Will the monorail ever be expanded?

[mobocracy]

We just got back from 5 days in WDW. We stayed in the Contemporary and it was SO convenient to get around with the monorail basically underneath us (quite literally; I wanted a higher room but we were on 6 -- you can just barely feel the monorail as it comes through, the room was much quieter than I would have expected).

There is a loop to Epcot from Ticketing & Transportation and it makes me wonder why there isn't a separate loop from Epcot through the Epcot resorts and on to Hollywood Studios and then Animal Kingdom. The Epcot station appears to have the space to add a T&T-style change monorails setup.

Sure, you'd have to change monorails twice to get to Hollywood/AK from Contemporary/Polynesian/Grand Floridian but the benefit seems huge because you'd be able to much more easily and quickly switch parks mid-day as well as adding a huge benefit to Epcot-area resort guests.

Obviously its expensive to extend the lines, but it seems like it would allow them to cut a large number of buses and simplify a lot of inter-WDW transportation.

Connecting Wilderness Lodge to the Contemporary/Polynesian/Floridian loop makes even more sense, but I can see where that might be problematic to do without a long disruption in monorail service to those resorts.

Have any of these expansions ever been contemplated? Or have they decided that it's just cheaper to lease buses regardless of the utility and icon status of monorails?

 

[skier_pete]

Yes, its been considered.

No, it'll never happen - as it is WAYYY too expensive. There wouldn't be a ton of operational costs savings, as the staff you would remove from the bus system would just have to be transferred to the monorail. The cost of the another monorail spur would probably run Disney in the HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.

 

[Disco]

Yeah,
It's not going to happen. Everybody would love to see the expansion of the Monorail but the busses are a lot cheaper and more versatile.
The only rail addition I could see them doing is maybe to the Hollywood Studios as it is right next to the Epcot leg. There is no chance you'll ever see them completing an entire loop to the AK.
It's a shame as the original plans for the Monorail were to link it to the Ontario airport. Boy did that project fall short.
The monorails are definately a part of the experiience that you have to ride evertime you go to DW. Too bad we don't feel the same about a bus.

 

[Cricket2]

Too bad we don't feel the same about a bus.

I've had many magical bus rides in the past.

 

[mobocracy]

Yes, its been considered.

No, it'll never happen - as it is WAYYY too expensive. There wouldn't be a ton of operational costs savings, as the staff you would remove from the bus system would just have to be transferred to the monorail. The cost of the another monorail spur would probably run Disney in the HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.

I'm sure the upfront costs for the monorail are huge, but the operational cost of the monorail has to be a lot cheaper. I'd bet they run through $100 worth of fuel per day on each bus, plus the cost of ongoing maintenance, insurance, licensing and so on. And those buses aren't cheap, I'd bet they run $150,000 per bus.

And you would only need about 1/3 of the number of monorail operators as you would bus drivers, since the monorail can carry far more passengers and you probably couldn't have more than 3 monorails running on an Epcot/Hollywood/AK loop anyway.

I'm sure the short-term savings are probably solidly in the buses favor, but it seems like long-term the monorail would be a qualitatively better investment, especially given its icon status at Disney.

 

[doconeill]

Bus has many advantages as well though...Run As Directed diversions, ability to reroute around stalled traffic, etc.

Can't do those things on a monorail beam...

Expansion would also require more trainsets, expanded maintenance facilities, etc.

 

[lovemickeyshouse]

I've had many magical bus rides in the past.

You must have had Stanley the funny bus driver he is a really funny driver and gave everyone on our bus a free pirates towel like thing

.

 

[Orange&BlueMonorail]

To coincide with everyone else on this one. The answer for expansion of the monorail is no.

Now the interesting thing is that much of the land needed to house monorail infrastructure is already in place. Example...If you take a look at the documents you sign when purchasing a Disney Vacation Club interest in Saratoga Springs you will notice that there is a monorail easement on that property that Disney has set aside to build on one day. But this is more of a false warning for a future never to come.

One of the biggest reason that you will never see a monorail expansion is that it is not a revenue generating attraction. It is not something that is going to pack the butts into the seats, so to speak, it just moves the butts from here to there.

