Wizzarding World of Harry Potter Phase 2 on the way.

[lockedoutlogic]

Can you tell me what is so innovative about Harry Potter? I mean didn't they actually re-purpose a coaster there and make the buildings so darn small that a group of 10 feels cramped?

nothing....you pretty much identified that one. I can't think dueling dragons will be that much different. and the merchandise is made in china just like the junk they sold before

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

and the merchandise is made in china just like the junk they sold before

Just like Disney.

 

[Jessfrogger88]

Forbidden Journey is amazing... the ride is fantastic... and just as good as anything that's ever been in the disney parks.

Much more innovative then Journey into the Seas with nemo and Friends or Monster's Inc Laugh Floor... or even Toy Story Mania which is fun, but lacks the imagination and immersive ride experience of like a Forbidden Journy, TOT, Spiderman, Splash Mountain, Men In Black etc.''


Disney is my fav, but denying that Universal is doing a terrific job is just being in denial. I want to see Disney do something new and unique... not retheming existing rides and introducing pixar characters.... I think the last monumental thing Disney has done has been Everest.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

.. I think the last monumental thing Disney has done has been Everest.

Even Everest wasn't very "monumental". USF already had a backwards coaster (Mummy) and the rest of the actual coaster isn't much more than a modern day Matterhorn. Note: i will agree that the theme of the Everest area is SPECTACULAR but the ride? Meh.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just like Disney.

indeed....numero uno on that list

 

[nytimez]

Even Everest wasn't very "monumental". USF already had a backwards coaster (Mummy) and the rest of the actual coaster isn't much more than a modern day Matterhorn. Note: i will agree that the theme of the Everest area is SPECTACULAR but the ride? Meh.

And the Mummy isn't stuck in Disco Mode.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And the Mummy isn't stuck in Disco Mode.

i'll admit...that was pretty funny

 

[gymnastgirlflips]

Forbidden Journey is amazing... the ride is fantastic... and just as good as anything that's ever been in the disney parks.

Much more innovative then Journey into the Seas with nemo and Friends or Monster's Inc Laugh Floor... or even Toy Story Mania which is fun, but lacks the imagination and immersive ride experience of like a Forbidden Journy, TOT, Spiderman, Splash Mountain, Men In Black etc.''


Disney is my fav, but denying that Universal is doing a terrific job is just being in denial. I want to see Disney do something new and unique... not retheming existing rides and introducing pixar characters.... I think the last monumental thing Disney has done has been Everest.

I agree with you about saying that Expedition Everest is the best move Disney has made with the parks recently. It was something new and they didn't have to put any Pixar characters whatsoever into the attraction. Cross your fingers that they'll fix the yeti though..

I've never been to Universal and am very biased if I were ever to be dragged onto their property, and I think that's horrible that some people are just as bad as me. As much as I love Harry Potter, I don't think I would go to Universal to see how great Hogsmeade is or the Forbidden Journey. I'll have to at least read articles about it though.

I think people will still love Harry Potter in decades to come. Wouldn't you say that kids today can identify who Pinnochio is even though he's over 70 years old and not usually a favorite character? Books are a different story unfortunately, especially such a long series (when I was little I didn't want to read it and was terrified of Voldemort being stuck on the back of Quirrel's head in the first movie), but hopefully kids will pick up the books and years from now everyone will still love Harry.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The harry potter staying power debate has been rehashed constantly for years now...

but i like to summarize my two cents this way:

staying power phenomena as we know it will no longer exist. that is because of the expansion and availability of mass media. as a kid, i had 15 stations, some non electronic toys, and my imagination to allow me to relive the star wars stories. the movies would premier 5-6 years or more on network tv after their release and generally couldn't be recorded...
The story and the franchise had to live on because we wanted it too. we became the stewards of the popularity and had nothing better to take its place.

now things can be replaced by literally millions of other options instantaneously by a click of a mouse, touch of a screen, or key of a remote...and that will never go away.

we've lost our powers of memory...because there is too much stuff in the window of the mind to windowshop anymore.

The lord of the rings was a perfect analogy offered above: 50 year old story...worldwide appeal...cutting across demographics more than any franchise since Star Wars (more than potter ever could hope too)...excellent quality to the screen product...innovative...memorable.

And its gone...and probably your average person on the street would have to jog their memory to even think about it.

