Will the CDC extend the No Sail Order?

[ScooterScott44]

I agree but the virus doesn't care what is essential and what isn't. Regulation by the CDC should be done to help fight Covid, not to just help fight Covid on non-essential industries. Plus cruising is essential to the approx half million cruise industry employees.

So the difference is why those people are on those modes of transport. I have had to travel a number of times for work via the airlines during the last few months. Those trips were for medical necessity issues to assist Hospital facilities and that makes the trips essential. Getting on a ship to go “somewhere“ is not essential.

Yes, I agree there is an impact to the cruise business but that does not make the cruise essential. Navy and Coast Guard are essential, shipping and cargo are essential, but people out to look, eat and drink just to get away is not.

 

[T & R]

So the difference is why those people are on those modes of transport. I have had to travel a number of times for work via the airlines during the last few months. Those trips were for medical necessity issues to assist Hospital facilities and that makes the trips essential. Getting on a ship to go “somewhere“ is not essential.

The virus does not care why you are traveling. If there was a war on Covid, then the CDC would have regulations for more than just a sole industry. There is no explanation for no FAA or CDC requirement for masks on planes or airports. I've never sat 3 inches from a stranger on a cruise ship but have repeatedly on a plane. The only way to contain a virus would be to regulate all industries, not just one. As soon as you allow for some industries to be exempt because they are essential, you lose containment, which is why we have record high cases even with a cruise ban in place. I believe you cannot contain the virus with our current methodology making the necessity of a cruise ban futile.

 

[T & R]

Maybe the CDC should extend the ban to 09/15, everybody should be OK with that.

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

The virus does not care why you are traveling. If there was a war on Covid, then the CDC would have regulations for more than just a sole industry. There is no explanation for no FAA or CDC requirement for masks on planes or airports. I've never sat 3 inches from a stranger on a cruise ship but have repeatedly on a plane. The only way to contain a virus would be to regulate all industries, not just one. As soon as you allow for some industries to be exempt because they are essential, you lose containment, which is why we have record high cases even with a cruise ban in place. I believe you cannot contain the virus with our current methodology making the necessity of a cruise ban futile.

You really seem to overlook that cruising is in no way necessary for our society to function -- it is purely recreational. Yes masks should be required on planes (are they really not?) and in airports. But planes and that industry as a whole serves a vital function to our economy. Global commerce and millions of US jobs depends upon that industry.

If the entire cruising industry disappeared tomorrow, the impact on the US economy would be negligible. It is not-essential in any way shape or form. It has also shown to be a fantastic way for spreading diseases where you have many people in a relatively small shared space for an extended period of time. It's really not hard to understand why this industry is being scrutinized and impacted more than others.

Finally, i don't think the solution to the problem of losing containment on the virus that has ballooned lately is to therefore authorize even more dangerous activities. I believe we are shifting from containment to hopefully relatively modest spread that doesn't overwhelm our health care system but keeps the economy alive. The mantra in the US was always flatten the curve and keep the spread at levels that we can tolerate. Super-spreading events need to be curtailed. We all miss cruising, but most of us understand why it will not be back for quite some time.

 

[vegs1]

Exhibit A = No cruising in Florida since March yet we have record high infection in Florida today. The cruise industry only ban is a dismal failure and it's time for the CDC to make tough, not popular choices and focus on other industries than just cruising.

The cruise ban wasn’t meant to stop infections in Florida. It was meant to stop the spread on-board ships. Ships had to find ports that would allow them in.

Florida’s problems are caused by those not wearing masks, meeting in bars and on beaches in groups and not following guidelines in general.

 

[T & R]

You really seem to overlook that cruising is in no way necessary for our society to function

We're getting caught up in what is essential and what isn't. All I'm saying is that when it comes to a pandemic, essential or not is irrelevant. If whatever protocols you put in place are not spanned equally among all, it will fail. For the good of us all, I would like to see the CDC branch out beyond cruising. Why not require masks on planes, why not require middle row seats to be empty, why not require masks at airports where millions file through, etc., etc.. To date they have left that up to the airlines to self regulate which means if you have people on a plane fail to wear a mask, all you can ding them for is putting them on the airline's no fly list because they haven't technically broken an FAA or CDC mask rule because there isn't one. The FAA/CDC, at will and without question, can require any safety measures they want aboard a plane. The argument that air travel is essential is irrelevant, the virus does not stay on it's side of the airline's seat because you a traveling for work and not pleasure.