I too greatly believe in the monorail. Stayed at Poly back in April 2009 absolutely LOVED it. Staying a week with out 3 year old, we never had to get in the car...ever (and we never rode the bus).

I would love to see the expansion, but it is never going to happen. Start up costs are too high for any finance person to approve. It's a shame, but's here's to hoping for a bus-less future at the House of Mouse.

 

[truck1]

Chances are youll never see the monorail extended for any number of reasons.If I had to guess the primary reason would be cost to build.Last I had heard and this was several years ago when I worked there, is that it would cost over 1 million dollars per mile to build the track, and 750 per hour per day per train per station to operate.Thats what the Contemp, the Poly and the Grand Flo was paying at the time.Id bet the price has gone up since then.Vs 70 per hour per bus.
Then and this is after talking to the monrail mechanics,and higher ups, theyd have to up date and most likely build a new monorail roundhouse, and then up date all of the trains. The exisiting 12, plus however many they buy new.I want to say that each train,last time they were built is 12 or 25 million a copy.
From what I understand, alot of the supports for the pillars are already inplace for the beams themselves.Id have to go back and look, but theres a few rooms at the WDW Swan and Dolphin that are supposed(read rumored) to be removed for the trains to pass thru, on the way to or from the DHS and Epcot.The EPCOT platform was made wide and bigger specifically to serve as a transfer station going to other points.

Alot also (this my opinion)has to do with the people in Cali that control the money.If who ever is in charge is against the monrail, they dont stand a chance.If that person is park friendly, the parks get a lot of money and freedom.It was rumored though I dont know how true it is, that Eisner hated the monorail and thats 1 reason they were never exapnded.

 

[doconeill]

The "$1 million per mile" thing is false. That would positively be CHEAP if it were only that much...

 

[jheigl]

I am probably in the vast minority, and I KNOW this would NEVER happen, but I would rather see the monorail extended to all of the parks (don't care much about the hotels) rather than big expansions of theme parks....like the Fantasyland Expansion and such....but maybe that's because I'm not a huge fan of thrill rides and stuff like that...I would rather see the scene and feel the ambience of stuff rather than ride coasters or spinny things or what not...I don't know, but I always feel that the "plan" is not complete because the monorail doesn't go to all the parks.

 

[marius97]

The "$1 million per mile" thing is false. That would positively be CHEAP if it were only that much...

I was living in Detroit when they built their People Mover...a "subway" like train that is on a raised track just like the monorail. This was probably late 80's. If my memory services me correctly, each section of track cost $1,000,000. Each section was just a matter of a hundred or two hundred feet. Granted the costs of going through a downtown are probably higher than going through a swamp, but that was also 20+ years ago.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I was living in Detroit when they built their People Mover...a "subway" like train that is on a raised track just like the monorail. This was probably late 80's. If my memory services me correctly, each section of track cost $1,000,000. Each section was just a matter of a hundred or two hundred feet. Granted the costs of going through a downtown are probably higher than going through a swamp, but that was also 20+ years ago.

Congratulations.. you have hit on the exact cost problem at Disney.

The swampy nature of just about all the land.

Monorail track pedestals have to be secured to a solid foundation (usually bedrock). Getting to bedrock in Florida isn't easy. And therefore it's expensive.

The other big issue is the amount of land Disney owns which they have set aside for 'nature reserve' or 'protected land'. Of course Disney could write itself a variance if the monorail had to pass thru that area. But there are some areas which Disney and Reedy Creek no longer have the final environmental say.. and that also complicates matters pretty significantly.

Any expansion of the monorail is - while technically very possible.. also financially quite prohibitive.

 

[troynkasey]

Here is a link with answers to your many questions...

http://www.yesterland.com/monoraillegends.html

Looks like the Dolphin/Swan talk is false and the cost of the monorail would be substantially higher han $1 million per mile...

 

[Oglet]

Probably the biggest obstacle in my opinion is the age of the current fleet of Monorails.

At sometime in the not to distant future the current fleet of trains are going to need to be replaced unless the team from extreme makeover monorail edition come and magically give them a complete overhaul. So figure in the original reported cost of each train 3.575 million x 12 and your looking at about 42 million 1989 dollars.

Throw in the possible cost of any station, shop or line modifications and that just tacks more onto the expense.

Just throwing an idea out there, what possibly could happen is this...

