Will this Washington Post Article Affect Your Planning?

[Cee]

I've been going to WDW since 1971. i knew then that Disney wanted to separate me from my money. I go with eyes wide open and wallet wide open. This is my choice, until I choose something else.

 

[PirateD]

The purpose in mentioning how middle class is defined is this: We may think of ourselves as middle class, but we're not. I know that it depends on the region of the country you live in, but try googling middle class income based on the city or state that you live. I think a lot of you will be surprised to discover that you are classified as upper income and not middle class.

My point being that a WDW is probably already out of reach for a lot middle class families.

There are a number of articles being published about how the middle class is shrinking with some moving into the upper class but most people falling below into poverty levels due to "stagnant wages" and increases in housing costs. They quote a study that did take into account different states, incomes, and the cost of living.

I have no way of knowing whether this is true or not, but I did find it interesting considering recent speculation that Disney is shifting to marketing to the top 10-20% instead of the middle class. Maybe they no longer see the middle class as a sustainable market.

One of the articles discussed how many people who are now in the upper class still identify themselves as being middle class.

I'm not saying that any of the above is right or wrong, but I did find it interesting and saw some connections to some of the discussions here on the Disboards.

 

[MillauFr]

One of the articles discussed how many people who are now in the upper class still identify themselves as being middle class.

Many people I know think they are middle class, but when I point out they in the top 10% for family income I asked them isn't that upper class? Isn't middle class when you earn between 33% and 67% of family gross income?

 

[wdwjeffc37]

I voted no. We like to vacation at WDW and know that it will be a fairly expensive trip, especially when we fly. I do think that going to WDW for a week is a pretty good value compared to other travel and entertainment options. I also think that Disney has made it possible for people of a wide variety of income groups to vacation there if they are will to budget for it. The different levels of accommodations, multi-day tickets, inclusive transportation allow the cost per day to cover a wide range.
Some random thoughts:
-Universal Studios Orlando single day tickets are over $100
-Broadway show tickets are $60 - $200 each for a 3-4 hour show.
-Hotel prices on the beach are $150 and up.
-Resort meals are expensive just about anywhere.
-WDW offers basically 18 hours a day entertainment for your per day price.

The fact that Disney attendance keeps going up is evidence enough that it is accessible to a large part of the population. There aren't that many people moving into the upper class.
JMHO. Cheers!!!!!

 

[kirstenb1]

We've owned DVC since 1993, and have Platinum Passes for Busch Gardens back home so we get into Sea World and Aquatica for free. We're middle class and go to WDW once a year in June. I guarantee you we would maybe go every 5 yrs if we didn't have DVC. A WDW vacation has become insanely expensive. Because I don't see the value for our family in Epcot, AK, or DHS, we skip those parks. We buy a one day ticket to the MK( best park for our family, hands down), and spend the rest of the week at Sea World/Aquatica/at the resort. Oh, and we eat counter service lunches in the parks, but spend breakfast and dinner cooking something simple back at the villa.

I think there are a couple of questions we all ask ourselves:

1. can we even afford it?
2. for those who answered yes, then the question becomes am I getting a good value for my money? The more expensive park tix become, the less value I perceive us getting from them. Hence getting rid of Epcot/AK/DHS for our trips. Same thing with the food there. Yes we can afford it, but I don't perceive the value in it.

 

[wendydarling826]

I read the article and thought that if I hadn't been to WDW as many times as I have in the past 13 years, it might have made me believe that this was a vacation only the wealthy could enjoy. Knowing what I know about planning a Disney vacation,however, I found the article very misleading. I'm sure that there are many famiies who can't afford a vacation in Disney. When I was growing up, it would not have been an option for my family, even if the gate price was $3.50 a day as the article stated. I do think that for "middle class" families who can take a vacation, Disney is a good value. We have gone in years when we splurge on signature dining, and we have gone in years when we've needed to strictly limit our spending. If people do their homework,it is possible to do Disney on a budget, and even if you only went for one day and paid the $100. ticket price, I still believe it is a good value. Most families do not go for just one day, so their price of admission is not as much as the article implied. We go for 20 days a year on one Annual Pass, which makes our per day cost about $26. A day at a baseball or football game in Philadelphia would cost at least as much as a day in Disney, and a week at the Jersey shore would cost us more than a week in Disney. I also think that there is a market for the high end accommodations like the GF and the new Polynesian bungalows, so why shouldn't Disney address that market? There are plenty of lower cost options already available.