Such is with potter...i have no doubt (though i'm sure i will get responses that will tell me i'm wrong) but i'll wait for the judgement of pop culture and history on this one. My hunch (opinion) is that the kids that grew up potter will find it more silly that nostalgic or timeless when they grow up and have their own kids...cause it really is.

the days of mickey mouse, star wars...and yes...even toy story might just be gone. we have too much to look at...and not enough dedication to remember it.

 

[rodkenrich]

,

 

[crocko]

Don't forget The Potter-y Barn in Citywalk.

lol.....nice

corny, but fun.



No mention of TSM? In my opinion, a very innovative attraction and one that has been a huge success for Disney.
As I think of Laugh Floor, Turtle Talk with Crush, TSM, I am excited about the potential of new attractions in the Disney future if they can keep taking technology further.

 

[skier_pete]

now things can be replaced by literally millions of other options instantaneously by a click of a mouse, touch of a screen, or key of a remote...and that will never go away.

we've lost our powers of memory...because there is too much stuff in the window of the mind to windowshop anymore.

Such is with potter...i have no doubt (though i'm sure i will get responses that will tell me i'm wrong) but i'll wait for the judgement of pop culture and history on this one. My hunch (opinion) is that the kids that grew up potter will find it more silly that nostalgic or timeless when they grow up and have their own kids...cause it really is.

the days of mickey mouse, star wars...and yes...even toy story might just be gone. we have too much to look at...and not enough dedication to remember it.

Facinating argument..and well put. I disagree in some ways...I think the problem with so much media isn't that staying power / the power of memory is gone. It's more the fracturing of popularity. There are so many things out there to be interested in, that the portion of the fan base that is interested in it becomes smaller. So, using your example of Lord Of The Rings...there are people out there that are still very much into it, it's just a small portion of people.

For these POP culture touchstones to stay powerfully relivant over a long period of time takes two things in my view: nostalgia and new content. Part of the reason that something like Star Wars has stayed around so much is it has both. The parents generation that was into Star Wars when they were children, and a continued new stream of toys, video games, TV shows. So, the nostalgia fuels it enough, even though this older generation doesn't care for the new content as much, we like Star Wars, and like seeing our kids liking Star Wars. The new content is what actually hooks the kids.

Another example of this is Star Trek, though the intial popularity surge was odd, once it was popular, it stayed with new media with movies, novels, then several TV shows. The TV shows dropped in quality and went off the air, and Star Trek became irrelavant. Then, someone comes along and re-boots the movie franchise with a pretty good movie, and suddenly Star Trek is back within the pop culture - thanks to both nostalgia and new content.

This is also why Disney whips Universal hands down - not necessarily in the quality of their new rides, but in their ability to work these two things hand in hand. Disney has so much content available, that they have the nostalgia going for just about any parent, whether its Princesses, Star Wars, Muppets, whatever. And many of these things they continue to put out new content...which keeps it relevant. You get to share your past with your children, while at the same time they get something new.

It's part of why Toy Story 3 blew up so big...it's old enough now (at 15 years) to actually have the nostalgia factor going for it.

One of the most genius things Disney has done in the last 5 years is Mickey Mouse Club House. They discovered that by skewing the characters younger than they were originally intended, they can generate popular new content. Nostalgia + new content = Mickey and the gang are more popular than they've been in 30 years.

So, getting back to Universal: Universal's theme parks have a lot of great product, but much of it is missing one or both of the components. First of all, a lot of stuff there skews too old for the nostalgia factor. A movie you see when your 18 doesn't grab you that way. But even the stuff that does (say Jaws or maybe Jurrasic Park) - there is no new content. A problem even with Suess Landing, which has nostalgia in spades. Probably the only thing they got going that has both is the Marvel Island (which leads them to revenue sharing with Disney).

So, what of Harry Potter's staying power? Well, let's say this, of all the things that Universal owns, this is the most likely thing to give them that. There's a generation here that was raised with Harry Potter, and though they are not old enough yet to pass it onto their kids, they will be soon enough. (If we say that the HP phenomenon started around 2002 in the US, then the oldest kids that were into it then are likely in their early twenties.) BUT, the great problem here is new content. Jo Rowling is keeping the HP Universe very much to herself. (Rumors of new books have surfaced, but have never actually been acclaimed by Rowling herself.) Once these last two HP movies come out, new content comes to a likely end. And THIS may end up being what starts to sink the HP popularity. Something more relavent and fresh will come along. Yeah, it'll stick around, but might lose its immense popularity.

That said, I have no doubt that Universal should expand Harry Potter land. Probably the best investment in their parks they could make. Surely better that Rip, Ride, Rocket. Did a single tourist decide to go to Universal for THAT?