The current Fleet of 11 - 12 trains could be dropped down to 8 trains at some point and operate purely on the express/resort system only. Since parts are the biggest issue for the current fleet the 4 oldest trains could be canibalized and used to keep 8 good trains running for many more years.

The EPCOT loop would get new trains to go along with a new loop/s to other parks.

I don't think anyone many people would disagree with the proposal that EPCOT would be the new bug hub as the station was obviously built by someone high as a kite or with deliberate planing that it would eventually be expanded for this purpose due to its size. ( I like the think the later of the 2)

So somewhere close to EPCOT you would need to build a new monorail shop to house between 6 - 10 trains since its somewhat common to park trains at stations overnight which eliminates the need to house all the trains at shop overnight. (extras could later be parked at the MK Monorail shop)

Start with 4 or 5 trains that could run on the EPCOT/TTC loop and slowly add them to the system as new loops DHS and DAK open up.

Once you have the "New" system running the frankenmonorails that have been operating on the Resort/Express lines would have about come to the end of their operating life so replacing them and making all the changes needed to get the new trains running could be done.

These are just my crazy ideas

 

[zulemara]

from what I've read, it's not even the cost of adding, but the fact that the current trains can't even be upgraded without redoing the entire monorail system due to power requirements of the new trains being manufactured. We'll be lucky if they eventually upgrade instead of letting the current trains fall apart like they are doing right now.

 

[Lewisc]

This is the rumor board.

Prior to 9-11 there was a credible rumor (whatever that means) that Disney had a plan to extend the monorail for most resorts. But not really a monorail but light rail for most of route. Most of the track would be on the ground. Reduced bookings after 9-11 killed whatever (small) shot this plan had.

Another (sort of credible) rumor suggested Disney was considering following Unviersal's example. Build garages near DTD. Basically create a TTC near DTD. Light rail would take guests to/from the parks. Guests would have to walk through DTD to get from the garage to the transportation hub.

It's a shame Disney decided not to offer different transportation between AKL and AK. The lodge could have been built in a location that permitted a walking trail. It could have been built in a location that permitted building a canal and offering boat transportation.

Buses work better. Reasons already discussed in this thread.

 

[chartle]

Here's something else, people want the monorail to go to all the parks. Ok, but where are they going to come from.

If you extend the existing lines to DHS and AK it only benefits maybe 20%confused3) of the onsite guests and people hopping during the day.

How is everyone else going to get to the parks?

Do you expect them to take some sort of other transportation, like maybe a BUS, to some super TTC and transfer? What about the water parks and DTD and ESPN WWS?

People are suggesting that they scrap a flexible mostly point to point transportation system to an inflexable hybrid hub and spoke/point to point system where you may have to change vehicles 3 times to get where you want to go just for the extra magic.

Its like the thread where someone staying onsite wanted to take the ferry to the MK the first day to show their cousin the magic. Well the only way to do it was to take a bus to Epcot, monorail to TTC and then the ferry to the MK. Thats the kind of system bring proposed in the "Monorail to everywhere because thats what Walt wanted" camp.

 

[ShinjiMickey]

Kinda of weird this would be my first post, but as a long time follower of the boards, Disney, and of engineering I could not resist. I too have felt the same way about expanding the monorail, but as just about everyone has replied it is most likely cost related. The $1mil a mile price tag is very correct; I believe it was around $1.7mil a mile... BUT remember this is late 70's into the 80's money were talking about. In todays money yes, it would be hundreds of millions with new stations, trains, and crew. But I think they should at least finish a loop through boardwalk and DHS. It would be around a 5mile loop if even that... wishful thinking gotta love it!

 

[Oglet]

EPCOT Studios loop makes the most sense of anything with a stop/s at the Boardwalk hotel area. There would be a tremendous amount of guests who would be serviced by that route.

I would also Imagine the ease of getting on a Monorail and being able to get off and do some shopping, dining or whatever along the boardwalk area would be good for businesses around there and also potential exposure for future DVC purchases.

I talk to quite a few people each day at work and so many of them are amazed and surprised that they can actually get off at any resort and look around, shop etc. Alot of people things that these services are for resort only guests. Granted this lack of guest knowledge could be addressed in a cheaper way.