 

[mom4fun]

All entertainment is going up in cost. Maybe we should give subsidies for everyone below a certain income bracket for entertainment. Ha ha. How is it that even huge school groups of kids in sports, band, etc. from our country and abroad are able to afford it. We are one of those families with only one income that scrimps and saves and doesn't stay on site for more than one night and that is at a value. It is one of the most economical vacations we can take. The middle class can afford Disney but they may not be willing to make the sacrifices. That being said, I hate when prices go up on anything.

 

[isaboo]

I can tell you from experience that it's super easy for a family to drop $500 on a day at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo. If you are going to a concert, eating crappy fried food all day, buying souvenirs and riding rides/playing games on the midway it adds up fast. We skipped it altogether this year and put the money in our Disney fund.

 

[Goofy'slady]

As a single parent and one income family we are definitely in the middle class and by some perspectives the lower end of that only don't tell my girls they will argue you to the death on how rich the "think" we are, LOL.

I've been one of those lucky kids who grew up in a family of two professional parents who could afford to travel a lot and not just to Disney either. However, I remember going and staying for two weeks at a time and that was unheard of from my friends who's parents either couldn't afford to take their kids or who could and just for whatever reason didn't. However, I didn't actually stay on property until I was a married woman and we went to celebrate our 5th wedding anniversary. Once I experienced it I knew if I would return with our children then I would want for them to experience what we did. The following year the trip was planned and my kids were hooked and we haven't looked back.

Now, that I am single and my one income must cover EVERYTHING outside of bills and needs our wants have to be carefully and I do mean CAREFULLY planned out ahead. Yes, holidays and birthdays are still big, and we still go out to eat from time to time, taking in a movie is still apart of our year round fun but they are meticulously planned out so that we can still have our annual Disney vacation with some of the bells and whistles. We like character meals, the occasional dinner show, I LOVE Memory Maker and not having to lug around a camera, I loved when my youngest did BBB last time and other little fun extras that can take a regular vacation to a more expensive vacation in a flash. We have no interest (at least not now) in doing expensive tours and staying at a resort that is more than an entire month of my monthly expenses. My girls are still at ages where they want to spend the majority of their time in the parks so moderate resorts are a perfect fit for us. Perhaps after my youngest is a tad bit older and we can shave a few days off of our trips we will stay deluxe but they rather stay 10+ days where mummy can afford rather than have to shave off precious vacation days just so they can say "we stayed at the Grand Floridian CL" because as far as I know most of the people I know in the REAL world don't know about resort levels and Club Level vs standard level and honestly when I explain it makes little or no difference to them because as far as they are concerned just being able to take my kids to Disney year after year is awesome.

My parents were great with money. They taught me (especially my mum) how to take 1 dollar and make it look like you have 100. I would like to say I graduated from the "Girl, how do you think we do what we do" school of finance. I haven't been priced out of Disney yet and I would think that at worst in the future if things get soooo expensive that instead of being able to go every year I'd be able to go every other year and that's fine by me, gives them a year to throw something new on the grill for me to enjoy.

 

[goofyernmost]

I put "maybe" but that is only because this particular scenario is nothing more then a survey right now. My plans might change if it is actually put into practice, but, I don't think it will see the light of day. If it does, I will decide then what, if anything, I need to do. It pretty much can only affect people that are day trippers the way it seems at this point. If I bought my ticket months in advance it would be pretty difficult to get me to pay extra when I get there. And if they did, that would be the last they would ever see of me again. I know that doesn't scare them, but, it's the truth.

