Will this Washington Post Article Affect Your Planning?

[aretha30]

No, this article won't affect our plans now or in the future. We are middle class and we know how to go to Disney and not spend insane amounts of money! This article makes it sound as if there are no other options except the overpriced steak and dessert party. We set a budget and stick to it, it can be done! We splurge and certain things such as the dessert party but we stay in a value resort so we can have a longer stay and do extras.

As other people have said we've looked into other vacations and they are just as expensive after food, hotel, and entertainment factors as going to Disney every year.

 

[Barnabe]

According to the NY times the Middle Class is defined as having a household income of between $35,000- $100,000. I'm not saying that this is the most accurate source, but according to their charts, my family is part of the upper income bracket. However, I do see my family as middle class.

I'm just wondering how many people on these boards are really members of the middle class. Is Disney pricing the parks out of reach for people with a annual household income between $35,000- $100,000?

 

[ArwenMarie]

According to the NY times the Middle Class is defined as having a household income of between $35,000- $100,000. I'm not saying that this is the most accurate source, but according to their charts, my family is part of the upper income bracket. However, I do see my family as middle class.

I'm just wondering how many people on these boards are really members of the middle class. Is Disney pricing the parks out of reach for people with a annual household income between $35,000- $100,000?

I'm not sure but I think a big factor for many families is the airfare versus being able to easily drive to a local destination. That could be part of what takes it from an affordable vacation to a very expensive vacation.

 

[Jennytoon]

According to the NY times the Middle Class is defined as having a household income of between $35,000- $100,000. I'm not saying that this is the most accurate source, but according to their charts, my family is part of the upper income bracket. However, I do see my family as middle class.

I'm just wondering how many people on these boards are really members of the middle class. Is Disney pricing the parks out of reach for people with a annual household income between $35,000- $100,000?

I don't think you can truly get a good answer to this question. That is, you can get an answer to how many people are middle class but not based on an income range. Cost of Living varies widely, and household can mean anything from 1 to [insert number here] people. So do expenses vary.

As an example, I live in the Boston area. We have no family close by, we have three kids and we both have jobs. For 6 out of the past 14 years, we paid $35,000 per year for childcare. Yes, you read that number right. So, according to the range you cited we would have had to be way out of the upper end of your middle class bracket in order to have that much left over for childcare after taxes, food, and housing, but I'll tell you that we are solidly upper middle class in lifestyle and it's not because we're packing away tons of money into the bank and just not spending it.

 

[kandb]

Even though I am not crazy about the rising Disney prices for tickets/resorts, I think in a way, it is good. Let me explain. If the tickets and resort prices were cut in half, I would never go to the parks because there would probably be twice as many people there. I think the parks are crowded as it is and if the prices were cheaper, they would be even more crowded.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

Disney's pricing is a completely natural result of increasing demand for a limited resource. Only a certain number of people can be in any Disney park at one time. Only a certain number of people can stay at any Disney resort on any one night. With such extreme demand that exists now, where Disney parks fill up on certain days, many queues exceed 60 minute waits, Disney resorts are at 90% capacity, and many restaurants book up even prior to the 180 day mark, there has to be a way to determine who gets in and who doesn't. In our economy, price is the best and most fair way to do that. People complain about crowds at Disney all the time. Imagine what would happen if the Contemporary Resort cost $150 a night and park tickets cost $50. Parks and resorts might be at capacity year round. We would be up at midnight 499 days in advance to call Disney to book our deluxe resort. I can hear the complaints now.

All of our friends are middle class (some lower middle, some middle-middle, some upper middle) and every one of them finds a way to go to Disney at least once every couple of years. As of now, the middle class has not been priced out, and increases of $10-20 every year for a one day ticket probably won't price them out any time soon.

The article to me seems like yet another attempt to separate Americans by class and to create an us-against-them mentality (rich vs. poor) that divides and hurts the country.

 

[larryz]

According to the NY times the Middle Class is defined as having a household income of between $35,000- $100,000.

WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION BEING EXPRESSED BELOW...

I don't think you can really define middle class by income. It's more of a standard of living. 100K in NYC is going to be hard-pressed to consider as middle class, while 60K in rural Mississippi is more than enough.



