has their shoes tied at school doesn't mean they are tied all the time.

Sort of related: the kinderten teacher at our kids old school shared this story with us:

One day she ruffled the head of a boy in the class to find his hair wet-she asked why his hair was wet and the kid said so proudly "I finally did it"--apparently the little boys would have a contest in the urinal to see if they could get the spray while they are going to hit their head She vowed never to touch a kid's head again.

 

[golfgal]

I know that it can be really difficult dealing with basic needs while working with young children. As an SLP I was a co teacher in the 4s class for years. I think the issue is that the children are still at the age where they're learning to master these skills. They shouldn't be mastered by all of the children at this age. Many of the 5 year olds, yes. But the 4s? Not all. According to NAEYC, the AAP, and most gross and fine motor checklists that I've seen, 4 year olds should certainly not have mastered these skills. Dressing and undressing, yes. But buttoning and snapping? Not a mastered skills by 4s at this age. They should be learning to tie shoes but at 4 this shouldn't be mastered. I completely get the kindergarten and first grade teachers here. But I have to disagree that children are not being helped to tie shoes, snap pants, or change soiled clothing at 4.

Correct but then send your kid to school in clothing that they can manage. If your kid can't tie shoes, buy slip-ons or velcro. If your child can't snap his pants, buy elastic waist pants for school. It isn't rocket science and if you don't want to do this, then volunteer to go to school to help your child out with these tasks. Don't expect the teachers to teach them things that parents should be doing at home. There just aren't enough hours in the day, especially in a half day program. It takes long enough to get ONE kid ready to go out side, add 29 more kids to that and there goes your entire 2 hours of class time.

 

[happygirl]

So, I guess I need to inspect everyone's shoes before they go to the bathroom? It's just not gonna happen, as my kids are going to the bathroom many times each day. We have a bathroom in our classroom, so they go when they need to go. In addition to the bathroom wetness factor, they also like to put their shoestrings in their mouth when they are on circle.(insert puking smilie here) I feel the need for hand sanitizer just thinking about it.

BTW, I don't check to make sure they wipe their bottoms either, although I have had parents ask me to do that as well. I don't button pants(please buy clothes that are not two sizes too small) or unbuckle or buckle belts or wipe the kids' runny noses or help them change their clothes when they make that puddle on the bathroom floor.

Marsha

You do realize that not all kids master things at the same time. You do realize that kids shouldn't have to be made to feel embrassed because they can't tie there shoes or unbuckle there pants. DO you really think making a kid afraid to ask for help esp from a teacher of all people is going to help the child. Do you ask the other kids to unbutton the other kids pants. My daughter is in kindergarten her teacher is more then happy to help all the students she realizes they are still learning how to do things. Maybe you should teach the kids how to tie there shoes instead of trying to avoid the issues.