 

[mousefan73]

My DS9 went to our town's annual fair with his BF's family. I gave him 25 bucks. That got him 2 -3 hrs of fun that included a snack and drink, 2 rounds of shooting games, one bumper car ride.

Disney for what it costs, IMO is dirt cheap if you break down every experience you'd have to pay at a standard fest/ fair.

But it is an overall factor especially once you have a larger group. At times I think geez if it was just DH and I how cheap it would be.

 

[MrInfinity]

I don't think you can truly get a good answer to this question. That is, you can get an answer to how many people are middle class but not based on an income range. Cost of Living varies widely, and household can mean anything from 1 to [insert number here] people. So do expenses vary.

As an example, I live in the Boston area. We have no family close by, we have three kids and we both have jobs. For 6 out of the past 14 years, we paid $35,000 per year for childcare. Yes, you read that number right. So, according to the range you cited we would have had to be way out of the upper end of your middle class bracket in order to have that much left over for childcare after taxes, food, and housing, but I'll tell you that we are solidly upper middle class in lifestyle and it's not because we're packing away tons of money into the bank and just not spending it.

In Boston, $135,500 is the cutoff.
http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

We live in northern NJ where a small house goes for $400K and the taxes are around $12K a year, so making $100K is not a lot. If we lived in Idaho, $100K would be much easier to live on. Also, my husband travels to NYC for work and pays $30/day in tolls. Our combined salary is $240K/year and we
are not rich by any means.

$240k is rich anywhere, even California. You are in the top 3% of all US incomes. Congrats. Top 6% of the New York region.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html?_r=0

 

[mshanson3121]

I keep seeing comments about how "all vacations" are comparably expensive - um, no, they're not, lol. But again, I think it depends on how deep your pockets are/what you're spending it on. All inclusive resort/beach vacations, sure, I can see that, how basically they're the same. But again, those are typically vacations that are not possible for middle class families. And I guess for sake of argument, let's say lower middle class families. We have always gone away for 4-5 nights, spent 2-3 days in smaller theme parks that offer full day entertainment, and never spent more than $1000 on a vacation yet including activities, lodging, expenses to ge there (typically driving 6-7 hours) food and spending money. If we were to do that at Disney, we'd be spending almost $1000 on the theme park tickets alone. So for those of us on the lower scale - Disney is by far and away an extremely expensive vacation.

One could argue that we could just skip vacations each year, save that money, and then just do a Disney trip every 4-5 years. But, IMHO, Disney's not worth that for our family. So that's our choice. But I look at is through the knowledge that there have been years we haven't had ANY money to go anywhere, so there would have been no money to save, so realistically our kids would have only ended up with maybe 2 vacations EVER, in their entire 18 years with us, if we just kept trying for that "Disney Dream".

As for the comments that by reducing prices to make Disney more accessible would make it more crowded, I do think a tier system would work well here. Allow discounted prices at various times throughout the year that are typically slower. I also think that they could lower the pricing on some of the "extra" things like the Frozen Premium Package etc... That is so overpriced for what you get. I think there are ways to lower costs to open it up for more families. But will they? Doubtful.

 

[illinidp]

Typical example of modern "journal-lists", commentary thinly disguised as news. The author only mentions new deluxe accommodations and signature dining and even then doesn't mention that it is a DVC resort or that it is a meal for two. Any newer moderate or value priced options are omitted entirely. The article implies that it costs over $100 each and every day for entry into the parks as if all amusement parks don't charge premium for a one day ticket. Discounted packages and free dining are never mentioned, yet VIP tours are. When I go to Orlando I see mostly middle class families there. Disney has many options for nearly every price point.

 

[jenrose66]

An interesting discussion of the pricing phenomenon at WDW.

Will it affect YOUR trip? Answer the poll and discuss below...