Another problem is the optics of it all. It just doesn't look right when you only take action against a single industry. If the CDC is going to keep doing endless ban renewals on just one industry, they're going to have to start showing cause, otherwise it looks like you are singling out a sole industry to bankrupt. For example, if you are speeding one mile an hour over the speed limit, could you technically get a ticket, yes. When in court, the officer would have to articulate that he/she writes a ticket to everyone going one mile over the limit and not just you. When it comes out in court that in the officer's decades long career, he/she only wrote you a ticket for going one mile over the limit, then it crosses the line to singling you out. That is the issue with the cruise industry ban, they are being singled out and every other industry on the planet is excluded from CDC wrath. There is no evidence to back up the claim that banning cruising has had any positive effect on Covid spread and the "that's what we think is best" rule by decree should not continue for a third round of bans without at least some CDC action against other high risk industries. With record high Covid spread, the singling out cruising has been a failure and only proven that it's other industries that have had a more severe impact on Covid spread than cruising, yet to date every other industry on the planet is untouched and unmentioned by the CDC.

 

[vegs1]

it’s not about getting caught up in anything. You asked why the CDC singles out cruising. Cruising is not essential. That is why. Other modes of transportation must be deemed that way in their eyes.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The bottom line is that the CDC has jurisdiction for cruise ship travel, and they don't for a lot of other stuff.

 

[T & R]

Cruising is not essential. That is why. Other modes of transportation must be deemed that way in their eyes.

Yes and not only other modes of transportation but everything other than cruising must also be deemed that way in their eyes. We've had governor after governor and state after state close specific businesses stating they were high risk and the cause of Covid spread but not a peep from CDC on these industries other than cruising. My only guess is because the way the CDC is funded. In addition to the government, the CDC receives a large portion of funding via their CDC Foundation 501(c)(3) which is contributions from companies and industries. This creates a huge conflict of interest in a situation like this when you're all of the sudden tasked with possibly shutting down or severely limiting these companies that fund your budget ability to operate and make money. You know the old saying, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. This may help explain why the CDC has not taken action on any other industry.

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

We're getting caught up in what is essential and what isn't. All I'm saying is that when it comes to a pandemic, essential or not is irrelevant. If whatever protocols you put in place are not spanned equally among all, it will fail.

This is where we just fundamentally disagree. Want to stop a pandemic -- force everyone to stay home for two weeks. Period. No exceptions. For what I hope are obvious reasons, that's not possible. Health care workers need to keep going to work. Our agriculture needs to continue. The food supply needs to be maintained. Infrastructure, trucking, etc.

Now, in additional to essential things that we (mostly) all can agree need to keep going regardless of a pandemic, most people understand we need to strike a balance to keep the economy from flat-lining. Striking that balance is probably the most controversial. Cruising provides almost zero lift to the US economy, is nothing but recreational (the opposite of essential), and is an easy environment for a virus to spread.

Please don't misunderstand me -- I'm deeply saddened by the cruises I've had to miss thanks to COVID -- but I fully understand why cruising has come to a stop and will be stopped for the foreseeable future.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Yes and not only other modes of transportation but everything other than cruising must also be deemed that way in their eyes.

I was under the impression that the cruising industry, while it utilizes US ports, is not a US company. Also that the closures of ports had to do with not wanting a ship with the virus showing up and, basically, dumping 3000+ people who now require medical treatment, housing, etc. into an environment that's already overtaxed caring for the people who actually live there.

Once the cruising industry comes up with a plan on how to handle this situation, things may, or may not, change.

