Will this end up being the pandemic that cried wolf?

[hopemax]

I understand that some people do not want to end the shutdown but if you are not comfortable leaving home you don't have to. Please do whatever makes you comfortable. But, we do need to get the economy going again soon. If we don't there will be nothing left to come back from. A balancing of concerns is needed.

The problem is that both of these can't happen at the same time. People can't stay home, by choice, and have the economy recover. 70% of GDP is based on consumer spending. We have to have eyes wide open about what our economy will look like if things reopen. It won't be what we are used to until the health care crisis is solved.

Yes, this is an absolutely horrible Sophie's Choice.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's not just less population. There's a very different mentality in small towns.

I wasn't referring to a small town by any means. The middle of the country does have some larger metro areas that are still not as large as NYC.

 

[wombat_5606]

I heard a heart breaking story of a mother sitting on the steps of a local post office begging people for food to feed her kids

Sadly, that's any day in this country, with or without a pandemic.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

So we mandate everyone stays home until everybody is okay with it? I don't see where anyone is simply opening back up.

If you had read anything I've said over the last few days, I have NEVER said that. I clearly said that I don't think waiting for a vaccine is smart, nor feasible. But states like GA being told June 26th is the earliest they should begin reopening and doing it today anyway - yeah, that I have problems with. And I'm sorry, tattoo parlors, hair salons, nail salons and massage parlors are NOT necessary right now. And don't come back at with me about livelihood because I've also already explained how in the long run it actually hurts more of these types of places because they lose unemployment benefits, while having less clients and spending more out of pocket to be able to safely follow all the guidelines given to them.

And yes, there are people who want to just open back up and see what happens. Build herd immunity. It's been throughout this thread and even on this page about how Sweden is doing it.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It's not just less population. There's a very different mentality in small towns.

Small towns are different than big cities, but every small town is different from another. Small towns are like people - they are so individual as to be almost completely unpredictable.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I wasn't referring to a small town by any means. The middle of the country does have some larger metro areas that are still not as large as NYC.

Almost half the deaths are in three states. The entire country even larger metropolitan areas haven't been affected the same. Yes we should be more cautious in larger metro areas but continuing to shutter the country..no.

 

[Notrealname]

Lastly, people need to stop comparing the US to Sweden (both directions). They have a different population size, healthcare system and general ability to self monitor. First, they are taking some shut down measures, just not all. More people live on by themselves and there are less multi-generational households. More people telecommuted before this all started. It would be better to compare it another European nation of similar size and demographics and if you do, Sweden's numbers are horrible. However, nobody can say right now if they made the right choice or the wrong one. Time will tell. But they aren't at a place yet where they can claim victory in the smarter choice.

Thats an excellent comparison of Sweden and the US.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Almost half the deaths are in three states. The entire country even larger metropolitan areas haven't been affected the same. Yes we should be more cautious in larger metro areas but continuing to shutter the country..no.

I think what killed the NY Metro area was the use of mass transit. I worked in midtown for 15 years, commuting from Long Island and then NJ. You really cannot work in NYC without using mass transit, and you are packed in like sardines twice/day. It spread so fast because of that.

I have spent time in just about every decent sized city in America and none comes close to NYC in the way that people are forced together in close contact - actual physical contact - over and over again.

I could show you picture after picture of people packed in subway stations, train stations, on the streets, in restaurants and delis, etc. It is a petri dish made for spreading disease.

 

[cabanafrau]

Sadly, that's any day in this country, with or without a pandemic.

On a pre pandemic day in this country could you find people in great need and even a mother sitting on the steps of the post office, begging for food to feed her children? Tragically, yes.
However on that pre pandemic day in this country it was also possible to find and access several social agencies and charitable entities that would be able and likely to provide some measure of assistance, possibly even a rather robust response one in quite a lot of cases. Pre pandemic, mid pandemic or post pandemic it is true that there are and will be some who will resist efforts to provide resources, preferring instead for their own reasons to approach the situation by soliciting assistance on the post office steps. I don't see that changing.

I found out yesterday that in our area many of those agencies simply don't have anything left, or are under strain unlike any in recent memory. I had to break away from several of the sessions yesterday when I hit the point that I could no longer absorb and cope with the facts and figures being presented.

 

[Notrealname]

It's not just less population. There's a very different mentality in small towns.

Mentality matters to viruses?

Almost half the deaths are in three states. The entire country even larger metropolitan areas haven't been affected the same. [* *] Yes we should be more cautious in larger metro areas but continuing to shutter the country..no.

Insert “yet” [* *] above.

 

[cabanafrau]

Almost half the deaths are in three states. The entire country even larger metropolitan areas haven't been affected the same. Yes we should be more cautious in larger metro areas but continuing to shutter the country..no.

I didn't suggest the shuttering of the country. Merely pointed out that you don't have to be in an area as large or as densely populated as NYC to be an area that's getting hammered hard.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I think what killed the NY Metro area was the use of mass transit. I worked in midtown for 15 years, commuting from Long Island and then NJ. You really cannot work in NYC without using mass transit, and you are packed in like sardines twice/day. It spread so fast because of that.

I have spent time in just about every decent sized city in America and none comes close to NYC in the way that people are forced together in close contact - actual physical contact - over and over again.

I could show you picture after picture of people packed in subway stations, train stations, on the streets, in restaurants and delis, etc. It is a petri dish made for spreading disease.

It's likely one of the reasons. New Yorkers were also told to go enjoy restaurants and the theater by the mayor and their health commissioner. This may have added to the problem.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Nope, not if you're comparing it to Covid.

Your analogy doesn't work.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's likely one of the reasons. New Yorkers were also told to go enjoy restaurants and the theater by the mayor and their health commissioner. This may have added to the problem.

I didn't hear about this. Was this much earlier on, like maybe six weeks or so ago?

 

[xuxa777]

... But states like GA being told June 26th is the earliest they should begin reopening ....

Who is telling GA June 26th is the earliest they should open?

 

[sam_gordon]

And yes, there are people who want to just open back up and see what happens.

And yes, there are people who want to lock everyone up in their homes for a month or until a vaccine.

 

[fatmanatee]

I didn't hear about this. Was this much earlier on, like maybe six weeks or so ago?

de Blasio tweeted something on March 2 that looks very bad in retrospect. Weird to think about how things would be if instead he shut things down that day, on several levels. NYC wouldn't have gotten hammered, and he'd probably end up getting a ton of flak from the people making fun of him for not shutting things down quickly enough.

(I say that as someone who is very annoyed about how de Blasio has handled this, but it's all a strange situation)

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It's likely one of the reasons. New Yorkers were also told to go enjoy restaurants and the theater by the mayor and their health commissioner. This may have added to the problem.

Sigh - nope - that had nothing to do with it, but go ahead with the hate.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Who is telling GA June 26th is the earliest they should open?

Sorry, I mixed it up with Iowa. Georgia is June 19th. And that's the White House model and reported on CNN

 

[BuckeyeBama]

And yes, there are people who want to lock everyone up in their homes for a month or until a vaccine.

We can't use the extremes. I mean, there are people who have actually said that they are happy to let the at risk die, but they are the fringe and can't be used in rational discussion about possible solutions, either.