WIRED article: Disney's $1 Billion Bet on a Magical Wristband

[Mad Hattered]

Yes. And it ended with a grammatically deficient sentence that doesn't make any sense. It seems to suggest that rain alters the number of FPs that people have pre-booked. But since the weather cannot be predicted in advance, and FPs are booked in advance, this makes no sense whatsoever. So surely you don't mean to suggest that on a rainy day in July one can walk up to a kiosk and get a FP for Soarin' with a 10:00 a.m. return time. And since you cannot possibly intend to suggest that, I am at a loss to figure out what you are trying to convey.

She is probably saying that considering she went just went when the crowd level was at 2 - 4. It won't and hasn't been like that during the busy times of the year (July). So I will answer for her....no, you can't!

 

[jade1]

Sure. You could. But if you have a FP booked for Soarin', then perforce, you do not have one for Test Track. So while you are revelling in the glory of your spontaneity at Spaceship Earth, the Standby Line at Test Track is quickly building to 70 minutes. In reality, most people, (pre-planners or spur-of-the-moment folks) are going to make a beeline for TT when they walk into Epcot first thing in the morning, and the notion of spontaneity goes out the window. Having a single FP+ for a tiered attraction doesn't make most people spontaneous. To the contrary. It almost dictates what their first move of the day will be. This is not to say that some people won't jump in the Spaceship Earth line as they walk in the park. But if they wait 5 minutes there and 70 minutes for Test Track, they will spend more time in line than the person who heads straight to TT and waits 15 minutes there, and later waits 20 minutes for Spaceship Earth.

But there is a bigger picture to spontaneity that gets lost here. Most of the discussion centers on the "micro". But there is a "macro" to spontaneity. Do a quick search for threads asking for advice as to which park is the best one to visit when it rains. In reading those threads, you will note two constant themes. First, locals and people with experience will tell you that advance forecasts cannot be trusted. You have to wait until you are there to figure out what the weather will be. In other words, advanced planning won't help you here. The second thing you will see over and over again is that people have their own ideas as to which park is best. The whole reason people ask the question in the first place is to get good ideas where to go if their day is going to be a rainy one. But does any of that matter if you locked in your FPs for the day? Personally, I prefer Epcot as my rainy day park. By a wide margin. But if I arrive only to find that my one and only day of persistent rain is the day that I booked the MK (where BTMRR won't be much fun in a driving rain, nor would 7DMT, nor would Astro Orbiter, nor would watching the parade, etc., etc.), what do I do? Do I spontaneously decide at 7:00 a.m. to head to Epcot where the FPs for the headliners are all distributed? Before FP+, this was an easy "on the fly" change to make. "Honey! Ginger Zee says it's going to rain all day in Orlando. We should go to Epcot today instead of the Magic Kingdom." Boom. Done. It is a lot more cumbersome now, and there is really no argument to the contrary.

Who said anything about July-I have not gone then in years. But there may be availability then-I don't know.

All I was "showing" you was there was availability for both Soarin and TT inside the park. That was on a perfect weather day in March-rain would make even more availability IMO, and shorter SB as well.

SO IS THERE AN ARGUMENT TO THE CONTRARY TO YOUR 'searching for a crack" SCENARIO?

 

[jade1]

She is probably saying that considering she went just went when the crowd level was at 2 - 4. It won't and hasn't been like that during the busy times of the year (July). So I will answer for her....no, you can't!

Ahh but did anybody ever say that there would be both available on a perfect day in March-I doubt that one will get dug up from the past.

 

[jade1]

The highlighted verbless sentence is supposed to be comforting to people who go to DHS on a rainy day?

2 totally different discussions.

 

[mcd2745]

Those who say that MDE/FP+ reduces spontaneity, I think there is an obvious truth to that. Those who say that FP+ results in less FPs per day for those who knew how to work legacy FP, there is obvious truth to that. Being a DLR vet I am still astounded about the need at WDW to chose your park months in advance in order to get the ADRs you want.

For those who do not do ADRs then, yes, FP+ is tying you to a park with a loss of spontaneity. But if like many folks on this forum you do make ADRs, then you are already tied to a park at the 60 or 30 day point. The additional loss of spontaneity for FP+ at that point is not that much.