This article was printed on the front page (must be a slow news day) of our local paper today. My mom made a point to show it to me and I tried to refute the claims in the article, to call it nonsense, but I actually wasn't able to do it. My family has not been to Disney since 2012 and I have been itching for a way to get us back but it has gotten prohibitively expensive. This year we went to Universal for 6 nights instead of Disney because it was a better value for our limited vacation dollars and cheaper by hundreds of dollars.

This particular article will not affect my choice to go to Disney again either way, however, the fact that both of my sons (and DH too) loved Universal and they have tons of new stuff coming, and right now give you more bang for your buck, will probably keep my family from Disney for longer than I'd personally like to be away.

 

[ChimCher-ee]

I think this is a very slanted article.

Anything that leads with the swamp as a hook isn't going to be balanced reporting.

 

[mshanson3121]

Typical example of modern "journal-lists", commentary thinly disguised as news. The author only mentions new deluxe accommodations and signature dining and even then doesn't mention that it is a DVC resort or that it is a meal for two. Any newer moderate or value priced options are omitted entirely. The article implies that it costs over $100 each and every day for entry into the parks as if all amusement parks don't charge premium for a one day ticket. Discohttp://www.disboards.com/threads/will-this-washington-post-article-affect-your-planning.3418894/page-4#post-53845520unted packages and free dining are never mentioned, yet VIP tours are. When I go to Orlando I see mostly middle class families there. Disney has many options for nearly every price point.

They did mention the multi-day ticket discount, twice in fact:

“We continually add new experiences, and many of our guests select multi-day tickets or annual passes, which provide great value and additional savings,” Wahler said.

Disney says it has made an effort to keep its gates open to all, offering -packages such as multi-day tickets and yearly passes to help balance out the costs.

Though I agree they could have mentioned the free dining program or value resorts or their sales. But, even the word "value" resort is somewhat of a laugh, when you consider the rates can get as high as $165-200 a night.

But I'm curious... how do you know they are middle class families that you are seeing? I mean, really? Is it by their clothes? Their stroller? Their hair cut? Do they walk around with a sign that says, "We make $65,000 a year."? You have no idea what income you are seeing. Because lemme tell you, even when we lived at the poverty level, we still "looked" what I'm assuming you consider to be middle class. You can get some great clothes at thrift stores, thanks to a hand me down stroller, I had one of the "Cadillac" strollers, thanks to my mother in laws trip to Chinatown in NYC I have a beautiful knock-off Gucci purse. So... you have no clue what others make. lol. And to be fair, living in a rural farming community, I know some people with VERY deep pockets, that walk around looking like they oughta be living in the Hillbillies shack.

Per the article, considering that the average Orlando tourists income is $93,000 ($20,000 above the national average US income, with low to average middle class considered to be $32500-60000), it's pretty safe to say that the majority of travelers are upper class income and upper middle class income. Not low middle, or low income.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

As a single parent and one income family we are definitely in the middle class and by some perspectives the lower end of that only don't tell my girls they will argue you to the death on how rich the "think" we are, LOL.

I've been one of those lucky kids who grew up in a family of two professional parents who could afford to travel a lot and not just to Disney either. However, I remember going and staying for two weeks at a time and that was unheard of from my friends who's parents either couldn't afford to take their kids or who could and just for whatever reason didn't. However, I didn't actually stay on property until I was a married woman and we went to celebrate our 5th wedding anniversary. Once I experienced it I knew if I would return with our children then I would want for them to experience what we did. The following year the trip was planned and my kids were hooked and we haven't looked back.