I'd say middle class is a family that:
1) has at least one full-time job in the household
2) makes enough to meet basic household expenses
3) is able to sustain children in the household in public school
4) is thriving on their diet of choice
5) has at least one vehicle newer than 5 years old
6) has at least one bedroom per member of the household
7) has enough disposable income to eat out once per week
8) has enough disposable income to take a major vacation at least every other year
9) is buying or renting a single-family (or multi-family by choice) dwelling large enough and safe enough to securely live without fear of dispossession, predation, or deprivation

 

[kandb]

I don't think you can define "middle class" as salary due to the fact that is more expensive to live in different parts of the country. We live in northern NJ where a small house goes for $400K and the taxes are around $12K a year, so making $100K is not a lot. If we lived in Idaho, $100K
would be much easier to live on. Also, my husband travels to NYC for work and pays $30/day in tolls. Our combined salary is $240K/year and we
are not rich by any means.

 

[ArwenMarie]

This is an interesting info graphic...You enter an income and see where it falls in terms of percentile. It also shows the difference across different areas across the country (just click on the map and you can drill down as well)

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html?_r=0

 

[mshanson3121]

If the middle class has been priced out and the parks are attended by huge numbers, who are these people?

Basically the rich. And yeah, there's a a lot of rich people out there. But they're still the minority when you consider middle class and lower class people. But, happily for Disney, there is enough of them to keep going in record numbers. Disney is for the elite, and there can be very much an elitest attitude, right here on this board.

Here's my two cents:

For starters, many on here can't even objectively chime in, because many people on this board are the very people that that article talks about. You have deep pockets and you are most decidedly "upper" class. I'm sure some of you have built yourselves up from lower or middle class and thus can appreciate what the article is talking about, but some of you have no clue what it's like, quite frankly. I read some of your comments about how "on site" is the only way to a magical vacation, and man, lemme tell you, do I ever want to give you a crash course in reality. I've commented how this is our one and only trip and get told by your deep pockets that, "Don't worry, you'll be back. You can't stop at one trip." And I think, it must be nice to be able to afford to say that.

I read that article from the perspective of someone who until just a year or so ago was living at the official poverty level, though thanks to a new job for DH is now in the middle class. Though, "lower" middle class at that. And yeah, there are scales within the middle class, because let's face it, a family of four living on $40,000 a year isn't exactly the same as a family of four living on $80,000 a year (which is roughly what is considered middle class for Canada). And as a middle class family, let me tell you that yes, Disney is unaffordable for much of the middle class. We could never have afforded this vacation were it not for an inheritance and a generous retro payment on some tax stuff, as well as DH's new job. As it is, the only way we're able to afford it is by staying off site, and by choosing to drive down, by going with our in-laws so that we can cost-share, and by choosing to cook our meals on vacation (which I had a few of you turn your nose up at, stating "vacation is not for cooking"... to which again I say, must be nice to financially have that option). And even then we had to think long and hard about whether or not to spend the money on a trip like this.

I think that Walt Disney would be appalled at what Disney has become, quite frankly. Walt Disney's dreams were for a family park empire that was accessible to all people - not the upper class playground that it has become. The Disney Co. of today certainly does not mesh well with what Walt's mind was. Disney Co. today is concerned about increasing their wealth, and that is the bottom line. Oh, they treat their guests well, I'm not saying they don't, but we can't pretend for one second that they are concerned about opening their market to the middle or lower class, about making Disney an accessible dream for everyone like Walt wanted, because it's just not true. Quite the contrary, Disney is continually trying to expand their "elite" market, and trying to appeal to that mind-set. They say that Disney is an experience unlike any other you'll ever have, and they're marketing that mind set to the people that can afford it. They have no interest in allowing those of lesser means to have the experience as well. If they did, then they would find ways of making it happen.