But as I posted in earlier in this thread, I am starting to see how the drive towards RD and legacy FP collecting (while yes, it was flexible in principle) it still had an inflexible element that drove you to get up early and get to the parks to get those FPs. In that way MDE/FP+ can result in more spontaneity. As in you can decide at the last minute to sleep in one day and/or have a late breakfast where before you did not feel you had that choice and had to get to the parks.

Before anyone jumps on me I am not saying that MDE/FP+ is more spontaneous than legacy FP. I am saying that there was some hidden inflexibility in the old system that many of us had gotten accustomed to. In some ways I can see how FP+ can help here. But as others have pointed out again and again, it does depend on how one personally tours and how much they like or dislike planning in advance.

Great post. Very level-headed and considers both sides of the argument. I bolded the part about ADRs because I've been making the same point whenever I do jump into these FP+ discussions (I've tried to avoid them for the most part). However, for so many here who do make ADRs, they're not tied to a park at 30 or 60 days as you said....they're tied to a park at 180 days! So you're absolutely right, at that point, locking in 3 FP+ 120 days later at the 60-day mark, really is not that big of a deal - unless you're one of those people who are only looking to ride a particular attraction or two over and over and not do much else.

 

[jade1]

I am also finding I quite like things like going to AK for a day, eating at Boma and then heading to DHS for Fantasmic - and knowing with certainty I can ride RnR and ToT before the show with my FP+. That's cool.

An awesome day-not possible until FP+ during busier weeks anyway.

The highlighted verbless sentence is supposed to be comforting to people who go to DHS on a rainy day?

Nothing to do with rainy days. Ha my bad sorry.

 

[jade1]

Meant 138-a popular rain park-much more indoor offerings than EPCOT.

Or just grab them from the night before;

Certainly the night before you would know if its going to be an all day rain, and we got these "indoor" attractions the night before on XMAS eve:

 

[HydroGuy]

I am going to spontaneously post about spontaneity. Again.

See my PP, but I agree that FP+ lacks spontaneity in many ways.

However (and reading the WIRED article in the OP really got me thinking), legacy FP was supposedly the more spontaneous option. Even so, there were so many times I got a legacy FP and missed my window because of something else "spontaneous" (someone got too tired, it started to rain hard, we decided to not come back in the evening after an afternoon break, the sit down meal took too long). It is great that the legacy FP was spontaneously obtained the day of, but then I was locked into that return window (once windows began to be enforced).

With FP+ I at least have the chance to get a FP later in the day for that ride. Or change it to something else on the spot. That increases flexibility and, really, spontaneity.

I am trying to think here of the hidden inflexibleness (and low or sometimes zero spontaneity) in the old system that many of us do not see that way because we were so accustomed to it. But if we stop and think about it we can see it was there along.

Food for thought!

 

[mhconley]

That article is amazing... I love technology and magic bands are state of the art. Sounds like there are some really cool enhancements coming.

I'm not going to jump into the middle of the whole other debate going on in this thread but I can see the article's point. I am one who believes FP+ adds to the spontaneity. I may not be able to decide which park I want to go to that day but that was taken away many years ago by the ADR system. FP+ does let me relax when I get to the park and do what I want to do rather than run around like a crazy person trying to collect FP based upon what it looks like today.

I'd love to see a percentage of people that use ADRs and FP+ booked before they arrive on-site. I would bet it is well under 50%. It never ceased to amaze me how many people used to believe that FP was something you had to buy to use. I'll bet a lot of people get their magic bands at home before their trip and wonder what the heck they are...

Martin

 

[Angel Ariel]

I may not be able to decide which park I want to go to that day but that was taken away many years agoby the ADR system.

I would respectfully disagree here. I did not feel locked in by ADRs until the new CC cancellation fees, which have not been in place for very long. Previous to that policy, if I had an ADR and decided to hop at a different park or use a fp instead, I could call and cancel the ADR with no penalty and just get CS instead. now that there is a penalty attached to.cancelling, I agree it is locking you in more - but that is due to the cancellation fee, imo.