Now, that I am single and my one income must cover EVERYTHING outside of bills and needs our wants have to be carefully and I do mean CAREFULLY planned out ahead. Yes, holidays and birthdays are still big, and we still go out to eat from time to time, taking in a movie is still apart of our year round fun but they are meticulously planned out so that we can still have our annual Disney vacation with some of the bells and whistles. We like character meals, the occasional dinner show, I LOVE Memory Maker and not having to lug around a camera, I loved when my youngest did BBB last time and other little fun extras that can take a regular vacation to a more expensive vacation in a flash. We have no interest (at least not now) in doing expensive tours and staying at a resort that is more than an entire month of my monthly expenses. My girls are still at ages where they want to spend the majority of their time in the parks so moderate resorts are a perfect fit for us. Perhaps after my youngest is a tad bit older and we can shave a few days off of our trips we will stay deluxe but they rather stay 10+ days where mummy can afford rather than have to shave off precious vacation days just so they can say "we stayed at the Grand Floridian CL" because as far as I know most of the people I know in the REAL world don't know about resort levels and Club Level vs standard level and honestly when I explain it makes little or no difference to them because as far as they are concerned just being able to take my kids to Disney year after year is awesome.

My parents were great with money. They taught me (especially my mum) how to take 1 dollar and make it look like you have 100. I would like to say I graduated from the "Girl, how do you think we do what we do" school of finance. I haven't been priced out of Disney yet and I would think that at worst in the future if things get soooo expensive that instead of being able to go every year I'd be able to go every other year and that's fine by me, gives them a year to throw something new on the grill for me to enjoy.

I'm also a single parent and this is our first trip that I am financing. My trips with XH were a drop in the bucket.

This trip took a LOT of CAREFUL planning. It took a year of saving and a whole budget spreadsheet. I also like to do some extras with BBB and character meals. We are only staying deluxe because of a magical deal that is just a few bucks more than a moderate to stay deluxe. I couldn't pass it up.

We never went to Disney as a kid. We were poor. Very poor. Below the poverty line poor. I actually grew up in a city that has been voted poorest city in America several times. We had no phone, no cable and no car for most of my childhood. IF anyone in my neighborhood went to WDW they drove from NJ and had family in Orlando. They would stay at that persons house, buy a one day ticket to MK, pack food to take into the park. That's how we vacationed in 2003 (except we did more than one day with military tickets and bought food in the parks) and then right before our 2008 trip I discovered the DIS.

Do I think this article will sway me? No but I will say the cost of this upcoming trip has my eyes almost popping out of my head. I'm not sure if the cost is going to be worth it and I won't know until this trip is over.

I don't know when we will go again as a big family trip but that's not because of this article. I like to go every 2-3 years. DS will go in 2018 with his senior class. I want to do something else (cruise, Caribbean, Puerto Rico) for 2016 and 2017. I've thought about taking DD on a mother/daughter trip in 2017. I've asked DS if he would like to go on a trip just us but Universal is a huge option price wise and perks.

 

[mom4fun]

I keep seeing comments about how "all vacations" are comparably expensive - um, no, they're not, lol. But again, I think it depends on how deep your pockets are/what you're spending it on. All inclusive resort/beach vacations, sure, I can see that, how basically they're the same. But again, those are typically vacations that are not possible for middle class families. And I guess for sake of argument, let's say lower middle class families. We have always gone away for 4-5 nights, spent 2-3 days in smaller theme parks that offer full day entertainment, and never spent more than $1000 on a vacation yet including activities, lodging, expenses to ge there (typically driving 6-7 hours) food and spending money. If we were to do that at Disney, we'd be spending almost $1000 on the theme park tickets alone. So for those of us on the lower scale - Disney is by far and away an extremely expensive vacation.

One could argue that we could just skip vacations each year, save that money, and then just do a Disney trip every 4-5 years. But, IMHO, Disney's not worth that for our family. So that's our choice. But I look at is through the knowledge that there have been years we haven't had ANY money to go anywhere, so there would have been no money to save, so realistically our kids would have only ended up with maybe 2 vacations EVER, in their entire 18 years with us, if we just kept trying for that "Disney Dream".

As for the comments that by reducing prices to make Disney more accessible would make it more crowded, I do think a tier system would work well here. Allow discounted prices at various times throughout the year that are typically slower. I also think that they could lower the pricing on some of the "extra" things like the Frozen Premium Package etc... That is so overpriced for what you get. I think there are ways to lower costs to open it up for more families. But will they? Doubtful.