 

[JessiMommy]

My take on a Disney vacation is this... My family loves to go. We make it our priority. We are not rich. We are middle class, the bottom of middle class most likely. We save, save, save and then we go. At home we don't eat out hardly at all, we don't go to very many movies, and we entertain ourselves with very low cost or free activities year round. Then we take 1-2 Disney trips a year. We usually stay 6-7 days, a lot of times at a moderate or even deluxe hotel. That doesn't make us rich. We worked HARD to make it happen because we choose it. A lot of people who say they can't afford a trip to Disney just aren't choosing to spend money on a trip. There is a difference. We all spend our "extra" money (however much it may be) on what we enjoy. Some people enjoy Disney more than others. My parents make way more money than us and my dad is constantly telling me "Wow, wish I could afford to go to Disney" or "Wish I could afford to stay at the AKL" etc. Meanwhile he and my mom mom eat out several times a week, go to movies, take other trips all year long. It's not that he can't afford to go to Disney or stay at a certain resort. He's choosing not to.

That article doesn't account for all the budget ways you can do Disney if you have to. I hope there never comes a time when we feel we are "priced out." I just don't see it happening though.

I will add that we live 3-4 hours from Disney and don't have to include airfare. Obviously that helps us tremendously.

 

[Barnabe]

The purpose in mentioning how middle class is defined is this: We may think of ourselves as middle class, but we're not. I know that it depends on the region of the country you live in, but try googling middle class income based on the city or state that you live. I think a lot of you will be surprised to discover that you are classified as upper income and not middle class.

My point being that a WDW is probably already out of reach for a lot middle class families.

 

[Barnabe]

Basically the rich. And yeah, there's a a lot of rich people out there. But they're still the minority when you consider middle class and lower class people. But, happily for Disney, there is enough of them to keep going in record numbers. Disney is for the elite, and there can be very much an elitest attitude, right here on this board.

Here's my two cents:

For starters, many on here can't even objectively chime in, because many people on this board are the very people that that article talks about. You have deep pockets and you are most decidedly "upper" class. I'm sure some of you have built yourselves up from lower or middle class and thus can appreciate what the article is talking about, but some of you have no clue what it's like, quite frankly. I read some of your comments about how "on site" is the only way to a magical vacation, and man, lemme tell you, do I ever want to give you a crash course in reality. I've commented how this is our one and only trip and get told by your deep pockets that, "Don't worry, you'll be back. You can't stop at one trip." And I think, it must be nice to be able to afford to say that.

I read that article from the perspective of someone who until just a year or so ago was living at the official poverty level, though thanks to a new job for DH is now in the middle class. Though, "lower" middle class at that. And yeah, there are scales within the middle class, because let's face it, a family of four living on $40,000 a year isn't exactly the same as a family of four living on $80,000 a year (which is roughly what is considered middle class for Canada). And as a middle class family, let me tell you that yes, Disney is unaffordable for much of the middle class. We could never have afforded this vacation were it not for an inheritance and a generous retro payment on some tax stuff, as well as DH's new job. As it is, the only way we're able to afford it is by staying off site, and by choosing to drive down, by going with our in-laws so that we can cost-share, and by choosing to cook our meals on vacation (which I had a few of you turn your nose up at, stating "vacation is not for cooking"... to which again I say, must be nice to financially have that option). And even then we had to think long and hard about whether or not to spend the money on a trip like this.

I think that Walt Disney would be appalled at what Disney has become, quite frankly. Walt Disney's dreams were for a family park empire that was accessible to all people - not the upper class playground that it has become. The Disney Co. of today certainly does not mesh well with what Walt's mind was. Disney Co. today is concerned about increasing their wealth, and that is the bottom line. Oh, they treat their guests well, I'm not saying they don't, but we can't pretend for one second that they are concerned about opening their market to the middle or lower class, about making Disney an accessible dream for everyone like Walt wanted, because it's just not true. Quite the contrary, Disney is continually trying to expand their "elite" market, and trying to appeal to that mind-set. They say that Disney is an experience unlike any other you'll ever have, and they're marketing that mind set to the people that can afford it. They have no interest in allowing those of lesser means to have the experience as well. If they did, then they would find ways of making it happen.

this is an excellent post, very articulate.

 

[mshanson3121]

I don't think you can define "middle class" as salary due to the fact that is more expensive to live in different parts of the country. We live in northern NJ where a small house goes for $400K and the taxes are around $12K a year, so making $100K is not a lot. If we lived in Idaho, $100K would be much easier to live on. Also, my husband travels to NYC for work and pays $30/day in tolls. Our combined salary is $240K/year and we
are not rich by any means.

