will the draft be reininstated?

[Crankyshank]

Actually not all women are smaller than men. I have a large bone structer and I am tall- I tower over many men. My husband served with many 5'2 110lb men and they did their job just fine

And to the people who say we're pushing for womens rights but arent willing to pay the piper... - Not all of us are pushing for womens rights. So speak for yourself.

So when are you moving to the middle east? Because if you want to turn back the women's movement then that's really the only place you're going to be able to live and not be able to: date, vote, work, own property, be educated, drive, or make any decisions other than what your father and husband (a husband your family chose for you) tells you to do.

Again I ask this- you do realize there are other jobs in the military you might be required to do if drafted, right? We've come a long way technologically and need a lot more people behind the scenes. It's not a guarantee that anyone drafted would be a tunnel rat or a target in a trench.

 

[N.Bailey]

I understand all you woman and men out there that feel women should pull their weight and not just sit back enjoying the pleasures that others have fought so hard so we could enjoy. I really do understand what you're saying, but in all honesty, I really don't think this country is ready for it. I really believe it would create a civil war here at home. Fathers are not ready to send their daughters off to war. Mothers are not ready, brothers are not ready, the sister is certainly not ready to go (for the most part) and grandparents certainly aren't going to sit idly by either. I could go on with aunts, uncles, even. If things got that bad where it was our only option for survival, I think opinion might change. Till we'd get near a time like that though, I don't see it. I also honestly believe any politician that would suggest such a thing would be gone ASAP!! If a woman wants to sign up however, I think she would have the full support of the country. I'm not saying this is, or isn't what I think should happen, but it's exactly what I believe would happen.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by Crankyshank


So when are you moving to the middle east? Because if you want to turn back the women's movement then that's really the only place you're going to be able to live and not be able to: date, vote, work, own property, be educated, drive, or make any decisions other than what your father and husband (a husband your family chose for you) tells you to do.

Again I ask this- you do realize there are other jobs in the military you might be required to do if drafted, right? We've come a long way technologically and need a lot more people behind the scenes. It's not a guarantee that anyone drafted would be a tunnel rat or a target in a trench.

You do realize that never in America were things as extreme as they are in the Middle East today, correct? Therefore your statement really doesn't have any weight. Granted women were not given the right to vote, some marriages were arranged and they didnt have equal pay, but they were never forced to cover themselves and treated with such disrespect as they are currently in the Middle East.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by jennyanydots
Are we that far behind the Israelis? You know how long Israeli women have been serving in the the IDF? I thought we were the most progressive country in the world. Guess I was wrong.

Since when is forcing people into the military progressive?

What an insult you have offered to the women who have enlisted in the armed forces and who are fighting for the right to be treated as equals.

Last time I checked, I wasn't insulting anyone. If ANYTHING I said that those who serve are stronger than I am, and actually said that they might be a better person than I am. I believe that might be the farthest thing possible from an insult.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Evil Princess
Last time I checked, I wasn't insulting anyone. If ANYTHING I said that those who serve are stronger than I am, and actually said that they might be a better person than I am. I believe that might be the farthest thing possible from an insult.

I admire the way you keep coming back to defend your position even though you've been insulted many times. In all honesty, I don't believe you're alone in your position. I feel your views express the sediment that the vast majority in this country would express if asked too.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
I really believe it would create a civil war here at home. Fathers are not ready to send their daughters off to war. Mothers are not ready, brothers are not ready, the sister is certainly not ready to go (for the most part) and grandparents certainly aren't going to sit idly by either.

You really shouldn't generalize by saying Fathers are not ready, etc., etc., etc. I'm a mother and a supporter of women being drafted. My husband is a father and he is a supporter. Really when posting an opinion I have found that it is best to say some or most rather than blanket statements of fathers, mothers, etc which could be viewed as speaking for all or having knowledge of how all fathers, mothers, brothers, etc. feel.

Like I said earlier, a discussion on including women in the draft will probably lead to a shelving of any draft because most politicians will be hard pressed to argue for men being drafted and women not. Folks keep falling back on the difference between men and women but women have been serving in the military successfully for many decades now. The military seems to have adapted to the difference quite easily- providing an environment in which women are paid and treated equally and fairly - some of folks in the general public should work as hard IMHO.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by ToriLammy
You really shouldn't generalize by saying Fathers are not ready, etc., etc., etc. I'm a mother and a supporter of women being drafted. My husband is a father and he is a supporter. Really when posting an opinion I have found that it is best to say some or most rather than blanket statements of fathers, mothers, etc which could be viewed as speaking for all or having knowledge of how all fathers, mothers, brothers, etc. feel.

Like I said earlier, a discussion on including women in the draft will probably lead to a shelving of any draft because most politicians will be hard pressed to argue for men being drafted and women not. Folks keep falling back on the difference between men and women but women have been serving in the military successfully for many decades now. The military seems to have adapted to the difference quite easily- providing an environment in which women are paid and treated equally and fairly - some of folks in the general public should work as hard IMHO.