 

[mcd2745]

I would respectfully disagree here. I did not feel locked in by ADRs until the new CC cancellation fees, which have not been in place for very long. Previous to that policy, if I had an ADR and decided to hop at a different park or use a fp instead, I could call and cancel the ADR with no penalty and just get CS instead. now that there is a penalty attached to.cancelling, I agree it is locking you in more - but that is due to the cancellation fee, imo.

The CC guarantee/cancellation fees have been in place for a few years now, well before FP+. What you said about prior to that, however, is probably a big part of why we have that policy now. Too many people made ADRs but felt no real committment to them. And while you may have always cancelled any ADRs you ultimately weren't going to follow through with, far too many did not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Great post. Very level-headed and considers both sides of the argument. I bolded the part about ADRs because I've been making the same point whenever I do jump into these FP+ discussions (I've tried to avoid them for the most part). However, for so many here who do make ADRs, they're not tied to a park at 30 or 60 days as you said....they're tied to a park at 180 days! So you're absolutely right, at that point, locking in 3 FP+ 120 days later at the 60-day mark, really is not that big of a deal - unless you're one of those people who are only looking to ride a particular attraction or two over and over and not do much else.

I just wanted to comment on this.

SOME ADR's require a longer lock in lead time up to 180 days. (Looking at BOG dinner here.)

But that is not true of all resorts. It may well be true for extremely busy time frames or occasions as perhaps Thanksgiving day or Christmas Day.

It is true that same day is more of a challenge. And thus the flexibility that seems to be a highlight at DLR with walk ups is almost non-existent at WDW. But as for a "need" to commit to an entire theme park at 180 days as a general rule for any ADR, our family has not found this to be the case with the one exception of CRT back when it was more difficult to obtain. But it was because we were committing for a birthday and that is what the birthday girl wanted. To ensure our chances, we booked extremely early.

I admit when we got a BOG ADR within 60 days of travel for 6 was pure luck. But otherwise, we have great luck deciding much closer to a visit where we wish to eat. So I don't see the hype of any "need" to commit at 180 days and being "tied" to that choice. There is still some flexibility for delayed decisions to be made or for minds to change.
(*certainly not in the way that seems to be known at DLR*)

I do otherwise agree that Hydro's post was well written for a FP+ perspective .

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would respectfully disagree here. I did not feel locked in by ADRs until the new CC cancellation fees, which have not been in place for very long. Previous to that policy, if I had an ADR and decided to hop at a different park or use a fp instead, I could call and cancel the ADR with no penalty and just get CS instead. now that there is a penalty attached to.cancelling, I agree it is locking you in more - but that is due to the cancellation fee, imo.

And it needs to be reminded that too many guests did not have the consideration to cancel as you did. So those bad apples spoiled it for others.

Thankfully, we can still cancel the night before. So not the same as a same day cancellation,but it is not a firm 24 hours.

 

[OKW Lover]

I am going to spontaneously post about spontaneity. Again.

See my PP, but I agree that FP+ lacks spontaneity in many ways.

However (and reading the WIRED article in the OP really got me thinking), legacy FP was supposedly the more spontaneous option. Even so, there were so many times I got a legacy FP and missed my window because of something else "spontaneous" (someone got too tired, it started to rain hard, we decided to not come back in the evening after an afternoon break, the sit down meal took too long). It is great that the legacy FP was spontaneously obtained the day of, but then I was locked into that return window (once windows began to be enforced).

With FP+ I at least have the chance to get a FP later in the day for that ride. Or change it to something else on the spot. That increases flexibility and, really, spontaneity.

I am trying to think here of the hidden inflexibleness (and low or sometimes zero spontaneity) in the old system that many of us do not see that way because we were so accustomed to it. But if we stop and think about it we can see it was there along.

Food for thought!

Good take on the whole thing HydroGuy. (oh, and thanks for the great work you do over on the DL board for us WDW'er visitors)

Just to take this a bit further, it seems like everybody in this thread has focused on FP+ when commenting about spontaneity. The other thing that the MDE/MB/FP+ mashup has done is take care of some housekeeping-type things that guests no longer need to track. Their tickets are in one place. Their room key is handy. If they take DME from the airport, they don't need a separate voucher. Gift shop purchases are just a tap of the wrist. All this leaves the guest free to do other things as they happen upon them.