I agree with this to an extent. Where you live makes a big difference in how far your money goes, I agee. But that said, it also boils down to choices, too. A small "nice" house goes for $400K. There are certainly houses for sale less than that, they're just not what you would consider an option for you. I mean, what do you think the people do that have family incomes of $60-70K? They still find places to live, though obviously not in the neighborhood you chose.

 

[lovndisney12]

Our 20th Wedding Anniversary is coming up this December and I looked around at a lot of options. WDW has been our family's favorite place and after doing a lot of research, we ended up choosing WDW as our place to celebrate. Why? Simply put it was actually the best "value" for what we would be getting. We are middle class and no - we cannot afford to do this type of trip every year but certainly more than "once in a lifetime."

Our family consists of two teenage boys and our cost per person for 7 days of awesome entertainment, 6 days of meals, 6 nights lodging, and on-site transportation is about $135 per person per day. AND this is going during one the most expensive times of the year, staying at a moderate resort, and using the Free regular dining plan. So, we certainly could go even cheaper. I do not find this overpriced compared to similar options at all. Our local amusement park is about $50 for the ticket - add in parking, food, and snacks and you are pushing $100 - and that is without a hotel. A professional sports event or concert can easily run anywhere from $30 to $100+ a ticket - and again add in food and parking. Of course there are vacations that are cheaper and we take those in the off years but again you aren't comparing apples to apples. On those trips we cook most of our own food; stay with family, camp, or rent a house; and usually enjoy the outdoors fishing or hiking.

Do I wish Disney was less expensive? Absolutely! We could go more often and stay longer. But I also wish college, vehicles, and just about everything else didn't cost so much too!

 

[Pbeh]

Even though I am not crazy about the rising Disney prices for tickets/resorts, I think in a way, it is good. Let me explain. If the tickets and resort prices were cut in half, I would never go to the parks because there would probably be twice as many people there. I think the parks are crowded as it is and if the prices were cheaper, they would be even more crowded.

My thoughts exactly! We used to live in Milwaukee and purchased an annual zoo pass. It paid for itself after about three visits and was about 150.00 for a family of four. Every now and then the zoo would offer free days where any county residents could come for free. We went once just because it was a nice day, and holy cow was it packed! We avoided the free days after that because the crowd made the experience much less enjoyable. Disney won't do free days, but if they cut their prices imagine how packed the parks would be! I can't imagine it being worth the savings. I sympathize with those who feel they can't afford to go, we choose to make this our family vacation each year and it costs us, but not much more then a lot of other places we might go instead.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

According to the NY times the Middle Class is defined as having a household income of between $35,000- $100,000. I'm not saying that this is the most accurate source, but according to their charts, my family is part of the upper income bracket. However, I do see my family as middle class.

I'm just wondering how many people on these boards are really members of the middle class. Is Disney pricing the parks out of reach for people with a annual household income between $35,000- $100,000?

I think this is probably true. I think a lot of us would describe ourselves as middle class based on the lifestyle we have. Personally, I was surprised to see where my family fell according to income bracket and I looked at one which based on the area I live in. Regardless of where you see yourself, Disney if definitely aiming for families that make $80,000+.

I'm not sure but I think a big factor for many families is the airfare versus being able to easily drive to a local destination. That could be part of what takes it from an affordable vacation to a very expensive vacation.

The fact that we can drive to Disney in less than 10 hours is a huge factor. Because we can drive, our vacations usually cost around $3500-$4000 for 8-10 days. This summer, the kids and I are flying to WI to see family. Our airfare was almost $1000. I love my family, but it is in no way a relaxing vacation.

 

[itchin2go]

Basically the rich. And yeah, there's a a lot of rich people out there. But they're still the minority when you consider middle class and lower class people. But, happily for Disney, there is enough of them to keep going in record numbers. Disney is for the elite, and there can be very much an elitest attitude, right here on this board.