 

[Galen_50]

I think one of the reasons that things like Star Wars and such are not as big as when they first come out is suspense. Harry Potter is like this. When the books were coming out, each one ended with you want the next one to know what happens next. There was always losts of discussion and speculation on what was going to happen next. Now someone new to the series can read all the books right in row, or worse yet, watch the movies. There is none of the magic of waiting for the next installment wondering what was going to happen next. Like in Star Wars at the end of Empire Strikes Back, who, that saw it originally in the theater, wasn't pumped watching the Falcone fly away to go and rescue Han. We waited years making up our own stories about how he was rescued. Now all you have to do is pop in the next DVD.

I love the Harry Potter books. I have read them all multiple times and own all the movies. But I am not as excited as I use to be for the new movie coming out. Part because I know what happens, and part because I am very disappointed about Warner Brothers milking the cow and spliting it into two movies. I know what is going to happen, but I am still going to see them.

Now, don't take it that I hate the park. I would love the chance to go there, but with young ones we spend our time at Disney when we are down there. I have a 2 and 6 year old. My 6 has seen the Harry Potter movies, but has no interest right now in going to the Harry Potter land. My home park is Cedar Point, so I look forward to trying the rides there.

As for the Pinnochio example above, I think kids can identify him even though he isn't a favorite because he is a cartoon. He is a charater in a cartoon movie that I as a parent can show my young children over and over again from a very young age. Harry Potter is more for older kids and as time goes on, there are going to be more and more things for older children attention. A good example of this is High School Musical. When it came out it was one of the biggest things out. But do you think my child will care 5 years from now when he is the right age. Alot of what that age group likes is based on peers and what is the hot current thing. Look at Twilight. As big as Harry Potter, but will it last five or ten years after the last movie?

I guess the main point is right now, none of us know. We will have to come back and have this discussion in six years.

 

[nytimez]

No mention of TSM? In my opinion, a very innovative attraction and one that has been a huge success for Disney.
As I think of Laugh Floor, Turtle Talk with Crush, TSM, I am excited about the potential of new attractions in the Disney future if they can keep taking technology further.

I don't think TSM is especially innovative. Creative, but not innovative. It's Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin on steroids. Laugh Floor doesn't do it for me either.

Turtle Talk, however, is very innovative -- it's a fantastic use of technology, and one of those attractions that will blow nearly anyone away the first time they see it.

But it's hard to compare it to Harry Potter, because they're two very different types of attractions.

 

[crocko]

TSM is more than just a better version of Buzz Lightyear.

BLSRS is a shooting arcade game in which you move.

TSM takes it a big step further by adding the virtual level to it, which seemingly has made it somewhat easy for Disney to update the ride.


I can tell that you and I do not have the same enjoyment factors when it comes to Disney attractions.

 

[Figment632]

TSM is more than just a better version of Buzz Lightyear.

BLSRS is a shooting arcade game in which you move.

TSM takes it a big step further by adding the virtual level to it, which seemingly has made it somewhat easy for Disney to update the ride.


I can tell that you and I do not have the same enjoyment factors when it comes to Disney attractions.

IMO TSM is less then SRS you are stationary while shooting.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So, getting back to Universal: Universal's theme parks have a lot of great product, but much of it is missing one or both of the components. First of all, a lot of stuff there skews too old for the nostalgia factor. A movie you see when your 18 doesn't grab you that way. But even the stuff that does (say Jaws or maybe Jurrasic Park) - there is no new content. A problem even with Suess Landing, which has nostalgia in spades. Probably the only thing they got going that has both is the Marvel Island (which leads them to revenue sharing with Disney).

So, what of Harry Potter's staying power? Well, let's say this, of all the things that Universal owns, this is the most likely thing to give them that. There's a generation here that was raised with Harry Potter, and though they are not old enough yet to pass it onto their kids, they will be soon enough. (If we say that the HP phenomenon started around 2002 in the US, then the oldest kids that were into it then are likely in their early twenties.) BUT, the great problem here is new content. Jo Rowling is keeping the HP Universe very much to herself. (Rumors of new books have surfaced, but have never actually been acclaimed by Rowling herself.) Once these last two HP movies come out, new content comes to a likely end. And THIS may end up being what starts to sink the HP popularity. Something more relavent and fresh will come along. Yeah, it'll stick around, but might lose its immense popularity.

I agree with your take on things...but i just wanted to comment on this one point

Losing its popularity is inevitable...one way or another.