Why would it cost $1000 for Disney tickets if you only go for 2 or 3 days?

I keep seeing comments about how "all vacations" are comparably expensive - um, no, they're not, lol. But again, I think it depends on how deep your pockets are/what you're spending it on. All inclusive resort/beach vacations, sure, I can see that, how basically they're the same. But again, those are typically vacations that are not possible for middle class families. And I guess for sake of argument, let's say lower middle class families. We have always gone away for 4-5 nights, spent 2-3 days in smaller theme parks that offer full day entertainment, and never spent more than $1000 on a vacation yet including activities, lodging, expenses to ge there (typically driving 6-7 hours) food and spending money. If we were to do that at Disney, we'd be spending almost $1000 on the theme park tickets alone. So for those of us on the lower scale - Disney is by far and away an extremely expensive vacation.

One could argue that we could just skip vacations each year, save that money, and then just do a Disney trip every 4-5 years. But, IMHO, Disney's not worth that for our family. So that's our choice. But I look at is through the knowledge that there have been years we haven't had ANY money to go anywhere, so there would have been no money to save, so realistically our kids would have only ended up with maybe 2 vacations EVER, in their entire 18 years with us, if we just kept trying for that "Disney Dream".

As for the comments that by reducing prices to make Disney more accessible would make it more crowded, I do think a tier system would work well here. Allow discounted prices at various times throughout the year that are typically slower. I also think that they could lower the pricing on some of the "extra" things like the Frozen Premium Package etc... That is so overpriced for what you get. I think there are ways to lower costs to open it up for more families. But will they? Doubtful.

In all sincerity I would like to know how many are in your family? How do you do a vacation for $1000 that covers 5 nights lodging, 3 days of theme park tickets, food and also gas for a 7 hour drive? Would love to know specifics of any place we could do this.

 

[mshanson3121]

Why would it cost $1000 for Disney tickets if you only go for 2 or 3 days?

Because BASE (no extras) tickets for a family of 4 (two adults, two children) are $1131 US for 3 days since the last price increase. So I was wrong, it would be OVER $1000. And for us when you convert that to Canadian funds, that becomes $1400. Pretty sad really when you stop and think about it!

In all sincerity I would like to know how many are in your family? How do you do a vacation for $1000 that covers 5 nights lodging, 3 days of theme park tickets, food and also gas for a 7 hour drive? Would love to know specifics of any place we could do this.

We're a family of 4. As for the vacation and how we do it so cheaply, the first key is to travel before peak season (generally before the end of June where we go). Then the second is our location - New Hampshire 1. It's tax free 2. They have tonnes of great, affordable lodging 3.We typically travel with our in-laws, rent a cottage, split the cost and buy groceries and make our meals instead of eating out. Pack lunches to take to the parks. 4. Sooo many things to see and do, many are inexpensive. 4. Their two main theme parks are Storyland and Santa's Village. Storyland especially is a two-day park if you want to see everything, and they offer character dinners and a sweet tea party with Cinderella. Tickets are only $28.99 per person or $99 for a season pass. Santa's Village is geared more towards the younger children, but has has a great water park area within it and has several different shows. Tickets are $30 each, or $55 for two days, or $79 for a season pass. So... typically we spend 3 days between these two for a cost of only $332. Gas there/back (for us) is only about $120-150. Lodging is normally $60 a night for our share, so 4 nights is $240. Groceries for 5 days (shared cost) is typically $75. Total: $797. Which leaves about $200 for spending or to do something else. We typically don't buy much on vacation. Even if we were to go on our own, it would only be about $1050.

Our other vacation choice is PEI, Canada. Similar pricing, options etc... Also, bear in mind, we don't care much for fancy lodging. The places we stay at are very plain/basic. They're not fancy by any means, certainly not anything remotely like anything Disney offers, but they're clean and comfortable. That's all we need.