Here's my two cents:

For starters, many on here can't even objectively chime in, because many people on this board are the very people that that article talks about. You have deep pockets and you are most decidedly "upper" class. I'm sure some of you have built yourselves up from lower or middle class and thus can appreciate what the article is talking about, but some of you have no clue what it's like, quite frankly. I read some of your comments about how "on site" is the only way to a magical vacation, and man, lemme tell you, do I ever want to give you a crash course in reality. I've commented how this is our one and only trip and get told by your deep pockets that, "Don't worry, you'll be back. You can't stop at one trip." And I think, it must be nice to be able to afford to say that.

I read that article from the perspective of someone who until just a year or so ago was living at the official poverty level, though thanks to a new job for DH is now in the middle class. Though, "lower" middle class at that. And yeah, there are scales within the middle class, because let's face it, a family of four living on $40,000 a year isn't exactly the same as a family of four living on $80,000 a year (which is roughly what is considered middle class for Canada). And as a middle class family, let me tell you that yes, Disney is unaffordable for much of the middle class. We could never have afforded this vacation were it not for an inheritance and a generous retro payment on some tax stuff, as well as DH's new job. As it is, the only way we're able to afford it is by staying off site, and by choosing to drive down, by going with our in-laws so that we can cost-share, and by choosing to cook our meals on vacation (which I had a few of you turn your nose up at, stating "vacation is not for cooking"... to which again I say, must be nice to financially have that option). And even then we had to think long and hard about whether or not to spend the money on a trip like this.

I think that Walt Disney would be appalled at what Disney has become, quite frankly. Walt Disney's dreams were for a family park empire that was accessible to all people - not the upper class playground that it has become. The Disney Co. of today certainly does not mesh well with what Walt's mind was. Disney Co. today is concerned about increasing their wealth, and that is the bottom line. Oh, they treat their guests well, I'm not saying they don't, but we can't pretend for one second that they are concerned about opening their market to the middle or lower class, about making Disney an accessible dream for everyone like Walt wanted, because it's just not true. Quite the contrary, Disney is continually trying to expand their "elite" market, and trying to appeal to that mind-set. They say that Disney is an experience unlike any other you'll ever have, and they're marketing that mind set to the people that can afford it. They have no interest in allowing those of lesser means to have the experience as well. If they did, then they would find ways of making it happen.

Not true in every case, but maybe true for many. We're not rich, but we prioritize a Disney World vacation every year/2 years. By virtue of my husband's job, we have access to a nice, fairly low cost offsite resort. Last year we stayed for free. We drive. It's a long way, but we're used to it. Tickets are expensive, but really, every vacation is expensive. We save, socking away Disney gift cards, for instance. We are not big spenders in every day life. We don't eat out very much, or splurge on much of anything. That may sound like a sad existence, but it's not.

Other than the cost of tickets, which are certainly not a budget item, I think a Disney World vacation is very accessible. Maybe I'm looking through rich people's glasses, but I truly don't think I am. You can get the impression that everyone here is wildly throwing around money. I don't think that's the case, but maybe it is. I'm not.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want them to raise ticket prices, but I think that article focused on premium experiences at Disney World that most of us are not tacking on. I do think Disney is raising prices, in an almost experimental way. Jack it up $5 and let's see what happens. I don't like it, but I'm not sure I would advocate anything different if I were advising them. I may be sentimental about Disney, but it's a for-profit company.

Edited to add: I do think many of the latest Disney World offerings are aimed at the *uninformed with money to throw around* set. I mostly laugh at this. If Disney can extract money from these folks in exchange for nothing much, more power to them. I'm not signing up for these add-ons.

 

[MillauFr]

I don't think tou can really define middle class by income. It's more of a standard of living. 100K in NYC is going to be hard-pressed to consider as middle class, while 60K in rural Mississippi is more than enough.

Exactly. Middle class families from NYC can easily afford a trip to Disneyworld. $300k per year is a middle class income for a family in Manhattan.

 

[mattsdragon]

This article is the typical Anti-Disney garbage that always pops up. It is a load of crap. My family is middle class and the pricing hasn't affected our trips.

Supply and demand. If the public affords it, they go, if they don't they stop. They haven't stopped yet.

For most, Disney isn't a spur of the moment thing, so they plan their vacation, including saving money for it. Besides, there is no "right" to a Disney vacation, or any other vacation for that matter. If people can't afford it, oh well, the company hasn't hit their threshold on profits yet.