I would certainly hope anyone reading my post would realize that was not a blanket statement to indicate that I believe every father, or every mother. If I offended anyone by not including that statement, I apologize, it certainly was not my intent.

I also believe that many woman could and I realize many do serve in our military and get along quite well. I'm not arguing that woman can't do a lot of the jobs. I'm sure there are some jobs some woman can't perform, but I'm sure they're the exception too. My point is, I do not believe this country as a whole (not every person or any person in particular) is ready to start bringing our mothers, daughters, sisters, grand daughters, & nieces home in body bags.

If you see things differently, all the more power to you, but I just don't share that philosophy. One day we might see who's views are closer to that of general public.

 

[MosMom]

I also believe that many woman could and I realize many do serve in our military and get along quite well. I'm not arguing that woman can't do a lot of the jobs. I'm sure there are some jobs some woman can't perform, but I'm sure they're the exception too. My point is, I do not believe this country as a whole (not every person or any person in particular) is ready to start bringing our mothers, daughters, sisters, grand daughters, & nieces home in body bags.

This is true. The media went wild over the capture/rescue of Jessica Lynch. If we didn't feel differently for women, it wouldn't have been such an issue.

I also have to agree with EvilPrincess. I don't feel forcing people into the military is all that progressive.

 

[GeorgeG]

Maybe some of you can remember the '60's when men (well, boys, actually) were burning their draft cards and women were burning their bras. I think we're still trying to find a balance in all that and probably will be for a few more generations.

There are plenty of military jobs that don't involve combat for both men and women. Many even parallel a lot of civilian jobs. Part of me is very old-fashioned and would agree women shouldn't be drafted. However, many women today want a career as opposed to being a stay-at-home housewife and mom. Either is admirable, but the way I see it, equal job opportunities and equal pay (whether realized or not) add up to equal military obligation.

Girls getting pregnant to avoid the draft is kinda like the soldier who shoots himself in the foot to get out of combat. A stupid thing to do!

Now, if everyone put as much energy into fighting the enemy as they do arguing these issues all wars would be over by now.

 

[jennyanydots]

The attitudes on this thread are just making me roll my eyes.

The consensus is that none of us really want the draft. we're not prepared to send our children into battle unless that's the path they choose.

But women have been servicng in the military for decades. I see no difference in drafting our daughters than in drafting our sons. And to draw such a distinction is an insult to every woman in uniform.

 

[Crankyshank]

since some of you mentioned that you wanted to set the women's movement back, all I did was point out a place where you could live where that's the case. Not all counties in the middle east are as extreme as Afghanistan, you know. Not every place requires a Burqa. But it's one of the few parts of the world nowadays where you're going to be able to live without the rights women acquired in the past 100 + years.

But women have been servicng in the military for decades. I see no difference in drafting our daughters than in drafting our sons. And to draw such a distinction is an insult to every woman in uniform.

ITA. It's insulting to me, especially as someone who works in a predominantly male field, that I'm thought to not be able to serve my country as well as a man.

There are plenty of military jobs that don't involve combat for both men and women. Many even parallel a lot of civilian jobs. Part of me is very old-fashioned and would agree women shouldn't be drafted. However, many women today want a career as opposed to being a stay-at-home housewife and mom. Either is admirable, but the way I see it, equal job opportunities and equal pay (whether realized or not) add up to equal military obligation.

Exactly my point, George, thank you.

The draft isn't going to be re-instated. Simply because there's no logical reason why women can't be drafted and no politician is going to risk re-election by proposing that women should be drafted. And then someone's going to sue because if men are going to be drafted, then so should women.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by jennyanydots
The attitudes on this thread are just making me roll my eyes.

The consensus is that none of us really want the draft. we're not prepared to send our children into battle unless that's the path they choose.

But women have been servicng in the military for decades. I see no difference in drafting our daughters than in drafting our sons. And to draw such a distinction is an insult to every woman in uniform.

Are you wearing a US uniform? Have you ever?

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Crankyshank
since some of you mentioned that you wanted to set the women's movement back, all I did was point out a place where you could live where that's the case. Not all counties in the middle east are as extreme as Afghanistan, you know. Not every place requires a Burqa. But it's one of the few parts of the world nowadays where you're going to be able to live without the rights women acquired in the past 100 + years.



ITA. It's insulting to me, especially as someone who works in a predominantly male field, that I'm thought to not be able to serve my country as well as a man.


Exactly my point, George, thank you.

The draft isn't going to be re-instated. Simply because there's no logical reason why women can't be drafted and no politician is going to risk re-election by proposing that women should be drafted. And then someone's going to sue because if men are going to be drafted, then so should women.

Are you wearing a US uniform? Have you ever? You want to send the woman to Iraq that are so against this so called movement, go ahead, knock your socks off, sign up to go fight on the front lines yourself!! As threecircles would say.....Kettle, you're black!

 

[cati]

xx

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Are you wearing a US uniform? Have you ever?

Why does it matter if she has or hasn't? She finds the attitude insulting and she can say that if she wants.