Did anyone believe that Harry Potter was really "going away"? I didn't for a second. she'll milk this thing for decades...and while new content might keep it mainstream..its popularity will decrease steadily over time.

And we have the perfect template to predict how it will go:

George Lucas *******ized (sorry...but no word fits it better) his star wars franchise by lowering its complexity to the least common denominator and attempted to flood the entire market to make bucks

I hear all the time "Star Wars is bigger than ever - look how much money they make now"

Yeah...but any of us that are old enough to objectively look at it know that it isn't the same.
I am on the younger end of the star wars generation...and we kept that sucker going with no new content and not even toys on the shelf after 1984. nothing new for 15 years...and it was still a living, breathing thing.

But its not the same now...no matter what the ledger says.

My guess is that Potter will follow the path...they'll milk it and try to rejuice it every few years...but it won't be the same.

And i'm sorry...preteen novels (and i've read some of them and they are NOT for adults...they're imaginative by dumbed down) and movies are not Star Wars...no way are they as meaningful...for alot of the cultural reasons i've commented on above an before.

My opinion...don't shoot the messenger


i also agree with your comment about Mickey Mouse Clubhouse...it was a brilliant move. But i'm sorry...i watch that with my son and it is the DUMBEST preschool show i've ever seen. it does nothing to educate and has one ridiculous story thrown out with random things after another. It is ridiculously bad

 

[skier_pete]

she'll milk this thing for decades...and while new content might keep it mainstream..its popularity will decrease steadily over time.

And we have the perfect template to predict how it will go:

George Lucas *******ized (sorry...but no word fits it better) his star wars franchise by lowering its complexity to the least common denominator and attempted to flood the entire market to make bucks

Well, George Lucas has been milking that cash cow for a lot longer than the franchise was actually quality. I recently watched the Original trilogy with my daughter. Even these "classic" movies really aren't that great. The dialog and acting were frequently bad, and a lot of the action sequences weren't really very impressive, just held up against the frame of what had come before they were. I will say in retrospect that "Empire" was an extremely bold move at the time...to take a movie and put the biggest action sequence in the front, have the good guys spend most of the movie getting the c**p kicked out of them, and then have the movie without any sort of ending took a lot of guts, especially at the time. (Much more common to do this now...see Harry Potter 7A & B).

My opinion...don't shoot the messenger

I would never do that.

i also agree with your comment about Mickey Mouse Clubhouse...it was a brilliant move. But i'm sorry...i watch that with my son and it is the DUMBEST preschool show i've ever seen. it does nothing to educate and has one ridiculous story thrown out with random things after another. It is ridiculously bad

Disagree with it being the dumbest I've ever seen - there's some pretty awful stuff out there, even on playhouse disney. But it certainly isn't very educational beyond basic counting and colors, but essential took the Dora The Explorer format and copied it with the characters...so not even innovative in structure...but again to take these 60 year old characters and make them relevant to children again is no small feat. I bought some old Disney short movies to show my DD, show she's aware of these. (Some the early 30's and 40's Disney short stuff is just brilliant, it's too bad that Disney isn't more successful at keeping that in the collective consiousness).

 

[crocko]

In my opinion,

the most educational kids show that I have watched with my kids is Blue's Clues.

 

[TisBit]

OK, I have tried to stay out of this fray, but here goes. First, I haven't been to WWoHP and don't really plan on going. While it would be neat to see, honestly the Universal Parks were a huge disappointment to me (but I remembered enjoying Universal Hollywood in the 90's). Most of the attractions have never updated or really been theme'd like they could have done. Honestly, having attractions based on 70's movies shows a lack of originality in their design concept. As far as Islands of Adventure, it was better and had some bigger rides/coaster, but it wasn't a whole day park for me or the young adults we took (half the group went to the movies and the other half went back for a nap). With that being said, I don't see wasting a day at Universal just to ride the re-themed rides...maybe one day some friends will want to go while we are there and I will go, but until then I don't have any plans.

As for the news that WWoHP has been paid for and phase 2 is on the way, I haven't seen anything to support either of these items. First, as pointed out, how do they say it is paid for...is it increased revenue based off attendance figures of years past, or are they just saying enough people came through the gates (which many would have anyway). Second, Universal would make a huge mistake rolling out a phase 2 so soon. The business approach would allow the simmer of Phase 1 to settle down and about when attendance begins to decrease you roll out phase 2 to bring people back in, that have already visited phase 1.