 

[rodbates0322]

Honestly I would be nervous to cruise again for a while, not because of the virus but the quarantine a ship can go through if someone does get sick. I miss pre-covid

 

[BartmanLA]

Focusing on whether or not the Cruise industry is being singled out based solely on a mask requirement is woefully lacking in scope, as others have said here, other transportation industries are obviously essential, and necessary to keep the population from starving, or dying from lack of ability for important front line workers from being able to travel. And as far as I know MOST (I haven't verified) U.S. domestic airlines are requiring passengers and crew to wear face coverings while on board planes so that point is again moot. The singular issue with cruising is that it is a "recreational" activity, thus NON essential, as is currently the norm, travel between international borders (flights and road travel) that is considering non essential (not for commercial cargo or food) is prohibited in and out of the U.S. right now. So until they re-open international travel and the ports that most cruises visit on their itineraries re-open (not just one or two but ALL) resuming cruising is really not important enough to risk the crews and passengers for any cruise line to take. I know there are some European cruise lines that will resume cruising at the end of this month or shortly after, but they've mitigated their spread of the virus on ways that the U.S. hasn't been able to do, which includes requiring citizens to wear masks, effect hygienic practices and remain in lockdown in ways that many here in the U.S. have simply refused to do. When you have a state recording 15,000+ new infections in a single day, resumption of a leisure industry in that state simply doesn't make any kind of realistic sense. If the CDC extends the order it is likely because they feel it has to in order to try to keep infections from being spread on board among passengers that could potentially spread it at foreign ports, amongst themselves and then potentially world wide again.

 

[John VN]

 

[STH Cruising]

The original post asked the question “will the CDC extend its no sail order?” Reality is none of us know! We have many opinions from late fall to late 2021 to when a vaccine is readily available. And we have had extended discussion on subsidiary topics such as essential v non-essential travel (by the way, is Disney World essential?), masks and a few other issues that create strong and differing opinions. The moderator on another well followed social media site has essentially banned speculation as it leads to endless, and sometimes negative debate. That site only allows facts from government or industry sources (the cruise industry association or Disney Cruise Lines). to be posted.

Personally, I am disappointed the CDC has not been more public in where they are in developing cruise industry recommendations. I have read the recommendations from the European equivalent of the CDC. DCL recently surveyed passengers for potential sailing options, and I saw an excellent presentation by the CEO of Virgin Voyages (a former DCL CFO then CEO) on how they will address cruising during a pandemic. Yet, nothing from the CDC.

We have four cruises booked over the next year, starting in November 2020. I keep my expectations relatively low, and really don’t know which will be the first cruise to sail. Whenever that is, we hope to be ready. What I really appreciate, is that if we are not ready, Disney Cruise Lines has been very flexible in their cancellation policies. If come November, they are ready (and I have no idea if they will be or not), if we are not for whatever reason, we can drop the sailing just 15 days before the sail date. That gives me some financial peace while we await sailing again.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I am disappointed the CDC has not been more public in where they are in developing cruise industry recommendations.

The original restriction says:
This order ceases operations of cruise ships in waters in which the United States may exert jurisdiction and requires that they develop a comprehensive, detailed operational plan approved by CDC and the USCG to address the COVID-19 pandemic through maritime focused solutions, including a fully implementable response plan with limited reliance on state, local, and federal government support. These plans would help prevent, mitigate, and respond to the spread of COVID-19, by:

• monitoring of passengers and crew medical screenings;
• training crew on COVID-19 prevention;
• managing and responding to an outbreak on board; and
• submitting a plan to USCG and CDC for review

It appears to say that the cruise lines need to develop a plan that fulfills the specific details listed. And that such plans must be submitted to, and approved by, the CDC and USCG before lifting the restrictions.

It's not on the CDC to come up with the plans, it's on the cruise industry.

 

[jcbftw]

We've had this CDC argument in multiple threads. As somebody else said in one of those, everybody's made their point and nobody is going to change their minds, so it's probably best to just move on.

 

[T & R]

Agreed.

Back to topic, renewing a CDC cruise ban until 09/15 should satisfy all parties since CLIA self imposed a ban until then anyway. Hopefully they can hammer out something by then. I really need them to hammer out something prior to October, just saying.

 

[braycon]

This conversation is exhausting.

 

[vegs1]

I agree. And it’s in so many threads.