 

[mcd2745]

I just wanted to comment on this.

SOME ADR's require a longer lock in lead time up to 180 days. (Looking at BOG dinner here.)

But that is not true of all resorts. It may well be true for extremely busy time frames or occasions as perhaps Thanksgiving day or Christmas Day.

It is true that same day is more of a challenge. And thus the flexibility that seems to be a highlight at DLR with walk ups is almost non-existent at WDW. But as for a "need" to commit to an entire theme park at 180 days as a general rule for any ADR, our family has not found this to be the case with the one exception of CRT back when it was more difficult to obtain. But it was because we were committing for a birthday and that is what the birthday girl wanted. To ensure our chances, we booked extremely early.

I admit when we got a BOG ADR within 60 days of travel for 6 was pure luck. But otherwise, we have great luck deciding much closer to a visit where we wish to eat. So I don't see the hype of any "need" to commit at 180 days and being "tied" to that choice. There is still some flexibility for delayed decisions to be made or for minds to change.
(*certainly not in the way that seems to be known at DLR*)

I do otherwise agree that Hydro's post was well written for a FP+ perspective .

Agreed, not every restaurant needs to be reserved at 180 days like BOG (which we actually have no interest in) does. However, so many of us here on these boards automatically go in at the 180-day mark and make all our ADRs. Are those plans completely etched in stone? Of course not. Adjustments can be made, but that's really only making more work for yourself, if you keep changing plans.

 

[Shaden]

Here's the designated runner I'm talking about and this is just one of dozens upon dozens of old threads discussing it:

"Imagine the absolute fastest a human being can walk without running, and then add a little more speed, and you're there."

"I love being the FP runner! I swerve, duck, and weave through the parks at my own speed ..."

http://www.disboards.com/threads/and-the-torch-is-passed-im-the-fastpass-runner.2732607/

And yes in the same thread there at lots of people who clearly aren't running, they are in fact talking about how people have to wait for them to arrive at the next attraction.

And there are (in that very thread) the posts like

We 'run' (walk...) for fastpasses as a family.

 

[cakebaker]

And yes in the same thread there at lots of people who clearly aren't running, they are in fact talking about how people have to wait for them to arrive at the next attraction.

And there are (in that very thread) the posts like

As I said, there are literally dozens of threads and it was used by many as the best way to optimize paper FP. I never said everyone used it, but I'm quite sure if I looked I'd find a few of the regulars here that were fans of rushing to the fp+ machines. It was very, very common.

 

[Shaden]

As I said, there are literally dozens of threads and it was used by many as the best way to optimize paper FP. I never said everyone used it, but I'm quite sure if I looked I'd find a few of the regulars here that were fans of rushing to the fp+ machines. It was very, very common.

Just because people did things didn't mean they had to, it was not required under the legacy FP system. You only chose to lift a couple lines from that thread, though the majority of it doesn't seem to support what you were trying to use that thread as evidence of. Not that I disagree there were people who used to quite literally RUN. I am quite sure there were, and I am quite sure you could find more evidence of that. But again, doesn't mean it was necessary or SOP. Which was your claim, that it was "sop". So don't go breaking this down to "it happened" that's now what you claimed, you claimed it was SOP.

Of course the irony I love is seeing many people post about how they "needed to run" for FP- or that they "Had to" RD with FP- .... and then they or others post in another thread, heck sometimes the same thread that FP+ is great, all you need to do is RD to get as much done as you used to with FP- and have a runner who can pop over to the kiosks and book your 4th 5th and beyond.

 

[SeilerBird]

This is a really silly thread. I go to WDW to have fun, not to be spontaneous.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The CC guarantee/cancellation fees have been in place for a few years now, well before FP+.

We did not have the cancellation fees on either of our 2013 trips. I just looked up the information and the resort-wide ADR cancellation fee policy did not go into effect until Oct 31st 2013. So it has only been in place for a year and a half. That is also right in the midst of the FP+ testing, so not "well before FP+" either.