For the record, I did wear a uniform and have retired from my service in the US Air Force. I joined at the age of 17 back in 1978 at time when the military was still recovering from Vietnam and trying to make the adjustment to an all volunteer force. It was also a time when there were not that many women serving and they were still trying to figure it all out. I'm proud to say that in the years that I served they did figure it all out and I have yet to find a place in my civilian life were women are treated as equally and fairly as the US Air Force. It is one area of military life that a lot of civilian business and companies could definitely learn from IMHO.

 

[Crankyshank]

Not that it's any of your business, but I was rejected when I applied for enlistment. You don't have to wear a uniform to find sexist attitudes insulting.
and your point doesn't hold water unless there was a draft going on.

Even still, there are plenty of women that have been sent to Iraq and are doing an admirable job.
Tell me, why should an unwilling male be sent and not an unwilling female? How is ok to send your son and not your daughter?

I'm willing to serve my country if drafted to fight a war that I am against, because that's the price you pay for wanting to play on equal footing with the men. Because I would be insulting every woman that has ever worn a uniform or fought for a woman's rights if I ran off to Canada or got myself pregnant to avoid it.

All I asked for is actual legitimate reasons why a woman can serve in the military but women shouldn't be drafted. Instead of getting hysterical and resorting to name calling and accusing me of things I never said, how about answering the question?

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by ToriLammy
Why does it matter if she has or hasn't? She finds the attitude insulting and she can say that if she wants.

For the record, I did wear a uniform and have retired from my service in the US Air Force. I joined at the age of 17 back in 1978 at time when the military was still recovering from Vietnam and trying to make the adjustment to an all volunteer force. It was also a time when there were not that many women serving and they were still trying to figure it all out. I'm proud to say that in the years that I served they did figure it all out and I have yet to find a place in my civilian life were women are treated as equally and fairly as the US Air Force. It is one area of military life that a lot of civilian business and companies could definitely learn from IMHO.

Why does it matter? Well, it matters only because she feels that woman who don't support the war and hold the so called woman's movement back, and she thinks they should go live in Iraq. Well, if woman who aren't in the movement are suppose to move to Iraq, she should join the military!

 

[Crankyshank]

Why does it matter? Well, it matters only because she feels that woman who don't support the war and hold the so called woman's movement back, and she thinks they should go live in Iraq. Well, if woman who aren't in the movement are suppose to move to Iraq, she should join the military!

Now you're twisting words. I didn't tell them to go to Iraq. I said those who want to turn back the women's movement may want to go to live in the Middle East, where women don't have the same rights they do in the Westernized world. You do know there are other countries other than Iraq that are located in the Middle East, right?

And I never said that if you don't support the war, you're holding back the women's movement. For crying out loud, I don't support the war. There's a huge difference between believing women should be drafted along with men if there were a draft, and support of the war. Before you continue to slam me, how about actually applying reading comprehension to my posts.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Why does it matter? Well, it matters only because she feels that woman who don't support the war and hold the so called woman's movement back, and she thinks they should go live in Iraq. Well, if woman who aren't in the movement are suppose to move to Iraq, she should join the military!

That's not the message I saw in her messages but then I guess I read them differently. I have seen some messages that play to the stereotype of "weak women who need to be protected." I think those are silly myself.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Crankyshank
Not that it's any of your business, but I was rejected when I applied for enlistment. You don't have to wear a uniform to find sexist attitudes insulting.
and your point doesn't hold water unless there was a draft going on.

Even still, there are plenty of women that have been sent to Iraq and are doing an admirable job.
Tell me, why should an unwilling male be sent and not an unwilling female? How is ok to send your son and not your daughter?

I'm willing to serve my country if drafted to fight a war that I am against, because that's the price you pay for wanting to play on equal footing with the men. Because I would be insulting every woman that has ever worn a uniform or fought for a woman's rights if I ran off to Canada or got myself pregnant to avoid it.

All I asked for is actual legitimate reasons why a woman can serve in the military but women shouldn't be drafted. Instead of getting hysterical and resorting to name calling and accusing me of things I never said, how about answering the question?

Now, maybe you did try to enlist. I just seems to fall in line pretty well with this thread though. hmmmmmmmmmmm and it doesn't hold water without a draft? Well, I see no draft in effect, yet you think others should join the Iraqi woman in Burkas!

If I were ever drafted, I would proudly go NOT because I was out set the record straight as far as the woman's movement was concerned. I would do it to fight for a county that I love and that I believe in. I could personally care less about ANY woman's movement. Frankly, I think this movement hasn't been all wine and roses for the country. Sure, I like some of it, but we now live in a world where it's not possible for a lot of woman to stay home and raise their children if they choose to because they need the $ to just get by! Gone are the days of a one income family! Who suffers? Crime wasn't at the height it is today either. Granted, not all that is because of the women's movement, but I'm certain some of it is. So if this is important for all you feminists out there, march forward! It's not a cause a lot of us care about today.

and.....Show me once where I called you a name? I don't believe I did! Unless you consider being a black pot is name calling? I personally never thought it was the zillion times I've heard it used. I think all of your attacks against (and I don't mean just you) Evil Princess, was a little worse than anything anyone has said to you! Maybe you like to just dish it out?